[habby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktla5

What I dont quite follow, but then I am not business minded!
Turnover in 2013 £1Bn Profits so far £100million fine until Friday night, EE pull contract, goes bust on Monday ?

They're not going bust because of money. Not having any networks to sell their phones with is the main downfall. Three seems to have already pulled out months ago. Vodafone earlier this month and now EE.

[darkjedimaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by habby

They're not going bust because of money. Not having any networks to sell their phones with is the main downfall. Three seems to have already pulled out months ago. Vodafone earlier this month and now EE.

^^^^^ Exactly this, at the end of the day with exception of the odd payg customers & people that are able to afford phones sim free, the majority want new technology on an affordable tariff, if a shop is unable to provide that phone on a certain tariff, then people will go elsewhere. I originally got my contract through Phones 4u, but since have been going direct to Vodafone for my upgrades.

[hotmat3k]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkjedimaster

^^^^^ Exactly this, at the end of the day with exception of the odd payg customers & people that are able to afford phones sim free, the majority want new technology on an affordable tariff, if a shop is unable to provide that phone on a certain tariff, then people will go elsewhere. I originally got my contract through Phones 4u, but since have been going direct to Vodafone for my upgrades.

Pulling the contracts from Phones4U does and doesn't make sense. Okay, the mobile operators are having to find new ways of making money as mobile phones are a commodity rather than a luxury in today's world; but to not keep the foothold of people walking through the door of the high street? If Carphonewarehouse goes anytime; then that's pretty much the last of the high street unified mobile phone shops.

If I was Phones4U maybe a couple of years ago; I'd of made the choice to create a virtual mobile phone operator knowing ins-and-outs of the market. At least they'd have a revenue stream and could sell phones directly on their network if other operators chose to pull out of their contracts now. They're a decent brand who seem like they've had great success (and still are with last year's figures).

[interactiv-uk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotmat3k

If I was Phones4U maybe a couple of years ago; I'd of made the choice to create a virtual mobile phone operator knowing ins-and-outs of the market. At least they'd have a revenue stream and could sell phones directly on their network if other operators chose to pull out of their contracts now. They're a decent brand who seem like they've had great success (and still are with last year's figures).

They did do this with Life Mobile (I think it is called!) - doesn't seem to have been strong enough brand for a stand alone retail estate though.

Will we now see the Carphone brand popping up in Currys stores quicker than was expected? All those 4U concessions will now be closed also.

[hotmat3k]

Quote:

Originally Posted by interactiv-uk

They did do this with Life Mobile (I think it is called!) - doesn't seem to have been strong enough brand for a stand alone retail estate though.

Will we now see the Carphone brand popping up in Currys stores quicker than was expected? All those 4U concessions will now be closed also.

Oh yes! But again, I've not seen it advertised anywhere (TV, radio, newspaper etc), so how could it thrive at all? Bit of a limp attempt looking at their website.

Hope someone can keep the name alive and reuse it for another purpose.

[cnbcwatcher]

In recent times I found the customer service in Phones 4 U to be better than in Carphone Warehouse. I remember going into several branches of Carphone Warehouse and none of them had the phone I wanted and then I went into another branch that did have it and the staff just stood around ignoring me even when I asked for help. I then went to Phones 4 U and got served pretty quick and they also had the phone I wanted. They were brilliant in getting it set up for me and everything as it was the first time I had used a smartphone. If P4U close down permanently it means Carphone Warehouse will have a monopoly on the high street unless you buy from a network shop and that's not always a good option because I'm sure lots of people want to buy unlocked phones.

[ktla5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by habby

They're not going bust because of money. Not having any networks to sell their phones with is the main downfall. Three seems to have already pulled out months ago. Vodafone earlier this month and now EE.

