Originally Posted by heiker:
“Look.....Pete's trying to act
”
“Look.....Pete's trying to act
”
And failing miserably, what's he so upset about anyway, it was never likely to be his baby.
Emmerdaily - 16/09/14 - Megan Macey Meddles Making Much More Misery
14 of 16
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“Donna, Debbie, whoever, I wouldn't have gone after them. No point trying to corner them in private as their bound to stick to their story unless they've got Edna's morals for truth, but I wouldn't go after them in public, in case they really were telling the truth and made me look like total idiot!”
“Donna, Debbie, whoever, I wouldn't have gone after them. No point trying to corner them in private as their bound to stick to their story unless they've got Edna's morals for truth, but I wouldn't go after them in public, in case they really were telling the truth and made me look like total idiot!
”
Edna, Morals, Truth never agai to be used in the same sentence.
Originally Posted by kwynne42:
“Seriously?? you all know how much I hate him but he has just heard PinnochiEdna just admit she shopped a gay man to the police, had him sent to jail and caused him to commit suicide and you expect him to be sympathetic?”
“Seriously?? you all know how much I hate him but he has just heard PinnochiEdna just admit she shopped a gay man to the police, had him sent to jail and caused him to commit suicide and you expect him to be sympathetic?”
Tbf, it must have been 50 years ago! a) homosexuality was indeed illegal and b) can you even begin to imagine how devastated she must have been to discover that the husband she loved and lay next to in bed every night was gay?
Analysis centrals review of the many lies, secrets and untruths of Pinnochiedna.
So lets see Edna steals her sisters baby and lies to her son and later grandchildren for almost her son's entire life, only being forced to tell the truth when her sister finally forces her too.
And then living a lie for many years according to her anyway chooses to continue for many years being with a man she knew to be gay and in a relationship with another man. She she shop both men into the police and gets one of them sent ot prison wherupon he commits suicide, then keeps these things secret while proclaiming to be all holier than thou to everyone she meets, she is intolerant of people she thinks as uncrhristian way, what a total hate hypocrite, when she dies Pinnochiedna is going straight to hell.
And how old is Edna anyway, being gay became fully legal in 1967, 47 years ago, she claimed to live with her husband while knowing the truth for many years but that can't be true either can it.
Another of her many lies.
So lets see Edna steals her sisters baby and lies to her son and later grandchildren for almost her son's entire life, only being forced to tell the truth when her sister finally forces her too.
And then living a lie for many years according to her anyway chooses to continue for many years being with a man she knew to be gay and in a relationship with another man. She she shop both men into the police and gets one of them sent ot prison wherupon he commits suicide, then keeps these things secret while proclaiming to be all holier than thou to everyone she meets, she is intolerant of people she thinks as uncrhristian way, what a total hate hypocrite, when she dies Pinnochiedna is going straight to hell.
And how old is Edna anyway, being gay became fully legal in 1967, 47 years ago, she claimed to live with her husband while knowing the truth for many years but that can't be true either can it.
Another of her many lies.
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“Tbf, it must have been 50 years ago! a) homosexuality was indeed illegal and b) can you even begin to imagine how devastated she must have been to discover that the husband she loved and lay next to in bed every night was gay?”
“Tbf, it must have been 50 years ago! a) homosexuality was indeed illegal and b) can you even begin to imagine how devastated she must have been to discover that the husband she loved and lay next to in bed every night was gay?
”
47 in fact since it was made legal, timeline doesn't really work so she's lieing again no doubt, going to distrust anything she says from now on.
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“Tbf, it must have been 50 years ago! a) homosexuality was indeed illegal and b) can you even begin to imagine how devastated she must have been to discover that the husband she loved and lay next to in bed every night was gay?”
“Tbf, it must have been 50 years ago! a) homosexuality was indeed illegal and b) can you even begin to imagine how devastated she must have been to discover that the husband she loved and lay next to in bed every night was gay?
”
But many would find what she did to be unforgivable. She acted in her own self-interest and it indirectly led to the death of someone that her husband loved. I have very little sympathy for her at the moment and someone like Aaron would be appalled by her behavior as it would confirm every negative thing he imagined about her. I am sure as the storyline develops we may find that it is not as straightforward as it seems and Edna may be painted in a much more sympathetic light.
Originally Posted by ArtyAttack:
“But many would find what she did to be unforgivable. She acted in her own self-interest and it indirectly led to the death of someone that her husband loved. I have very little sympathy for her at the moment and someone like Aaron would be appalled by her behavior as it would confirm every negative thing he imagined about her. I am sure as the storyline develops we may find that it is not as straightforward as it seems and Edna may be painted in a much more sympathetic light.”
