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EE should be a better representation of the EastEnd.


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Old 15-09-2014, 04:31
BringBackZsaZsa
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I love EastEnders but I think it needs to be more authentic. DTC is already doing loads - well, he has saved the show and should be praised to the hilt for his brilliant work - to make the show more authentic, but there needs to be more. The great thing about EastEnders in the early days was that whilst being a drama with great characters and great storylines, it was still authentic - Walford was a real reflection of EastEnders in the 1980s. I have suggestions about how it could go back to that:

1) Ethnic diversity. Where are the Somali diaspora who live in social housing estates in the East End? Where is the huge Bangladeshi diaspora who live in Newham and Tower Hamlets? There are no West African characters? I am not calling for East End to be a carbon copy of reality or token characters for a tick box exercise but genuine representation of these groups with characters who actually fit the mould. How about some (albeit minor) storylines built around these groups for eg. an asylum case with a Somali refugee or an exorcism storyline with a dodgy "pastor"? Also, the extras need to be more diverse too - again, not tokenism but real EastEnders whether it be new West African market stallholders (as extras), Muslim extras dressed in cultural attire etc.

2) Hipsters and tech entrepreneurs. DTC mentioned it and we have Blades and The Albert which represent that type of East Londoner. However, he should go further and introduce hipsters into the cast not jut as extras who work in The Albert. Maybe Zsa Zsa returns as a hipster (which would make sense) with a hipster boyfriend too? Or a hipster befriends the Carters. Also, tech entrepreneurs, many of whom work in Tech City in Old Street, have also flocked to the East End. How about a character who is a tech entrepeneur who brings his 'Tech City' social circle to Walford? Or maybe he launches a new tech start-up in Walford? There are enough bars and restaurants in Walford.

3) Bring back Walford Towers. A housing estate in East London which is outside the Square makes complete sense. There is no point for all the characters to live on The Square seeing as it just isn't realistic. It could also house many of the cultural groups that I have already mentioned. I would suggest that Kat and Alfie move there after they become homeless. Walford Towers could also be under threat because the council wants to make way for gentrification of the area (something that is actually happening in Newham). People forget that Kathy and Pete used to live there and so did the Jacksons before they moved to the Square.

4) More MCLE. Cockney is no longer the order of the day. It's gone to areas like Sittingbourne, Swale, Medway, Southend and Basildon as opposed to the East End where it originates from and it is replaced by Multicultural London English. Where Cockney is spoken, it is mainly by those from an older generation. I am not saying for a second that there should be no more Cockney in EastEnders but it is ludicrous that only two characters - Dexter and Fatboy (who are reviled characters on DS in spite of being popular with viewers) actually speak it! There should be more characters who speak MCLE and actors too.
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Old 15-09-2014, 06:00
Joshua91
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I'm glad that, unlike most people, you've mentioned more than just ethnic diversity. The East End isn't just about ethnic diversity.
I get your point and I do agree with it to a point.
However, I'm not too bothered about it. For me EastEnders is about the characters they have not ethnic diversity.
Besides, not every part of the East End, or London for that matter, is hugely ethnically diverse.
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Old 15-09-2014, 06:38
dd68
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Do you think everyone should speak bengali? when I worked in the Royal London Hospital that was largely the case, but I don't think it would make prime time figures, EE has a brilliant mix
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Old 15-09-2014, 07:25
vaslav37
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I love EastEnders but I think it needs to be more authentic. DTC is already doing loads - well, he has saved the show and should be praised to the hilt for his brilliant work - to make the show more authentic, but there needs to be more. The great thing about EastEnders in the early days was that whilst being a drama with great characters and great storylines, it was still authentic - Walford was a real reflection of EastEnders in the 1980s. I have suggestions about how it could go back to that:

1) Ethnic diversity. Where are the Somali diaspora who live in social housing estates in the East End? Where is the huge Bangladeshi diaspora who live in Newham and Tower Hamlets? There are no West African characters? I am not calling for East End to be a carbon copy of reality or token characters for a tick box exercise but genuine representation of these groups with characters who actually fit the mould. How about some (albeit minor) storylines built around these groups for eg. an asylum case with a Somali refugee or an exorcism storyline with a dodgy "pastor"? Also, the extras need to be more diverse too - again, not tokenism but real EastEnders whether it be new West African market stallholders (as extras), Muslim extras dressed in cultural attire etc.