Has to be more to all this than it seems surely? OK EE / Vodafone / 02 have pulled out of selling contracts to p4u , but there are still quite a few online 'stores' that sell Mobiles with Contracts and give special deals etc, so it's not like the phone companies are leaving the 3rd party dealers completely. eg mobiles.co.uk / buymobiles.net etc etc

[wilt]

This makes interesting reading...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-collapse.html

[lost boy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AyrshireDJ

Last January I was looking to upgrade my iphone. Went into my local EE shop - who I have been a customer with for many years, and the sales staff were less than helpful. Went across the street to the other EE shop (a rebranded T Mobile shop) and again, less than helpful.

Walked down the road, into Phones4U and totally different outlook. Walked out with a better iphone, better contract, more data and calls and texts and also upgraded to 4G (was previously an Orange 3G customer), AND they bought my old iphone off me. The EE shops weren't even interested in a trade in, let alone giving me the new handset for free, which Phones4U gladly offered.

Until that day I was a big fan of going straight to the providers shop rather than pay a "middle man", but since that day my views changed.

Although I may have just been "lucky" I cant really fault Phones4U - they worked harder and got my custom and would get future custom from me if they survive, and would be sad to see them go, as would definitely be giving them a visit to discuss an upgrade to an iphone 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnbcwatcher

In recent times I found the customer service in Phones 4 U to be better than in Carphone Warehouse. I remember going into several branches of Carphone Warehouse and none of them had the phone I wanted and then I went into another branch that did have it and the staff just stood around ignoring me even when I asked for help. I then went to Phones 4 U and got served pretty quick and they also had the phone I wanted. They were brilliant in getting it set up for me and everything as it was the first time I had used a smartphone. If P4U close down permanently it means Carphone Warehouse will have a monopoly on the high street unless you buy from a network shop and that's not always a good option because I'm sure lots of people want to buy unlocked phones.

To be honest, I agree with both of you.

Despite their toxic reputation, and barring the odd in-store exception with the latter, I've had better service from Phones4u than what I've ended up receiving from Carphone Warehouse over the years. I've found CPW call centres in particular are an exercise in patience, even for a saint. Frankly, in my experience, CPW call centres give EE a run for their money - and that's not a good thing.

In any case, I feel bad for the staff at the front end. As always, they're the ones who'll suffer most because of this. I'm sure the directors will be OK though.

[Darth-Habib]

Interesting

Vodafone was in talks about a joint takeover of Phones4U as recently as two months ago but abandoned the proposed deal without explanation.

Sky News has learnt that Vodafone executives discussed at a meeting in June with financial and legal advisers to Phones4U a takeover of the chain by the mobile phone network along with EE, its rival.

The deal would have been structured as a 50:50 acquisition of Phones4U, with Vodafone encouraging the retailer's legal team to "review how this could be achieved given the competition constraints", according to a person close to the talks.

A subsequent discussion between Vodafone and Phones4U indicated that Vodafone might pursue a takeover on its own if EE did not wish to participate, the person added.

http://news.sky.com/story/1336270/vo...r-of-phones-4u

[Tassium]

The owners of Phones4U should really be facing jail for their behaviour.

Instead they get rich, and will likely do this all over again.

[habby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassium

The owners of Phones4U should really be facing jail for their behaviour.

Instead they get rich, and will likely do this all over again.

What have they done? It wasn't their fault that the networks suddenly pulled out on them.


I just thought. There's Tesco Mobile What network do they use?

[darkjedimaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by habby

What have they done? It wasn't their fault that the networks suddenly pulled out on them.


I just thought. There's Tesco Mobile What network do they use?

They share O2's network

http://www.tescomobile.com/about-us

[sethpet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by habby

What have they done? It wasn't their fault that the networks suddenly pulled out on them.


I just thought. There's Tesco Mobile What network do they use?

You mean apart from loading debt onto the company and then using it to pay themselves a dividend. Then it appears from the vodafone statement the debt repayments they created made them dependent of commissions the networks were not prepared to pay.

Seems like the asset stripping by the parent company has hit the staff the hardest.

[prking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lost boy

To be honest, I agree with both of you.