“But many would find what she did to be unforgivable. She acted in her own self-interest and it indirectly led to the death of someone that her husband loved. I have very little sympathy for her at the moment and someone like Aaron would be appalled by her behavior as it would confirm every negative thing he imagined about her. I am sure as the storyline develops we may find that it is not as straightforward as it seems and Edna may be painted in a much more sympathetic light.”
The amazingly Supremely Brilliantly wonderfully acting involved in the Aaron Character.
Aarons prison acting has been refined some more he has taken it to whole new levels he is so good at and he rocks greys and blue's doesn't he wnad wears a tabbard like he was made for it.
In this episode he did some classic Aaronisms
He stroked his chin
He stroked his arm
He stroked his chin some more.
He put on a look of blank puzzlement while Edna was telling him about a load of lies and untruths.
The he walked away so he didn't have to tell her what a bad person he was.
Isn't he wonderful siggghhhh.
Originally Posted by kwynne42:
“Analysis centrals review of the many lies, secrets and untruths of Pinnochiedna.
So lets see Edna steals her sisters baby and lies to her son and later grandchildren for almost her son's entire life, only being forced to tell the truth when her sister finally forces her too.
And then living a lie for many years according to her anyway chooses to continue for many years being with a man she knew to be gay and in a relationship with another man. She she shop both men into the police and gets one of them sent ot prison wherupon he commits suicide, then keeps these things secret while proclaiming to be all holier than thou to everyone she meets, she is intolerant of people she thinks as uncrhristian way, what a total hate hypocrite, when she dies Pinnochiedna is going straight to hell.
And how old is Edna anyway, being gay became fully legal in 1967, 47 years ago, she claimed to live with her husband while knowing the truth for many years but that can't be true either can it.
Another of her many lies.”
“Analysis centrals review of the many lies, secrets and untruths of Pinnochiedna.
So lets see Edna steals her sisters baby and lies to her son and later grandchildren for almost her son's entire life, only being forced to tell the truth when her sister finally forces her too.
And then living a lie for many years according to her anyway chooses to continue for many years being with a man she knew to be gay and in a relationship with another man. She she shop both men into the police and gets one of them sent ot prison wherupon he commits suicide, then keeps these things secret while proclaiming to be all holier than thou to everyone she meets, she is intolerant of people she thinks as uncrhristian way, what a total hate hypocrite, when she dies Pinnochiedna is going straight to hell.
And how old is Edna anyway, being gay became fully legal in 1967, 47 years ago, she claimed to live with her husband while knowing the truth for many years but that can't be true either can it.
Another of her many lies.”
You do talk bo11ocks sometimes kwynne.
'Edna' is 77, (the actress is 74). So Edna was 30 before homosexuality was technically legalised, so yes, she probably married young, (as most women did back then, when their only real function in life was to marry and have kids).
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“You do talk bo11ocks sometimes kwynne. 'Edna' is 77, (the actress is 74). So Edna was 30 before homosexuality was technically legalised, so yes, she probably married young, (as most women did back then, when their only real function in life was to marry and have kids). ”
“You do talk bo11ocks sometimes kwynne.
'Edna' is 77, (the actress is 74). So Edna was 30 before homosexuality was technically legalised, so yes, she probably married young, (as most women did back then, when their only real function in life was to marry and have kids). ”
Thank you now I know i'll Allow her that one.
You should know by know I often talk bollocks which doesn't appear to be everyone's cup of tea and I appear to have caused upset again.
Originally Posted by ArtyAttack:
“But many would find what she did to be unforgivable. She acted in her own self-interest and it indirectly led to the death of someone that her husband loved. I have very little sympathy for her at the moment and someone like Aaron would be appalled by her behavior as it would confirm every negative thing he imagined about her. I am sure as the storyline develops we may find that it is not as straightforward as it seems and Edna may be painted in a much more sympathetic light.”
“But many would find what she did to be unforgivable. She acted in her own self-interest and it indirectly led to the death of someone that her husband loved. I have very little sympathy for her at the moment and someone like Aaron would be appalled by her behavior as it would confirm every negative thing he imagined about her. I am sure as the storyline develops we may find that it is not as straightforward as it seems and Edna may be painted in a much more sympathetic light.”
I think it's very important that we don't try to judge historical standards by today's standards.
The simple fact is that back then, however wrong, homosexuality was illegal. Totally devastated by her adored husband's betrayal, (and it would still be betrayal today, just as it was then), she reported the crime. I doubt she did it out of malice - more out of some vain hope that if her husband's lover was out of the way, her husband would somehow 'see sense' and come back to her. Obviously she had no way of knowing that the lover would kill himself. She's felt guilty about it ever since.
