James Jordan- - Alpha male or insecure and mentally frail? A critique

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Venetian

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by Scarlet O'Hara:
“Interesting post, AOTB.

I do think James has 'alpha male syndrome' but that's different to saying that I think he'd actually achieve alpha status in any social group.

My understanding of Alpha male is in line with this definition...

"a man tending to assume a dominant or domineering role in social or professional situations"

And that's James. Whether others would welcome it or not is another matter. I've certainly worked with a few Alpha executives who behave like silverback gorillas and are deeply loathed for it.

There've been some interesting studies on the different types of Alphas. So you can get someone like James...aggressive, belligerent, competitive, ego-driven etc. But then there are more palatable Alpha types, e.g. like Audley who are confident, strong, imperturbable, and naturally promoted and respected by others as responsible leaders.”

Mine would be too. I do have to say that I have always ascribed to the notion that you can be tough but nice and when that is possible in my eyes you can achieve Alpha status. I don't actually go around looking for someone with an alpha status, but it usually quite apparent who does have it and who does not.

Many people are saying that in spite of their dislike/disregard for James they find him a good and entertaining HM. I cannot say I find him entertaining in the slightest, I would say I am transfixed by him. Is this the same thing? I like what you say about Audley, that is precisely my view on him.

white tigress

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by cherry pip:
“It wouldn't matter if it was Gary or someone else in that house, nor does it matter how famous Gary was, there is no excuse to treat anyone the way that he has. Good grief if I behaved so dismissively and rude in everyday life to people, I'd be ashamed. The whole issue with James isn't that Gary is a liked actor/person, it's how he deals with someone he sees beneath him, just the same as Dee does. There's a pecking order in there and James and Dee have promoted themselves to the top. Anyone who is seen as a threat and someone who is liked more than they are will pay for it. Sadly that is all I've seen in that house and the good moments disappear because yet again, Gary is on the receiving end.

Why is it that people who dislike Gary sometimes use the fame argument? His acting and fame have got nothing to do with what we, his fans, are saying. It's about intolerant and nasty hms having a pop at Gary whenever they can that we find abhorrent. Edele's own mouth said it all, 'Gary's an easy target'. What more is there to be said!”

Weirdly, I DO agree with most of your argument: Dee and James have the lowest inner self-esteem--in Dee's case understandable, but James has deep-seated Ego issues probably from early childhood--he's VERY like my Mother and she was way worse than him by age 10 it seems!! A shame as both have excellent personal qualities [Dee: real empathy and understanding for others' pain; James: sharp, analytical brain and true bravery] but their Insecurity/Vanity clouds their good parts. Edele seems a 'flitter' with no solid ethos, esp since that Office Task, and I don't recall her loving Audley till these last 10 days nor ever Helping/assisting Gary either.

Bunions

11-09-2014

Cracking OP, Mr Bombshell - agree with all of your observations

He also has zero self-awareness, referenced by him being totally clueless as to why he receives all those boos from the Elstree Rent-a-Mobbers.

When it's suggested to him that he is a very patronising individual, the very notion is immediately shut-down as he puts forward his own far superior and delusionally incorrect explanation.

He has no clue that he's a complete ****er, even though he'd consider anyone who made a 'Brad Pitt of the Dancing World' type comment to be one.

The man is an absolute arse and if brains were ego, he'd be a genius.

ForGodsSake

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by white tigress:
“Hooray!! At most Gary seems to have been an Action B-Movie [full of Explosions] actor 40 years ago. He's not done stage acting, and cannot be compared with REAL Hollywood A-List PROPER actors. He's no DiCaprio, Depp, Spacey, Hanks, or even Buscemi ,Travolta, or Schwartznegger even. So Gary needs to be taken at face value--with respect--in the House which most HMs have done. But that 'offends' the weird Gary Brigade. I'm a cineaste for 50 years and I NEVER heard of him till this show, but then it depends what one watches.”

and what one reads also.

He's had a very credible career.

Oh and can you explain the "Weird Gary brigade" comment please.

