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NFL - UK Broadcasting Thread
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ukdude7
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by Regis Magnae:
“I think it shows the reality of how (un)popular the sport is in the UK.

It reminds me of how F1's popularity was regularly vastly overstated 10 years ago, when a person watching the news coverage was counted as a fan.”

Without a doubt NFLuk overstate how popular it is and so do many others in the media with a vested interest/lazy journalism. The NFL funded Deloitte research figures of 13 million fans, 3 million avid fans is as close to reality as the recent turnout of 99.97 in the North Korea elections.

Mark Waller (NFL VP International) was trying to claim last year that NFL games on Sky get an average audience of 400k on the Pro Football Talk podcast (according to Barb it doesn't even get a quarter of that). Channel 4 live Wembley games struggled to get that. Such bare faced 'truth stretching'.

FTA TV coverage is really where the rubber meets the road. The only content on FTA from the NFL that will outperform it's usual time slot is the Super Bowl. NFL viewing has not increased in the last five years in the UK. Sport England figures released this summer show a decrease in participation in the sport. And the Yougov profiler that went live this year showed roughly 900,000 (over 16s) would claim to be some type of NFL fan.

Unless they can get the BBC to show part of the FTA package like before and also have one of the main channels pick up SNF (which seems a harder sell) then it has to be seen as a body blow to their popularity claims.

Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“ If I had to pick a likely FTA candidate I would probably go for ITV 4 with some programming (Superbowl and some Wembley coverage) on ITV.”

Yeah I agree though any Wembley coverage may be pushed to ITV4 this year because of Rugby World Cup clashes.

I still think BBC Sport won't be able to resist adding Super Bowl 50 for free to their threadbare Sports cupboard.
pad_ehh
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by walterwhite:
“Has there been any confirmation other than Vernon Kaye's twitter?”

As Vernon works for Channel 4 presenting an NFL programme, I think we can safely assume that he is telling the truth. Otherwise, why would he say it and bring himself in for flak if it turned out not to be true?
Dancc
29-07-2015
Broadcast are reporting it today, quoting a C4 spokesperson.

http://m.broadcastnow.co.uk/5091036.article
ukdude7
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by Dancc:
“Broadcast are reporting it today, quoting a C4 spokesperson.

http://m.broadcastnow.co.uk/5091036.article”

What does the spokesperson say? (haven't got a subscription to it)
Radiomike
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by ukdude7:
“What does the spokesperson say? (haven't got a subscription to it)”

All it says is that C4 and NFL have been unable to agree a deal for the coming season.
ukdude7
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“All it says is that C4 and NFL have been unable to agree a deal for the coming season.”

Thanks, wonder if that means they were interested in keeping it on the right terms or whether I'm reading to much into wording that doesn't mean much.
mavreela
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“Some of your recollection is incorrect.”

No it is not.

The issue in 2006 was a failure to reach an agreement between Setanta, then the operator of NASN, and EPSN. This has nothing to do with the changed ESPN made after acquiring the channel in 2007 that I was mentioning.

In 2010 ESPN UK signed a two-year deal to show MNF, which therefore gave the channel the right to show other programming feature NFL content. This deal was not renewed, so for the 2012 season games moved to BBC Red Button and they were once again no longer able to show NFL content.

My original point which you questioned was that ESPN not showing NFL support programming was "Absolutely nothing to do with Sky. NASN used to pay for the rights to include NFL support programming. Once ESPN took over they decided to stop paying for the rights."

So I stand by saying that after buying the channel in 2007, ESPN decided not to acquire for the highlight rights that NASN previously held and which would have allowed them to show other NFL programmes.

The only time they were able to show those programmes was simply as a by-product of the live rights. And clearly the NFL was not a valuable enough "logical fit" given they never renewed the live rights, or replaced them with highlight rights.

It seems baffling anyone would think that if Sky cared they much, and had that much power, they would prevent a rival being able to air niche lower rated support programming yet would allow them to show live games.
Radiomike
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by mavreela:
“No it is not.

The issue in 2006 was a failure to reach an agreement between Setanta, then the operator of NASN, and EPSN. This has nothing to do with the changed ESPN made after acquiring the channel in 2007 that I was mentioning.

In 2010 ESPN UK signed a two-year deal to show MNF, which therefore gave the channel the right to show other programming feature NFL content. This deal was not renewed, so for the 2012 season games moved to BBC Red Button and they were once again no longer able to show NFL content.

My original point which you questioned was that ESPN not showing NFL support programming was "Absolutely nothing to do with Sky. NASN used to pay for the rights to include NFL support programming. Once ESPN took over they decided to stop paying for the rights."