2) Hipsters and tech entrepreneurs. DTC mentioned it and we have Blades and The Albert which represent that type of East Londoner. However, he should go further and introduce hipsters into the cast not jut as extras who work in The Albert. Maybe Zsa Zsa returns as a hipster (which would make sense) with a hipster boyfriend too? Or a hipster befriends the Carters. Also, tech entrepreneurs, many of whom work in Tech City in Old Street, have also flocked to the East End. How about a character who is a tech entrepeneur who brings his 'Tech City' social circle to Walford? Or maybe he launches a new tech start-up in Walford? There are enough bars and restaurants in Walford.

3) Bring back Walford Towers. A housing estate in East London which is outside the Square makes complete sense. There is no point for all the characters to live on The Square seeing as it just isn't realistic. It could also house many of the cultural groups that I have already mentioned. I would suggest that Kat and Alfie move there after they become homeless. Walford Towers could also be under threat because the council wants to make way for gentrification of the area (something that is actually happening in Newham). People forget that Kathy and Pete used to live there and so did the Jacksons before they moved to the Square.

4) More MCLE. Cockney is no longer the order of the day. It's gone to areas like Sittingbourne, Swale, Medway, Southend and Basildon as opposed to the East End where it originates from and it is replaced by Multicultural London English. Where Cockney is spoken, it is mainly by those from an older generation. I am not saying for a second that there should be no more Cockney in EastEnders but it is ludicrous that only two characters - Dexter and Fatboy (who are reviled characters on DS in spite of being popular with viewers) actually speak it! There should be more characters who speak MCLE and actors too.
Great Post- I definitely agree with what your saying.
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Old 15-09-2014, 07:58
vaslav37
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The East End is now the hub of the new start up- but none of this is reflected in the show.,

Where are the techs/new media kids/artists?

The Albert is also massively underused.
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Old 15-09-2014, 08:56
Ell_Ren
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I personally think too much is made of it on the ethnic side, I know that sounds bad but I don't watch a show and actively look out for what a characters ethnicity and so on, so long as the characters work and the actors are good, I see no problem.
If EastEnders was to represent the real East-end then 90% of the cast wouldn't even have English as a first language..

In general - EastEnders is a fictional show, it's a not public information show or documentary so I think it's fine as it is.
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Old 15-09-2014, 09:08
J-B
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At least all the murderers in East London are well represented.
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Old 15-09-2014, 09:09
Ell_Ren
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At least all the murderers in East London are well represented.
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Old 15-09-2014, 09:31
lou_123
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Absolutely no way, they'd be completely driving away what EastEnders is, dtc has got it with the times nicely, there's only so much you can do, or you'll damage the show, making it young and fresh is very risky!
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Old 15-09-2014, 09:35
lou_123
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I personally think too much is made of it on the ethnic side, I know that sounds bad but I don't watch a show and actively look out for what a characters ethnicity and so on, so long as the characters work and the actors are good, I see no problem.
If EastEnders was to represent the real East-end then 90% of the cast wouldn't even have English as a first language..

In general - EastEnders is a fictional show, it's a not public information show or documentary so I think it's fine as it is.
Exactly^ why should it be like the real east end to the absolute detail? Not all viewers want to see hipsters etc taking over, it needs to have a mix, especially for the older viewers! It's fine as it is!
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Old 15-09-2014, 10:09
GeekInfected
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Absolutely no way, they'd be completely driving away what EastEnders is, dtc has got it with the times nicely, there's only so much you can do, or you'll damage the show, making it young and fresh is very risky!
What EastEnders WAS and SHOULD BE is a close enough representation of the times. This is what the OP is suggesting and the OP has it 100% right. The production at EastEnders should stop worrying about the old people think about their beloved show. Old people are closer to death and therefore shouldn't be dictating the future if something of which they have no part in. A little harsh, but my point is that the show should not be some nostalgic mishmash of what it once used to be. Because that is never what it was. Nods to the past are fine as the past is something we use in our everyday lives to help us move up and on, but lets not spend an episode of Dot, Ian and Sharon talking about how they miss Ethel or else there will be nothing for them to talk about in another 40 years. Or would we by then want Liam, Cindy and Lola talking about how much they miss Ian.

