DS Forums

 
 

4K Blu Ray Standard Confirmed


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-09-2014, 12:30
Iqbal_M
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,052

http://www.avforums.com/news/4k-ultr...med-2015.10665

Good news.
Iqbal_M is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 06-09-2014, 14:52
tony-w
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 455
Cool, I can now dump all my DVD's out in the garage (to keep the old VHS tapes company) and go an purchase yet another new format to keep up with the Jonses :sarcasm:

Seriously though, 4K does look incredible, my friend is an avid snowboarder and has the bluray of "The Art Of Flight" (which was shot on Red 4K cameras).,
When played on a native 1080P TV the footage,colours and depth is abundantly obvious.
Youtube link to the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh29_SERH0Y

Last edited by tony-w : 06-09-2014 at 14:55. Reason: general tidy up
tony-w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 15:11
grimtales1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Albans, UK, Team Wagner
Posts: 42,866
Wouldnt watching a 4K BD on a "normal" 1080p TV not give you the full benefit of better image quality
grimtales1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 16:22
tony-w
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 455
Yes, that is true, but the bluray was shot using 4K cameras, so even though it was down scaled to 1080P (bluray) there was much more detail in the source (4 times as many pixels), which equates to better quality, at least perceivable quality anyway.

The same applies to converting TV recordings.
You will achieve better results converting a HDTV 1080i recording to web compatible than you would from converting the same programme from a SDTV 576i recording.
tony-w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 16:33
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,782
Wouldnt watching a 4K BD on a "normal" 1080p TV not give you the full benefit of better image quality
Obviously not - you've only got normal HD resolution.

What it WILL do though is give you a slightly better picture than a normal BD, simply because it's a higher quality source.

You get the same effect watching HD channels on a non-HD set, obviously you don't get any higher resolution, but because the source is better so is the resultant picture.

I've always considered that HD on a non-HD set gives you what SD is supposed to look like, and likewise 4K on a normal HD set will give you what HD is supposed to look like (once 4K players and discs appear of course).
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 21:28
soulboy77
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Herts
Posts: 17,003
Do people still buy films on discs?
soulboy77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 21:48
grahamlthompson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 17,289
Do people still buy films on discs?
What a stupid post. Basically you are stating you either illegally get this content, or you do not care about the quality of the video and audio quality.

Those of us you have a good quality AV amplifier with decent speakers and a decent display know that there is no comparison.

Frankly if no one bought any films on disk they would not be on sale, They are so your post is ridiculous,

If you are watching on a HD TV and using a legal streaming source then you are totally missing the point. Get a quality Audio source and a good display, then the picture and audio will be way better than you can get from any illlegal source.

Blu-ray is superior in both picture quality and audio than anything you can get from a broadcast source.

If you don't know this then I guess you have a el cheapo TV, with a poor picture and really poor audio.

Are you a pirate or simply a punter that does not have a clue ?

So to answer your bizarre question - Yes I buy optical discs ( only Blu-ray and for content that I know I will want to see again). I rather doubt I am alone )
grahamlthompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 01:56
d'@ve
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Darn Sarf
Posts: 28,726
Obviously not - you've only got normal HD resolution.

What it WILL do though is give you a slightly better picture than a normal BD, simply because it's a higher quality source.

You get the same effect watching HD channels on a non-HD set, obviously you don't get any higher resolution, but because the source is better so is the resultant picture.

I've always considered that HD on a non-HD set gives you what SD is supposed to look like, and likewise 4K on a normal HD set will give you what HD is supposed to look like (once 4K players and discs appear of course).
Agreed, and it applies to good quality HD Ready sets as well, e.g the 1024 x 768 Panasonic plasmas. Full HD loses out to the compromised bitrate; so full HD downscaled onto HD Ready and SD TVs are closer to Full HD in overall perceived quality than they should be. Downscaled UHD broadcasts should do much the same for a full HD TV: improve the picture slightly over an equivalent HD broadcast.

And of course 4K Blu-Ray content displayed on a good quality full HD TV should look slightly better than the HD Blu-Ray version.
d'@ve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 02:29
FIFA1966
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,078
What about HDMI?

Obviously HDMI will not be able to cope with the amount of data needed to transfer a 4K signal from a 4K box to a 4K TV.
FIFA1966 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 08:29
Deacon1972
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,103
What about HDMI?

Obviously HDMI will not be able to cope with the amount of data needed to transfer a 4K signal from a 4K box to a 4K TV.
HDMI has no problem coping with 4k standard at present.