Scarlett Berry

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by white tigress:
“Weirdly, I DO agree with most of your argument: Dee and James have the lowest inner self-esteem--in Dee's case understandable, but James has deep-seated Ego issues probably from early childhood--he's VERY like my Mother and she was way worse than him by age 10 it seems!! A shame as both have excellent personal qualities [Dee: real empathy and understanding for others' pain; James: sharp, analytical brain and true bravery] but their Insecurity/Vanity clouds their good parts. Edele seems a 'flitter' with no solid ethos, esp since that Office Task, and I don't recall her loving Audley till these last 10 days nor ever Helping/assisting Gary either.”

Enjoyed your post but in what way has James displayed true bravery. Genuine question

Also when has Dee showed understanding & real empathy for others pain.

cherry pip

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by white tigress:
“Weirdly, I DO agree with most of your argument: Dee and James have the lowest inner self-esteem--in Dee's case understandable, but James has deep-seated Ego issues probably from early childhood--he's VERY like my Mother and she was way worse than him by age 10 it seems!! A shame as both have excellent personal qualities [Dee: real empathy and understanding for others' pain; James: sharp, analytical brain and true bravery] but their Insecurity/Vanity clouds their good parts. Edele seems a 'flitter' with no solid ethos, esp since that Office Task, and I don't recall her loving Audley till these last 10 days nor ever Helping/assisting Gary either.”

Thanks. I know a few like James and Dee. Their inner self-esteem isn't great and it affects them greatly sometimes. I don't see Dee the same as you but I can see James having those qualities. I like how he sees Ola for who she is and I don't doubt he loves her dearly. I think she helps him a lot in how he feels. Edele, I was hoping, would end up like Lauren has been for the last few days but she's very unpredictable. This week, it seems to have been Gary, Audley and Lauren together more than anything. I have a feeling though that Edele may just replace Lauren here. She's got a lot of thinking to do and soon because she hasn't fully found her loyalty yet.

white tigress

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by Venetian:
“Mine would be too. I do have to say that I have always ascribed to the notion that you can be tough but nice and when that is possible in my eyes you can achieve Alpha status. I don't actually go around looking for someone with an alpha status, but it usually quite apparent who does have it and who does not.

Many people are saying that in spite of their dislike/disregard for James they find him a good and entertaining HM. I cannot say I find him entertaining in the slightest, I would say I am transfixed by him. Is this the same thing? I like what you say about Audley, that is precisely my view on him.”

Sorry this is a bit off the James topic, but whilst I love & admire Audley's beauty & mellow chilled-outness and wouldn't be irked if he Won, the letters-from-home showed Audley's ONLY concerned about his Image to his family and his own self-perception rather than getting stuck in with the whole BB Community challenges. This explains why he's done nothing for Gary throughout, but can lie back and criticise HMs who've actually dealt with the guy daily and sorted out his needs and tried to help him to do well in the House. Am inclined now to see that Audley IS--along with Gary--the biggest player in there. Saddened, but it seems BOTH of them can p*ss off to L.A. with their fat cheques and not care about the GBP being hoodwinked. Whereas James, Dee, Edele, George have to live here afterwards explaining themselves to tabloids, etc.

Bela

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by molliepops:
“I don't seem to see HMs like many people, I haven't ever worshipped one or thought them incapable of being a human being with flaws. I look at the flaws and decide if I can like them despite their problems, is there a nice person in there trying to get out? I think James there is a nice person in there he struggles to express that and it comes out a bit wrong. Whereas another HM is pretty nasty and I think nothing nice inside him either. If either win it won't be good for them, but I would rather see James win than some others as at least he has been himself and entertained me.”

Yes, agree pretty much with this, particularly the BIB.

I don't see what we see of a HM on CBB as representative of the sum of their parts or even necessarily an accurate picture of who they are in reality, purely because (a) It's an artifical setting generating exaggerated behaviour and (b) they've been paid to take part in a RTV entertainment show. What we're seeing is a version of them. And if that version is entertaining and makes me laugh/cry/wince/rage/etc, then they're doing their job. I don't need to approve of them or even like them for that to be the case. In James's case, I do see likeable qualities alongside the awful ones but the idea of judging his character purely on the basis of what we see on CBB seems a very odd thing to do.