So I stand by saying that after buying the channel in 2007, ESPN decided not to acquire for the highlight rights that NASN previously held and which would have allowed them to show other NFL programmes.

The only time they were able to show those programmes was simply as a by-product of the live rights. And clearly the NFL was not a valuable enough "logical fit" given they never renewed the live rights, or replaced them with highlight rights.

It seems baffling anyone would think that if Sky cared they much, and had that much power, they would prevent a rival being able to air niche lower rated support programming yet would allow them to show live games.”

I never intended or meant to refer to the 2006/7 scenario that you have outlined. I wasn't even aware of that earlier issue until you mentioned it.

My comments were aimed at the 2012 scenario that led to ATH and PTI being truncated in the UK because of the inability to show clips from various sports that featured in the US version of those programmes (not just NFL clips) and the loss of Sunday NFL Countdown etc.

NFL coverage would seem to be a logical fit for BT Sport in terms of the sport itself but clearly there are other factors at play, notably Sky's long term connection with the NFL and its more dominant position with the sport in the UK as a result. I suspect that BT Sport (and ESPN America before it) would be/have been interested if they could get rather more coverage than currently/previously available to them.

For the record i'd be perfectly happy for SNF to be on Sky, BT Sport, Eurosport, BBC, ITV or C5 or indeed any other channel I have access to. And obviously i'd love to see Sunday NFL Countdown return to our screens even though I don't see that happening. I will be interested to see what Sky's pre game coverage will be this year for both the Thursday and Monday games.
mavreela
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“My comments were aimed at the 2012 scenario that led to ATH and PTI being truncated in the UK because of the inability to show clips from various sports that featured in the US version of those programmes (not just NFL clips) and the loss of Sunday NFL Countdown etc”

The reason for loosing all clips is that it is not worth the cost of having a separate version produced just for the UK based on the rights held in the UK.

However there was an online version produced for ESPN.com that did not feature any clips, so they simply broadcast that version here. No clips for any sport, but the full programmes aired.

Then at some point ESPN.com stopped offering the programmes as free video. I cannot remember precisely when, around 2010 maybe? So the online version was no longer produced and they had to edit the US broadcast to remove footage. This unfortunately meant removing whole topics as I guess they were unwilling to show a static image.

(The online version of ATH showed Reali speaking to camera as he narrated over the video, but if I remember correctly on PTI they showed a programme logo over the clips.)
RobSmithS
29-07-2015
At about 8pm this evening a fan twitter account called @pigskinpodcast tweeted this:

Quote:
“Pigskin Podcast
‏@PigskinPodcast
ICYMI the BBC have picked up CH4s Nfl package. No idea about presenters, channel or total output though #nfluk”

https://twitter.com/PigskinPodcast/s...67792200597504
popeye13
29-07-2015
Back to SD red button then.....
NOT a chance BBC Two will be used! (Be nice if they did but not a chance!!)
JCR
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“Back to SD red button then.....
NOT a chance BBC Two will be used! (Be nice if they did but not a chance!!)”

Makes no sense at all for NFL to want it moved onto red button if C4 still wanted it.
popeye13
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by JCR:
“Makes no sense at all for NFL to want it moved onto red button if C4 still wanted it.”

Guess that C4 wanted to do something different, maybe move it to More4 or E4 even and wanting money too?
BBC were perhaps where the NFL went to with free offer as the BBC would always say yes!
Regis Magnae
29-07-2015
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“Back to SD red button then.....
NOT a chance BBC Two will be used! (Be nice if they did but not a chance!!)”

A real pain the ass. I recorded Channel 4 and avoided the result until I could watch it later in the day.
WhoAteMeDinner
30-07-2015
Furious at this news, here in Ireland we can't get Channel 5 on any provider, (never cared except when they had the NFL before 2010).

Channel 5 are odds on to get the rights back as they now have a US media giant owner. Goodbye again NFL.

Channel 4 only interested in gamblers crack cocaine: horse racing, not a sport and deeply unethical.
malcy30
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by popeye13:
“Guess that C4 wanted to do something different, maybe move it to More4 or E4 even and wanting money too?
BBC were perhaps where the NFL went to with free offer as the BBC would always say yes!”

I can see C4 may have wanted to move it to More4 which they did with an hour to play for the Wembley games when they were in the evening, as they may have felt repeats of mainstream shows could have got a bigger audience on C4.

May also have been how much would NFL pay to have games on C4 so not just free rights but part funding the studio show. If earlier posts are correct they have done this in the past for C5 and BBC.