HDMI 2.0 supports 4K (2160p) 50 and 60 FPS, 3D playback at 4K resolution, up to **32 audio channels (up from eight), an interesting feature called "dynamic auto lip-sync” this has the ability to deliver dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen, max throughput is 18Gbps (up from 10Gbps).

What we don't know is will HDMI cope with 120FPS which could be the revised standard in UHD phase 2, it may mean another connection type all together.

**Opens up the door for Dolby Atmos, which will certainly be included on 4k Bluray as it is just about to be included on Bluray. I wonder how many will be able to get this new format passed their partner.
Deacon1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 08:35
2shy2007
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 40,757
Do people still buy films on discs?
How else are you supposed to buy them???
2shy2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 08:46
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,782
What about HDMI?

Obviously HDMI will not be able to cope with the amount of data needed to transfer a 4K signal from a 4K box to a 4K TV.
Nothing 'obvious' about it

The cables work OK, but obviously the sockets on non-4K items (TV's or sources) aren't likely to be compatible.

Presumably the 4K BD spec. will include either a separate 'normal' HD HDMI socket, or a socket that can be set (manually or automatically?) to work with either - and the player will obviously downscale accordingly.
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 09:11
Deacon1972
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,103
How else are you supposed to buy them???
Digital copies from iTunes or Amazon.
Deacon1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 10:00
Deacon1972
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,103
Nothing 'obvious' about it

The cables work OK, but obviously the sockets on non-4K items (TV's or sources) aren't likely to be compatible.

Presumably the 4K BD spec. will include either a separate 'normal' HD HDMI socket, or a socket that can be set (manually or automatically?) to work with either - and the player will obviously downscale accordingly.
Why do you think there will be the need for separate HDMI's or a manual/auto setting?

Surely whatever data/information is present will simply be transfered and decoded accordingly, just as it is now with the various resolutions/HDMI standards we currently have.

It's just another HDMI version, 2.0 supports up to 4k, it's not exclusive. If a BD player is connected to a device that is not same version, support for the lowest version is only passed through, that's how it works now, I can't see any reason why it won't work the same for HDMI 2.0 and 4k.
Deacon1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 12:07
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,782
Why do you think there will be the need for separate HDMI's or a manual/auto setting?

Surely whatever data/information is present will simply be transfered and decoded accordingly, just as it is now with the various resolutions/HDMI standards we currently have.
Because existing non-4K TV's are unlikely to be able to accept 4K signals, and will presumably just display "out of range" as they do for any 'odd' HDMI signals.

Most TV specs. specifically list exactly what HDMI resolutions they will accept, and 4K isn't one of them.


It's just another HDMI version, 2.0 supports up to 4k, it's not exclusive. If a BD player is connected to a device that is not same version, support for the lowest version is only passed through, that's how it works now, I can't see any reason why it won't work the same for HDMI 2.0 and 4k.
Which would be 'auto-switching' as I suggested

Manual switching would be another option, and is likely to be a menu option just as it is with BD - the problem been of course that if you're on the wrong resolution you won't be able to see the menus (for this reason many BD players have a 'output resolution' button on the handset).
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 12:14
gomezz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Buckingham
Posts: 28,534
If thought HDMI negogiated what resolutions are available and usable as standard? So a 4K Blu-ray player would automatically know not to offer 4K to a non-4K TV.
gomezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 12:23
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,782
If thought HDMI negogiated what resolutions are available and usable as standard? So a 4K Blu-ray player would automatically know not to offer 4K to a non-4K TV.
Which, as I suggested, would be 'auto-switching'

However, BD players don't (or at least didn't) do this - and you often had to find a way to switch it to a lower resolution without been able to see the menu (which is how I found out about the button on the handset - but only after hunting down a 1080P set first ).
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 12:26
gomezz
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Buckingham
Posts: 28,534
Don't they? Or just some makes? Fairly sure my old Pioneer sorted it out without manual intervention (sorting out the audio to my AV amp was another ball game altogether).
gomezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 12:29
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,782
Don't they? Or just some makes? Fairly sure my old Pioneer sorted it out without manual intervention (sorting out the audio to my AV amp was another ball game altogether).
The point is, doing it or not, is still 'auto-switching' which I suggested - and certainly on BD there was no reliable switching across multiple makes and models.

Presumably you've set-up a BD Player?, didn't it ask you to select the resolution of your set? - along with a message that if the screen blanks out (due to a non-supported mode) it will return to the old setting in xx seconds?