He's been a cracking HM, and for me, that's all he's ever needed to be.

Conehead

11-09-2014

This is all very well, but for my money this forum is better suited to pithy put-downs than in-depth essays on the state of James's soul.

HONK!

ForGodsSake

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by white tigress:
“Sorry this is a bit off the James topic, but whilst I love & admire Audley's beauty & mellow chilled-outness and wouldn't be irked if he Won, the letters-from-home showed Audley's ONLY concerned about his Image to his family and his own self-perception rather than getting stuck in with the whole BB Community challenges. This explains why he's done nothing for Gary throughout, but can lie back and criticise HMs who've actually dealt with the guy daily and sorted out his needs and tried to help him to do well in the House. Am inclined now to see that Audley IS--along with Gary--the biggest player in there. Saddened, but it seems BOTH of them can p*ss off to L.A. with their fat cheques and not care about the GBP being hoodwinked. Whereas James, Dee, Edele, George have to live here afterwards explaining themselves to tabloids, etc.”

But how do you KNOW Audley hasn't helped Gary ? he cooks for him at the very least. ?
We see 45 mins a day as so many people rush to say. What's to say he isn't helping him during the rest of the time ?

Audley and Gary have a great relationship from where I'm sitting.

James blows his own trumpet far to loudly for my liking..

ForGodsSake

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by BlackberryGirl:
“The Alec Baldwin of Blackpool wasn't it?

My memory is foggy though..”

The Philiip Schofield of Blackpool winter gardens, I think.

planets

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by white tigress:
“Hooray!! At most Gary seems to have been an Action B-Movie [full of Explosions] actor 40 years ago. He's not done stage acting, and cannot be compared with REAL Hollywood A-List PROPER actors. He's no DiCaprio, Depp, Spacey, Hanks, or even Buscemi ,Travolta, or Schwartznegger even. So Gary needs to be taken at face value--with respect--in the House which most HMs have done. But that 'offends' the weird Gary Brigade. I'm a cineaste for 50 years and I NEVER heard of him till this show, but then it depends what one watches.”

so, let's take Gary out of the equation, what if James behaved exactly the same, spoke the same words in the same manner but to Steve Buscemi , what's your reaction then?

Conehead

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by ForGodsSake:
“The Philiip Schofield of Blackpool winter gardens, I think.”

The Rodney Bewes of Skegness.

Captain Kipper

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by fifitrixibelle:
“He is an obnoxious bell end.”

THAT, should be on his gravestone.

Bela

11-09-2014

Just briefly, this is exactly why I went off Audley. I do see someone who really loves to talk-the-talk as regards Gary but has always done it from a cool distance.

Sorry, OP, back on topic.

mimicole

11-09-2014

I don't get the great love for Gary either.

Having met James a handful of times, I can tell you that he's a genuinely lovely guy. Knowing his family, I can say that they are very upset with the response that he has been getting. People seem to be forgetting that he has a family, and that they are on the receiving end of people's opinions (his sister, for example got a particularly horrible message on Twitter, wishing cancer on her brother in the future. Who does that?!). His wife has also been receiving hate on the internet.

This doesn't just go for James, but for all people in the public eye: Most of the time, the people posting about them have never met the person/people in question yet spout vile comments left right and centre. I've noticed it in particular on these forums.

Just a thought.

Penny Crayon

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by fifitrixibelle:
“Thanks for your forgiveness..................I rarely use the term, but for him it's perfect, a succinct way of saying he is an empty vessel, a knob full of bluster and self importance, a pathetic man who likes to hide behind the idea that he is a clever WUM so he can get his spiteful jibes in an effort to humiliate whoever he feels threatened by.......the fact that he neither has the intelligence or natural wit to pull it off just makes him look even more ridiculous and sad.