Originally Posted by kwynne42:
“Thank you now I know i'll Allow her that one.
You should know by know I often talk bollocks which doesn't appear to be everyone's cup of tea and I appear to have caused upset again.”
“Thank you now I know i'll Allow her that one.
You should know by know I often talk bollocks which doesn't appear to be everyone's cup of tea and I appear to have caused upset again.”
Hey, it's just your way kwynne, and whilst I might occasionally try, (probably arrogantly), to set you straight, I love you to bits and you brighten up my mornings here on DS. 
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“ Hey, it's just your way kwynne, and whilst I might occasionally try, (probably arrogantly), to set you straight, I love you to bits and you brighten up my mornings here on DS. ”
“
Hey, it's just your way kwynne, and whilst I might occasionally try, (probably arrogantly), to set you straight, I love you to bits and you brighten up my mornings here on DS. ”
Its probably best you try and set me straight heh, love you too by the way.
Anyway a certain person takes offence to me no matter what I say and is very rude about it. But neve mind ehh worse things happen in soap and at sea.
Originally Posted by kwynne42:
“Its probably best you try and set me straight heh, love you too by the way.
Anyway a certain person takes offence to me no matter what I say and is very rude about it. But neve mind ehh worse things happen in soap and at sea.”
“Its probably best you try and set me straight heh, love you too by the way.
Anyway a certain person takes offence to me no matter what I say and is very rude about it. But neve mind ehh worse things happen in soap and at sea.
”
He really doesn't. He takes offence when you use your own inimitable blunt style of posting that can come across as patronising, or even ever so slightly rude on occasion.But as you say, worse things happen at sea and some people will always rub each other up the wrong way and it's no biggie. I often fail, (
), but I do try my best to strategically sit on my hands from time to time. 
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“ He really doesn't. He takes offence when you use your own inimitable blunt style of posting that can come across as patronising, or even ever so slightly rude on occasion.
But as you say, worse things happen at sea and some people will always rub each other up the wrong way and it's no biggie. I often fail, (), but I do try my best to strategically sit on my hands from time to time. ”
“
He really doesn't. He takes offence when you use your own inimitable blunt style of posting that can come across as patronising, or even ever so slightly rude on occasion.But as you say, worse things happen at sea and some people will always rub each other up the wrong way and it's no biggie. I often fail, (
), but I do try my best to strategically sit on my hands from time to time. ”
Well he could tell me that rather than insult me and say nasty things about me personnaly, I might be blunt, rude or pratonising sometimes without meaning to, (I have terrible social skills you see
) but I would always try and avoid insulting them by name.
Originally Posted by kwynne42:
“And failing miserably, what's he so upset about anyway, it was never likely to be his baby.”
“And failing miserably, what's he so upset about anyway, it was never likely to be his baby.”
Yes it would have been.
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“Megan's gripe is with a Charity, which is fair enough as Charity has lied. Debbie however has only tried to help her mother, which anybody would do ( you help your parents, you stick up for them and protect them just like they would for you because, well their your parents) , and to start with she wasn't happy to either, until Chas pushed her into it. Megan has no problem with Debbie and telling her to tell a a packed pub she'd had an abortion was just spiteful. It's not exactly something nice to broadcast to all and sundry! Mud sticks, no matter how much that person would say otherwise afterwards, there'd always be those pointing and spouting hear say behind their back.”
“Megan's gripe is with a Charity, which is fair enough as Charity has lied. Debbie however has only tried to help her mother, which anybody would do ( you help your parents, you stick up for them and protect them just like they would for you because, well their your parents) , and to start with she wasn't happy to either, until Chas pushed her into it. Megan has no problem with Debbie and telling her to tell a a packed pub she'd had an abortion was just spiteful. It's not exactly something nice to broadcast to all and sundry! Mud sticks, no matter how much that person would say otherwise afterwards, there'd always be those pointing and spouting hear say behind their back.”
Debbie involved herself in Charity and Megan's gripe by lying. Megan's own brother hates her because of Charity and now, Debbie. She had every right to try and expose her lie. I would never lie about having a miscarriage to help my mum and if my mum was the type of person who would ask that of me, we wouldn't have a relationship.
Originally Posted by SULLA:
“For starters, Megan pushed her over, knowing that she was pregnant...fact
Charity married Declan because she loved him. She just didn't want any more children.”
“For starters, Megan pushed her over, knowing that she was pregnant...fact
Charity married Declan because she loved him. She just didn't want any more children.”