Can I also just echo what the OP said about Dexter and Fatboy, whilst, they're not my favourite characters they are very true to life and very popular with the younger viewers who are a large proportion of viewing figures. Dexter, Fatboy and Nancy all won best newcomer at the BSAs because they are great lifelike additions to the show. EastEnders need more characters like this. While they don't have to be young they should at least be someone I could find in my local markets or watering holes.
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Old 15-09-2014, 10:47
vaslav37
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The R & R should be turned into a start up place for some media types- what EE has always struggled with is middle class educated characters and i would like to see this rectified.
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Old 15-09-2014, 11:16
lou_123
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What EastEnders WAS and SHOULD BE is a close enough representation of the times. This is what the OP is suggesting and the OP has it 100% right. The production at EastEnders should stop worrying about the old people think about their beloved show. Old people are closer to death and therefore shouldn't be dictating the future if something of which they have no part in. A little harsh, but my point is that the show should not be some nostalgic mishmash of what it once used to be. Because that is never what it was. Nods to the past are fine as the past is something we use in our everyday lives to help us move up and on, but lets not spend an episode of Dot, Ian and Sharon talking about how they miss Ethel or else there will be nothing for them to talk about in another 40 years. Or would we by then want Liam, Cindy and Lola talking about how much they miss Ian.

Can I also just echo what the OP said about Dexter and Fatboy, whilst, they're not my favourite characters they are very true to life and very popular with the younger viewers who are a large proportion of viewing figures. Dexter, Fatboy and Nancy all won best newcomer at the BSAs because they are great lifelike additions to the show. EastEnders need more characters like this. While they don't have to be young they should at least be someone I could find in my local markets or watering holes.
No one cares what decade it's in, they care about characters and storylines, people don't watch the show because it has hipsters or jam jar cocktails, therefore the show is fine as it is, when it comes to 'the times'.
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Old 15-09-2014, 12:59
cas1977
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The R & R should be turned into a start up place for some media types- what EE has always struggled with is middle class educated characters and i would like to see this rectified.
EE always was, is and hopefully always will be a proper working class "kitchen sink" drama, and I think that is why middle class characters have never worked there. Apart from Wilmott Brown but that was for a particular storyline.
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Old 15-09-2014, 13:05
cas1977
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I love EastEnders but I think it needs to be more authentic. DTC is already doing loads - well, he has saved the show and should be praised to the hilt for his brilliant work - to make the show more authentic, but there needs to be more. The great thing about EastEnders in the early days was that whilst being a drama with great characters and great storylines, it was still authentic - Walford was a real reflection of EastEnders in the 1980s. I have suggestions about how it could go back to that:

1) Ethnic diversity. Where are the Somali diaspora who live in social housing estates in the East End? Where is the huge Bangladeshi diaspora who live in Newham and Tower Hamlets? There are no West African characters? I am not calling for East End to be a carbon copy of reality or token characters for a tick box exercise but genuine representation of these groups with characters who actually fit the mould. How about some (albeit minor) storylines built around these groups for eg. an asylum case with a Somali refugee or an exorcism storyline with a dodgy "pastor"? Also, the extras need to be more diverse too - again, not tokenism but real EastEnders whether it be new West African market stallholders (as extras), Muslim extras dressed in cultural attire etc.

2) Hipsters and tech entrepreneurs. DTC mentioned it and we have Blades and The Albert which represent that type of East Londoner. However, he should go further and introduce hipsters into the cast not jut as extras who work in The Albert. Maybe Zsa Zsa returns as a hipster (which would make sense) with a hipster boyfriend too? Or a hipster befriends the Carters. Also, tech entrepreneurs, many of whom work in Tech City in Old Street, have also flocked to the East End. How about a character who is a tech entrepeneur who brings his 'Tech City' social circle to Walford? Or maybe he launches a new tech start-up in Walford? There are enough bars and restaurants in Walford.

3) Bring back Walford Towers. A housing estate in East London which is outside the Square makes complete sense. There is no point for all the characters to live on The Square seeing as it just isn't realistic. It could also house many of the cultural groups that I have already mentioned. I would suggest that Kat and Alfie move there after they become homeless. Walford Towers could also be under threat because the council wants to make way for gentrification of the area (something that is actually happening in Newham). People forget that Kathy and Pete used to live there and so did the Jacksons before they moved to the Square.

4) More MCLE. Cockney is no longer the order of the day. It's gone to areas like Sittingbourne, Swale, Medway, Southend and Basildon as opposed to the East End where it originates from and it is replaced by Multicultural London English. Where Cockney is spoken, it is mainly by those from an older generation. I am not saying for a second that there should be no more Cockney in EastEnders but it is ludicrous that only two characters - Dexter and Fatboy (who are reviled characters on DS in spite of being popular with viewers) actually speak it! There should be more characters who speak MCLE and actors too.
Talking about bringing "hipsters" into EE is a bit like someone in the 1980s complaining that there isn't many yuppies in EE. Which if I remember, there really wasn't that many.

All the ethnic types of people you talk about, imo wouldn't work, as for the majority of people they wouldn't be interesting to them, and at the end of the day, a producer could bring in 50 somalians but if they can't get stories to suit them then it'll never work.