Despite their toxic reputation, and barring the odd in-store exception with the latter, I've had better service from Phones4u than what I've ended up receiving from Carphone Warehouse over the years. I've found CPW call centres in particular are an exercise in patience, even for a saint. Frankly, in my experience, CPW call centres give EE a run for their money - and that's not a good thing.

In any case, I feel bad for the staff at the front end. As always, they're the ones who'll suffer most because of this. I'm sure the directors will be OK though.

I agree, I've had very good service from them. Perhaps 5 to 10 years ago they had a reputation for spiky haired spivs dragging people in. But on the last time I went in, I had a great time. They had the phone I wanted, I got a great deal, they made sure my tariff was suitable and I spoke with someone who had used the phone and knew all the tips and tricks.

Its concerning that the networks want to stifle competition.

[alanwarwic]

I blame the regulators who allowed T-mobile and Orange to merge.
Making one mega corp meant that competition got totally screwed.

Though obviously my thread on 50% of high street stores closing down is also relevant.
The government still has its head in the sand about the need for an internet tax to help protect local economies.

[Pucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcheese

Wonder what will happen to the Phones4U Arena?! Can they still be called that if the company folds?

To be fair though, I still call it the MEN Arena

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandNiles

As does everyone. The MEN gets the advertising without the sponsorship these days!

To me it's still the Nynex!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by interactiv-uk

They did do this with Life Mobile (I think it is called!) - doesn't seem to have been strong enough brand for a stand alone retail estate though.

Will we now see the Carphone brand popping up in Currys stores quicker than was expected? All those 4U concessions will now be closed also.

I've read today that a lot of the P4U staff in PC World/Currys concessions will be offered jobs, so I suspect that's what will happen.

[moox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

I blame the regulators who allowed T-mobile and Orange to merge.
Making one mega corp meant that competition got totally screwed.

Though obviously my thread on 50% of high street stores closing down is also relevant.
The government still has its head in the sand about the need for an internet tax to help protect local economies.

I don't see how the EE merger has anything to do with it. 3, O2 and Vodafone have all pulled out of P4U too - so who is to say the independent Orange / T-Mobile wouldn't have done that? IIRC 3 doesn't sell in Carphone Warehouse either.

[Futurama-Fan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

The government still has its head in the sand about the need for an internet tax to help protect local economies.

I have to disagree with the idea of an 'internet tax'.

Firstly all items sold to to British consumers have to have the VAT paid to the tresuary (with must be paid by the retailer, including those companies that people like to claim are avoiding tax - amazon, starbuck ect). Now it trues some companies (and for some read all but the smallest of companies) will have accountants that will use legal ways to lower the amount of corporate tax that has to be paid, but VAT would be extremely difficult tax for companies to try and avoid.

This is especially true since 2012 when a previous loophole meant that items bought online in the UK, through a UK company (or it's UK subsidary) but were sent from Jersey did not have to pay VAT on 'lower value items'.

Secondly if there was an internet tax for items bought on-line then all you will find is that the death of the high street/local market will continue because the big internet retails and those UK wide stores that also sell on-line (and ususally with a slight lower price on-line) will be able to continue undercutting. All that would happen as a consequence of an Internet Tax would be that small and medium sized on-line UK retailers would be squeezed and put out of the business.

There are numerous reason for the high street dying, and the tax paid directly by the customer isn't one of them.

Firstly, in our modern society less and less people are working Monday to Friday 9-5. Yet how many high street stores are open after 5 or 5.30pm. Based on my experience of Glasgow city centre there are very few stores that are open after 5ish. And those that do are the food stores or the big UK wide store (and even the these non-food stores close no later that 7pm). Therefore for a lot of people internet shopping is the most convenient way to shop.

Also most people have seen their take home pay reduced (thanks to below inflation pay rises since the credit crunch of 2008). A lot of people now want to make their money go further. If you live in a large city then you can probably compare a number of stores to get the best price. If you are in a small city or large town you may have one or two stores to visit. If you live in a small town or in a village then your are snookered. However with the internet someone who lives in small remote village (so long as it is part of the UK mainland) has the same choice, range and options as someone who lives in the heart of London.