Nope, that's not a fact. She didn't push her at all. Charity grabbed Megan's arm and Megan pulled her arm back.
Why does it matter that Charity didn't want kids? She had every right to have an abortion, but she didn't have every right to have an abortion, claim she had a miscarriage, blame her fake miscarriage on Megan and then drag her own daughter into her lie.
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“But Charity does love Declan, she just doesn't want a baby. Debbie isn't helping trick a man stay married to someone who doesn't love him, she's trying to make sure her mum stays with a man she loves. A man who is quite ruthless enough to kill her if he found out the truth, I'm sure Debbie doesn't want to risk her mother getting killed because she wouldn't back up her story! If that happened, not only would she have lost her mum, she'd blame herself - imagine thinking you'd helped cause the death of your own mother.
If memory serves me right, Charity only waited until after the honeymoon, because Declan purposefully booked it so that it would be too late for an abortion to take place. I'm not making excuses for her, and lying about a miscarriage was wrong, but she didn't intend to wait until after her honeymoon, it was Declan's doing that caused that.”
“But Charity does love Declan, she just doesn't want a baby. Debbie isn't helping trick a man stay married to someone who doesn't love him, she's trying to make sure her mum stays with a man she loves. A man who is quite ruthless enough to kill her if he found out the truth, I'm sure Debbie doesn't want to risk her mother getting killed because she wouldn't back up her story! If that happened, not only would she have lost her mum, she'd blame herself - imagine thinking you'd helped cause the death of your own mother
. If memory serves me right, Charity only waited until after the honeymoon, because Declan purposefully booked it so that it would be too late for an abortion to take place. I'm not making excuses for her, and lying about a miscarriage was wrong, but she didn't intend to wait until after her honeymoon, it was Declan's doing that caused that.”
So Debbie wants her mum to stay married to a psychopath to avoid her being murdered by a psychopath? For some reason, I believe that's a massive stretch. Charity is tricking Declan. She married him for his money only and pretended to grieve for a baby she actually aborted. If she doesn't want a baby, that's fine. She needs to be honest. I can't believe people are defending what's going on. Putting the fake miscarriage to the side for a minute, she's still destroyed Declan's relationship with his sister. That's love?
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“Good point, you can't 'kill' a baby when it isn't a baby. And its Charity's choice, if she doesn't want a baby she shouldn't have to have one, who does Declan think he is anyway, demanding his wife gives him a child, he sounds like something out of times gone by.”
“Good point, you can't 'kill' a baby when it isn't a baby. And its Charity's choice, if she doesn't want a baby she shouldn't have to have one, who does Declan think he is anyway, demanding his wife gives him a child, he sounds like something out of times gone by.”
That wasn't how it was though was it. Charity announced she was pregnant, and decided she would pretend that she wanted it until after the wedding and then get rid of it. Declan didn't push her into anything. He just really wanted a child to replace Mia and she lied and let him believe she would give him one.
Originally Posted by Pandora.:
“Not getting all the vitriol for Megan
”
“Not getting all the vitriol for Megan
”
Me either.
Originally Posted by star89:
“That wasn't Collie's point Her point was Debbie is being loyal to her mum. Just like I would to mine, in most situations.
And I wouldn't have done what Megan did because I have this thing called tact. I'd have confronted Debbie, yes but alone, not in front of her partner and the entire pub!”
“That wasn't Collie's point
Her point was Debbie is being loyal to her mum. Just like I would to mine, in most situations. And I wouldn't have done what Megan did because I have this thing called tact. I'd have confronted Debbie, yes but alone, not in front of her partner and the entire pub!”
In which you would have got no result because she would have just carried on with the lie. Both Debbie and Megan are victims here and they are victims of a selfish, lying, manipulative, evil cow called Charity. It's her you should be so angry with, she caused all of this.
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“But Charity does love Declan, she just doesn't want a baby. Debbie isn't helping trick a man stay married to someone who doesn't love him, she's trying to make sure her mum stays with a man she loves. A man who is quite ruthless enough to kill her if he found out the truth, I'm sure Debbie doesn't want to risk her mother getting killed because she wouldn't back up her story! If that happened, not only would she have lost her mum, she'd blame herself - imagine thinking you'd helped cause the death of your own mother.
If memory serves me right, Charity only waited until after the honeymoon, because Declan purposefully booked it so that it would be too late for an abortion to take place. I'm not making excuses for her, and lying about a miscarriage was wrong, but she didn't intend to wait until after her honeymoon, it was Declan's doing that caused that.”