If the NFL have moved to the BBC is a smart move by both sides as the BBC get free sport and NFL the largest potential FTA audience. I have posted here before that other minority sports should follow this model and the BBC could then walk away from the crazy money football demands.
samburrows
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by WhoAteMeDinner:
“Furious at this news, here in Ireland we can't get Channel 5 on any provider, (never cared except when they had the NFL before 2010).

Channel 5 are odds on to get the rights back as they now have a US media giant owner. Goodbye again NFL.

Channel 4 only interested in gamblers crack cocaine: horse racing, not a sport and deeply unethical.”

Hang on - did you not see the three posts before yours which stated the BBC had now picked this up?
Radiomike
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by samburrows:
“Hang on - did you not see the three posts before yours which stated the BBC had now picked this up?”

It remains to be seen whether the source of this is reliable or accurate though - no announcement from NFL UK, NFL, BBC etc to back up the claim.
ukdude7
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“It remains to be seen whether the source of this is reliable or accurate though - no announcement from NFL UK, NFL, BBC etc to back up the claim.”

Doing some digging around on Twitter and it looks like this guy behind the podcast Twitter handle actually works for the BBC so I reckon it'll be pretty reliable with his sources.
samburrows
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“It remains to be seen whether the source of this is reliable or accurate though - no announcement from NFL UK, NFL, BBC etc to back up the claim.”

Yes I agree, but it's a fair old jump to the assumption that it was defaulting to Channel 5!
Radiomike
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by ukdude7:
“Doing some digging around on Twitter and it looks like this guy behind the podcast Twitter handle actually works for the BBC so I reckon it'll be pretty reliable with his sources.”

Well if he is right I hope the BBC put the SNF coverage on BBC One (which would only be simulcasting BBC News Channel at that time anyway) or BBC Two - and in HD!!! They can then repeat it on the Red Button channel to their heart's content but the primary coverage needs to be on one of the main channels.
Dancc
30-07-2015
I doubt NFL will reappear on C5 - they lease out hours overnight to telegambling outfit Supercasino and this deal was only just recently extended.

ITV has a similar deal with Jackpotjoy, so the BBC is the only real option. The downside of that will be cheap as chips presentation, no more Mike Carlson, and no HD if it's stuck behind the red button which it very likely will be. An all round downgrade on the service C4 were providing.

So what were these terms the C4 and NFL couldn't agree on I wonder?
Dancc
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by Radiomike:
“Well if he is right I hope the BBC put the SNF coverage on BBC One (which would only be simulcasting BBC News Channel at that time anyway) or BBC Two - and in HD!!! They can then repeat it on the Red Button channel to their heart's content but the primary coverage needs to be on one of the main channels.”

The last time NFL was on the BBC the presentation was literally done on a shoestring. It looked awful quite frankly. There is absolutely no way it will be on either BBC One or BBC Two unless they will be broadcasting from a studio as opposed to a cupboard this time.
Radiomike
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by Dancc:
“The last time NFL was on the BBC the presentation was literally done on a shoestring. It looked awful quite frankly. There is absolutely no way it will be on either BBC One or BBC Two unless they will be broadcasting from a studio as opposed to a cupboard this time.”

Yes, the worry would be (if it does go to BBC) that all they are really interested in is live coverage of the Superbowl, the Wembley games and play off highlights. SNF would be an afterthought - a necessary evil to get those games. However, if that were to be their attitude then i'd sooner they just got the Superbowl and Wembley games and the NFL gave SNF to someone who actually wants it. For the moment i'm prepared to give the BBC the benefit of the doubt - despite historic precedent!!
ukdude7
30-07-2015
Originally Posted by Dancc:
“So what were these terms the C4 and NFL couldn't agree on I wonder?”

I wonder if C4 refused to commit to showing the Wembley games live on Channel 4. They (with some NFL help) threw the kitchen sink at them last year - a Sunday Brunch NFL themed episode pre Lions v Falcons - and still they under performed their timeslots. This year they'll be up against the Rugby World Cup, one of them is streamed for free on Yahoo and all will probably be up against big (the top 5) Premier League match ups (if they're moved to Sunday KOs).

Them dropping SNF is more of a head scratcher unless the NFL broke off negotiations because without live Wembley games broadcast commitment they'd probably rather have the possibility of showing the Super Bowl/Wembley highlights post MOTD2 on BBC1. The biggest Super Bowl audience (in this second popularity wave) was the two years it was on BBC 1. Since then it's almost halved.
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