Personally I don't understand why any viewer would 'not turn against him' because of other's views.............no matter how 'inane'...............much rather watch and form my own opinion, why would any one else's view or comments impact on that??.....isn't that rather pointless and lazy?”

I can see how it looks like that - it probably is a bit.

I'll be honest - I don't really take it that seriously and don't go in for over analysis of everyone's motives and actions. I view it on a very superficial level and I very much make my own mind up on that.

ForGodsSake

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by mimicole:
“I don't get the great love for Gary either.

Having met James a handful of times, I can tell you that he's a genuinely lovely guy. Knowing his family, I can say that they are very upset with the response that he has been getting. People seem to be forgetting that he has a family, and that they are on the receiving end of people's opinions (his sister, for example got a particularly horrible message on Twitter, wishing cancer on her brother in the future. Who does that?!). His wife has also been receiving hate on the internet.

This doesn't just go for James, but for all people in the public eye: Most of the time, the people posting about them have never met the person/people in question yet spout vile comments left right and centre. I've noticed it in particular on these forums.

Just a thought.”

Good.
I hope they are upset and embarrassed at james' behaviour.

If he was a friend or relative of mine, I would severely word him about his superior attitude and his nasty spiteful ways.

molliepops

11-09-2014

I was answering because some seem to think as an actor they consider great he should be afforded more respect.
And no they haven't been always nice to him I haven't said they have but he isn't from what we see easy to live with and is no better than them for being dismissive and rude.

Originally Posted by ForGodsSake:
“Good.
I hope they are upset and embarrassed at james' behaviour.

If he was a friend or relative of mine, I would severely word him about his superior attitude and his nasty spiteful ways.”

And I can not ever imagine James saying that about anyone which makes him so much nicer than anyone who could say that about his family.

Scarlett Berry

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by mimicole:
“I don't get the great love for Gary either.

Having met James a handful of times, I can tell you that he's a genuinely lovely guy. Knowing his family, I can say that they are very upset with the response that he has been getting. People seem to be forgetting that he has a family, and that they are on the receiving end of people's opinions (his sister, for example got a particularly horrible message on Twitter, wishing cancer on her brother in the future. Who does that?!). His wife has also been receiving hate on the internet.

This doesn't just go for James, but for all people in the public eye: Most of the time, the people posting about them have never met the person/people in question yet spout vile comments left right and centre. I've noticed it in particular on these forums.

Just a thought.”

I absolutely do not condone any form of attack on James family whatsoever. It is reprehensible.

However, James has gone on a show, watched and voted for by the public. He has opened up his personality for judgement and scrutnity.

His behaviour has been obnoxious and cruel and folk are correctly judging him on it. I will have to take your word for it that he is a genuinely lovely guy, I personally have seen nothing that would make me believe this for one second.

In fact I would say he is one of the most rotten individuals who have graced the BB house.
If his family love him as they do, they need to have a word in his ear about respecting other people, because quite frankly, this along with his sensitivity chip seems to be missing. He comes accross as a totally unlikeable & bullish man.

Penny Crayon

11-09-2014

Seriously?

JanisElizabeth

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by AOTB:
“I should start by clarifying I think the guy is an absolute arse of a man. A nasty, spiteful, deluded, hugely insecure muppet whose fears and insecurities manifest itself in his nasty, trolling arrogant and misplaced ways. .

He has delusions of grandeur when it comes to him and his position on both life and the pecking order and where he fits into it.
He tries to project an image of some make believe alpha male when in reality he is about as far from an alpha male as can be. I've never bought what this guy's been selling, and wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him. He is just not a nice person.

He is like someone who has a slightly different but similar version of 'small man syndrome', desperately trying to prove something to everyone around him, desperate for their approval of his 'status' and to make people believe he is some kind of dominant strong character but it just seems totally false and totally put on for show. He is in fact the polar opposite of these things.

His actions and reactions belie his true cowardly, insecure, desperate for approval and recognition, nature.

There have been a number of times when challenged where it's become pretty damn clear James is not just NOT an alpha male but he'd also struggle with being a beta male. The only time he could ever be thought of as a strong alpha type is when he is surrounded by weak sycophants who weirdly might pander to him.