Another reason for the death of the high street is peope also want to be sure (or a sure as possible) that if they are buy an expensive item that the quaility is good. Shopping on-line allows you to not only shop around for the best price, but also to read up on independant reviews of the product. In a shop your trusting a salesman.

Another point I would make is the following, but I want to make clear that I'm talking about the large chain stores that generally employ young people and have a large turnover of staff. Thanks to the competitive environment that the high street chains are now competing in, most staff are now excedingly aggressive in trying to get a sale (staff on commission) or the staff really don't give a damn about the customer (usually because they pay the staff the minimum wage with no bonuses or incentives).

Therefore with the big chains there is no real unique selling point. At least with the independent shops with their ususally high prices the unique selling point is that the staff (normally the owner or a member of the owners family) are usually knowlegable and have a passion for what they do and what they sell.

One final point with regards to the death of the high street and that is to do with rates. It's not the tax rates that the customer pays that is the issue, but it is the high rates of Business Tax that most councils charge. Add to this that most independent shops rent their store from a private landlord, and a not uncommon technique of the landlords is to give a new leaseholder a really good deal on the first 6/12 month contract. When the store wants to extend the contract the landlord wants to significantly increase the rent. This is why a lot of local independent shops seem to be doing well and then suddenly shut up shop. It's not that they weren't turning a profit, its that the lease rate/rent becomes too high to continue turning a profit.

[Gary_LandyFan]

I find it unbelievable that people are blaming anyone other P4U for this.
P4U's demise was caused by the same reason's Blockbuster's was. The Industry they are/were in is dying.

People no longer want to go to third-party shops to buy services, they can just go straight to provider's themselves.

[plymouthbloke1974]

The fact that the owners mortgaged the business by cashing bonds to the value of £505m won't have helped.

The bonds need to be repaid by 2019 and by closing now, paying the staff a decent redundancy, then stripping all their assets and property they may *just* repay these bonds.

If they wait until the indirect dealer contracts expire and for the walk-in trade to dry up due to lack of confidence, the equity companies would be well and truly in the shite.

[alanwarwic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Futurama-Fan

...Firstly all items sold to to British consumers have to have the VAT paid to the tresuary...

So we have no rates, no services, no corporation tax, no local jobs and you disagree because 20% of our money goes to government, near zero is local.

Ghost towns, that is what we are going to get. Even our supposed service economy is heading offshore big time.

And EE, THree and Vodafone will be shrinking down to tokenism big city shops, just like BT, BG and other mega service companies.

[The Lord Lucan]

Folk blaming the networks are quite nieve. They tried to pull the wool over at least one network, threatened another and were debt loading. Networks just walked away, as they should of.
Anger should be at P4U & it's owners, sympathy should be with it's employees and the Networks Customer Service teams who are going to bare the brunt for no valid reason.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary_LandyFan

I find it unbelievable that people are blaming anyone other P4U for this.
P4U's demise was caused by the same reason's Blockbuster's was. The Industry they are/were in is dying.

People no longer want to go to third-party shops to buy services, they can just go straight to provider's themselves.

That's utter nonsense. Not only can you get phones for free on certain contracts, you got cashback deals or other incentives from the likes of Phones4u. It was so much better for me to get my S4 from Phones4u than it was direct with EE. Also why wouldn't people want to go to third party shops? I go where the best deal is like anyone else.

The problem is, companies like EE are now thinking it will be cheaper to sell their own contracts.

[Mythica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lord Lucan

Folk blaming the networks are quite nieve. They tried to pull the wool over at least one network, threatened another and were debt loading. Networks just walked away, as they should of.
Anger should be at P4U & it's owners, sympathy should be with it's employees and the Networks Customer Service teams who are going to bare the brunt for no valid reason.

I think it's a bit pointless laying the blame anywhere at the moment. The whole situation is a mess with rumours flying about all over the place.