EDIT: Quick thought, if your set would accept 1080P, then there's nothing to sort out - as it would accept all BD modes. The problems were only with 1080i only sets.
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 15:30
grahamlthompson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Redditch Worcs
Posts: 17,289
Digital copies from iTunes or Amazon.
You will need fast broadband and a truly unlimited service to download movies with file sizes around 50GB. I my maths is correct a 50mbps download service will give about 6MB/sec. To get 50000MB will take about 8000secs (Over 2hrs).
grahamlthompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 15:56
Deacon1972
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,103
Because existing non-4K TV's are unlikely to be able to accept 4K signals, and will presumably just display "out of range" as they do for any 'odd' HDMI signals.

Most TV specs. specifically list exactly what HDMI resolutions they will accept, and 4K isn't one of them.



Which would be 'auto-switching' as I suggested

Manual switching would be another option, and is likely to be a menu option just as it is with BD - the problem been of course that if you're on the wrong resolution you won't be able to see the menus (for this reason many BD players have a 'output resolution' button on the handset).
I took your manual/auto switch as a means to switch between the two HDMI outputs which you suggested 4k BD players might have. So you where referring to manual/auto resolution setting?

Players should only require one HDMI output, resolution settings/compatibility should be set from the player as they are now - I don't think it needs to be anymore complicated than that.

So we could see something like 720p/1080i/1080p/4k in the video settings.

Not seen any mention of disc storage yet, any guesses?
Deacon1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 16:34
d'@ve
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Darn Sarf
Posts: 28,726
You will need fast broadband and a truly unlimited service to download movies with file sizes around 50GB. I my maths is correct a 50mbps download service will give about 6MB/sec. To get 50000MB will take about 8000secs (Over 2hrs).
Streaming or progressive download, starting to watch immediately like Sky downloads, should do the trick.

Not much improvement in compression is needed to achieve that, with 50Mbps and above download speeds (for those who have it available). Well below that is a feasible connection speed for people willing to wait for a short while to buffer before starting to watch.

So in a few years time, I'd expect high quality 4K/UHD 1 to be fairly widely available to watch online at higher quality than Youtube's (and Netflix's?) current 4K offerings at ~20Mbps. This is why 4K Blu Ray will not do anywhere near as well as Blu Ray: it will struggle to take off, yes it will be of higher quality than online or broadcast offerings but will be more of a niche product really.
d'@ve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 16:41
Nigel Goodwin
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North Derbyshire
Posts: 41,782
I took your manual/auto switch as a means to switch between the two HDMI outputs which you suggested 4k BD players might have. So you where referring to manual/auto resolution setting?
Yes, I was referring to exactly that - the two HDMI sockets was just another 'possibility' - particularly on TV's, where you 'could' potentially only have one 4K socket, and a number of 2K sockets?. It really depends on the costs involved, I would expect sockets on 4K sets to all be 4K though - I wouldn't have thought it would cost any more?.


Players should only require one HDMI output, resolution settings/compatibility should be set from the player as they are now - I don't think it needs to be anymore complicated than that.

So we could see something like 720p/1080i/1080p/4k in the video settings.
And probably 576?.


Not seen any mention of disc storage yet, any guesses?
No, obviously it's got to be a good bit more than current BD - I'd like to think it will have been 'pushed' so capacity is higher than current 'film' capacity (so you could have a longer 4K film than you can on BD).
Nigel Goodwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2014, 17:15
Deacon1972
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 8,103
You will need fast broadband and a truly unlimited service to download movies with file sizes around 50GB. I my maths is correct a 50mbps download service will give about 6MB/sec. To get 50000MB will take about 8000secs (Over 2hrs).
I doubt iTunes/amazon downloads will have the equivalent file size as Bluray, they are probably more inline with Sky HD, around 3.5/4.5GB, but iTunes/amazon were just two examples where you can buy movies without having a physical copy, which was the question being asked.

Sky/Virgin offer unlimited 40+Meg BB - these services would not have a problem dealing with 50GB downloads - I don't know anywhere that offers these sorts of file sizes, not legally anyway.

I prefer the physical disc myself, you're normally guaranteed the best audio/video quality available. Though I am looking at LiivNAS products, a drop and rip product, a convenient way to store all CD's, DVD's and Blurays all in one place. Just need to enquire if they will be 4k BD compatible.
Deacon1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2014, 12:36
2Bdecided
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 4,391
I would expect sockets on 4K sets to all be 4K though
They're not. At least, the Sony, Panasonic, Samsung and LGs ones I've seen have only one HDMI 2.0 4kp60 compatible socket.

Cheers,
David.
2Bdecided is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:01.