If he is amongst weak minded fools or runts of the litter, like Ricci or Lauren or George etc then sure he may be the alpha by default, but in front of any normal blokes or a real alpha type he cowers and runs. It's happened a few times now in there.

If he's not talking about knocking out a 70 year old man and then cowering like a coward when the 70 year old man tells him to 'stand up', he's wrongly thinking he has words of 'wisdom' to say, berating Gary yet again, and then again skulking off like the coward he is when Audley tells him how it is.

The guy cowers in fear when an actual alpha male even glances at him, let alone picks him up on the bull he comes out with and he runs of with his tail between his legs.

I think he has to be one of the most obnoxious, humourless, bitter, twisted HMs I have ever had the misfortune to see on my TV screen.

I can hold my hands up and say he's made a decent HM, and I'd totally have kept him in til now, but this isn't a badge of honour, it's purely a comment on what a total arse of a human being and nasty piece of work this guy is.

Each to their own of course, but I fail to see how anyone can make excuses for him, or like him, or try to make out he's a decent guy worthy of even the most minuscule bit of admiration.

There's far far more but for now I shall leave it there on this guy, and would be interested to hear other people's thoughts on him.”

Nothing to add. You've said it all

cherry pip

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by molliepops:
“I was answering because some seem to think as an actor they consider great he should be afforded more respect.
And no they haven't been always nice to him I haven't said they have but he isn't from what we see easy to live with and is no better than them for being dismissive and rude.

.”

Maybe some people do. I'm talking for the perspective that no matter whether he's a famous actor or not, he hasn't deserved the treatment he's received. Being different should never be used against you like that. We have plenty of 'isms' that this PC world has given us and yet we have some of the worst behaviour here that isn't even reprimanded and stopped. Respect wise, I think Gary deserves that at the very least just as I would say they all do. Personally I can't respect the likes of Dee and James because they refuse to return it.

It would be difficult to live with any stranger for so long without a break but they all knew this could be the case and I'm sure Ch5 deliberately grouped these people together knowing what could happen. Dismissive and rude isn't something I'd put on Gary's shoulders in a big way. Yes, the occasional blip, which again we can all do and others normally ignore them and just get on with things. But those descriptions, to me, belong solely to Dee and James, for the most part and sadly they haven't finished either.

fifitrixibelle

11-09-2014

Originally Posted by white tigress:
“Sorry this is a bit off the James topic, but whilst I love & admire Audley's beauty & mellow chilled-outness and wouldn't be irked if he Won, the letters-from-home showed Audley's ONLY concerned about his Image to his family and his own self-perception rather than getting stuck in with the whole BB Community challenges. This explains why he's done nothing for Gary throughout, but can lie back and criticise HMs who've actually dealt with the guy daily and sorted out his needs and tried to help him to do well in the House. Am inclined now to see that Audley IS--along with Gary--the biggest player in there. Saddened, but it seems BOTH of them can p*ss off to L.A. with their fat cheques and not care about the GBP being hoodwinked. Whereas James, Dee, Edele, George have to live here afterwards explaining themselves to tabloids, etc.”

Not sure why that would be seen to be an issue..........they are the most important things to most of us I would have thought...........not sure about the 'BB community challenges' and what that means though.......I just don't think his 'thing' is bitching and moaning, besides which James long since decided he didn't like Audley and does his best (though fails) to wind him up and humiliate him.............fine,plenty on here seem to find that clever entertainment on the part of James but I suspect Audley doesn't.......and so why would he want to spend time with mind sets like that?
As for Gary, we don't know what he does and doesn't do in the way of helping...we do see in the highlights those HM's that make a song and dance out of it and I suspect Audley helps if needed but without the drama....I don't feel I have been hoodwinked at all, nice to see a stable, tolerant person who does not follow the pack and knows that his family and self are worth far more than going down the road of the petty bitching and grandstanding from most of the other HM's.

ForGodsSake

11-09-2014

Yet I could easily see it.
Perception is a funny thing eh ?

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