Imagine the front covers of soap gossip magazines, imo, people are used to and want to carry on seeing Kat and Alfie, Mick and Linda, Max and whoever on the front covers, BUT if you were to replace this by featuring chinese,/oriental, bengali, somalí, or any of that type on the front cover, it'll die a death.

It seems that recently it's been quite fashionable for posters to start complaining about the lack of "ethnic diversity" on EE
I just hope that England can keep one thing back that is just basically English and nothing else.
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Old 15-09-2014, 13:16
Chris Mark
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Talking about bringing "hipsters" into EE is a bit like someone in the 1980s complaining that there isn't many yuppies in EE. Which if I remember, there really wasn't that many.

All the ethnic types of people you talk about, imo wouldn't work, as for the majority of people they wouldn't be interesting to them, and at the end of the day, a producer could bring in 50 somalians but if they can't get stories to suit them then it'll never work.

Imagine the front covers of soap gossip magazines, imo, people are used to and want to carry on seeing Kat and Alfie, Mick and Linda, Max and whoever on the front covers, BUT if you were to replace this by featuring chinese,/oriental, bengali, somalí, or any of that type on the front cover, it'll die a death.

It seems that recently it's been quite fashionable for posters to start complaining about the lack of "ethnic diversity" on EE
I just hope that England can keep one thing back that is just basically English and nothing else.
English culture is doing pretty alright, the world's most widely spoken language is English and English culture is under no threat whatsoever.
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Old 15-09-2014, 15:00
BadLadAsh
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Leave it as it is, who wants to watch hipsters and arty farty types over the likes of Phil and Stacey. Certainly not me.
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Old 15-09-2014, 15:05
The_abbott
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If You were producer OP and made all these changes I'd switch off!

There is no point watching a TV programme where you cannot understand the characters (Dexter and Fatboy are good examples of this). EE is not a documentary its a fictional soap thats not set in the real world.

I agree there should be more ethinic background extras and an expanded set but there is probably a limit to what they can do on the EE lot.
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Old 15-09-2014, 15:56
lou_123
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If You were producer OP and made all these changes I'd switch off!

There is no point watching a TV programme where you cannot understand the characters (Dexter and Fatboy are good examples of this). EE is not a documentary its a fictional soap thats not set in the real world.

I agree there should be more ethinic background extras and an expanded set but there is probably a limit to what they can do on the EE lot.
This is so true, some people on digital spy come up with some daft things, that would absolutely destroy eastenders IMO.
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Old 15-09-2014, 15:59
lou_123
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Leave it as it is, who wants to watch hipsters and arty farty types over the likes of Phil and Stacey. Certainly not me.
Exactly, I watch eastenders for drama, gritiness and because it's full of great characters, I couldn't give a flying **** if it represents the East End or not. I'd rather see stacey jumping on coffins and max being buried alive, than hipsters drinking out of jam jars, and hardly any english speaking characters :/
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Old 15-09-2014, 15:59
GeekInfected
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If You were producer OP and made all these changes I'd switch off!

There is no point watching a TV programme where you cannot understand the characters (Dexter and Fatboy are good examples of this). EE is not a documentary its a fictional soap thats not set in the real world.

I agree there should be more ethinic background extras and an expanded set but there is probably a limit to what they can do on the EE lot.
For me, this incorrect statement invalidates your whole post.
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Old 15-09-2014, 16:11
lou_123
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For me, this incorrect statement invalidates your whole post.
Erm no, how about you stop being stupid and rude saying the comment is 'invalid', what he is saying is right, you want EastEnders to be something it isn't, it's about gritty storylines and drama, and characters we love, not dexter and fatboy smoking weed at a cocktail bar:/
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Old 15-09-2014, 17:16
vaslav37
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Leave it as it is, who wants to watch hipsters and arty farty types over the likes of Phil and Stacey. Certainly not me.
I dislike the saying 'Arty Farty Types' - the Actors in EE are working in an Arts career- that of an Actor! so in a way your actually calling them arty Farty types for wanting a career as an Actor!
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Old 15-09-2014, 17:18
J-B
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I won't rest until every minority is represented accurately to 2 decimal places. If that means we end up with 0.67 Polish people then so be it.
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Old 15-09-2014, 17:29
BadLadAsh
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I dislike the saying 'Arty Farty Types' - the Actors in EE are working in an Arts career- that of an Actor! so in a way your actually calling them arty Farty types for wanting a career as an Actor!
The characters aren't though and that is what we are discussing.
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