“But Charity does love Declan, she just doesn't want a baby. Debbie isn't helping trick a man stay married to someone who doesn't love him, she's trying to make sure her mum stays with a man she loves. A man who is quite ruthless enough to kill her if he found out the truth, I'm sure Debbie doesn't want to risk her mother getting killed because she wouldn't back up her story! If that happened, not only would she have lost her mum, she'd blame herself - imagine thinking you'd helped cause the death of your own mother
. If memory serves me right, Charity only waited until after the honeymoon, because Declan purposefully booked it so that it would be too late for an abortion to take place. I'm not making excuses for her, and lying about a miscarriage was wrong, but she didn't intend to wait until after her honeymoon, it was Declan's doing that caused that.”
Charity should not have made him believe that she did want a baby with him then.
No Declan booked the honeymoon as a surprise - not so that she couldn't get an abortion! It was a romantic gesture to the woman he loved, turns out she had an abortion booked that same day.
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“I think it's very important that we don't try to judge historical standards by today's standards.
The simple fact is that back then, however wrong, homosexuality was illegal. Totally devastated by her adored husband's betrayal, (and it would still be betrayal today, just as it was then), she reported the crime. I doubt she did it out of malice - more out of some vain hope that if her husband's lover was out of the way, her husband would somehow 'see sense' and come back to her. Obviously she had no way of knowing that the lover would kill himself. She's felt guilty about it ever since.”
“I think it's very important that we don't try to judge historical standards by today's standards.
The simple fact is that back then, however wrong, homosexuality was illegal. Totally devastated by her adored husband's betrayal, (and it would still be betrayal today, just as it was then), she reported the crime. I doubt she did it out of malice - more out of some vain hope that if her husband's lover was out of the way, her husband would somehow 'see sense' and come back to her. Obviously she had no way of knowing that the lover would kill himself. She's felt guilty about it ever since.
”
I'm sure when Edna first started this story that she knew that her husband was gay with Lawrence from the off (hence her being a virgin) their marriage was never consummated. I see your point but she didn't feel betrayal since she was aware that it had been happening for a long time. I don't blame her for what she did nor do I think she was in the wrong especially with her being a devout christian woman. It's a devastating thing to have to live with, I expect. I think it came from a place of jealousy more than betrayal. Especially with what she said before "I wish he looked at me the way he looked at him" - that's as close as I can remember it anyway.
Originally Posted by Stupid_Head:
“I don't even know why Debbie shows such blind devotion to her mother, whenever stuff gets bad for her it's always Cain who comes through for her not Charity who is too busy conning whichever rich bloke she has her claws into at the time.”
“I don't even know why Debbie shows such blind devotion to her mother, whenever stuff gets bad for her it's always Cain who comes through for her not Charity who is too busy conning whichever rich bloke she has her claws into at the time.”
However bad a mother Charity is, she's the only one Debbie's got or is ever going to have, I don think its difficult to see why she'd cling on to her. Cain again, certainly in the past not the best dad, but still the only one Debbie's got.
I also think a Declan is at fault to an extent in this, if he hadn't been trying to force Charity into having a baby she clearly didn't want, she wouldn't have felt the need to go to the extremes of faking loosing one. He knew her marriage to Jai fell apart because she didn't want another kid, he knew she wanted a baby like a hole in the head, but he still put pressure on her to have one. So he should take some responsibility for this almighty f**k up.
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“I've started watching live and not posting live. Just taking a break. ”
“I've started watching live and not posting live.
Just taking a break. ”
Noooooo you can't stop posting!! The Daily feels odd, like a jigsaw with a missing piece.
Originally Posted by samcains90:
“That wasn't how it was though was it. Charity announced she was pregnant, and decided she would pretend that she wanted it until after the wedding and then get rid of it. Declan didn't push her into anything. He just really wanted a child to replace Mia and she lied and let him believe she would give him one.”
“That wasn't how it was though was it. Charity announced she was pregnant, and decided she would pretend that she wanted it until after the wedding and then get rid of it. Declan didn't push her into anything. He just really wanted a child to replace Mia and she lied and let him believe she would give him one.”
Agreed. She did what she did purely to get her hands on Home Farm.
I know we're now supposed to think she's genuinely fallen in love with Declan, and maybe she has, but she certainly wasn't in love with him when she went for the abortion.
Quote:
“Charity should not have made him believe that she did want a baby with him then.
No Declan booked the honeymoon as a surprise - not so that she couldn't get an abortion! It was a romantic gesture to the woman he loved, turns out she had an abortion booked that same day.”
“Charity should not have made him believe that she did want a baby with him then.
No Declan booked the honeymoon as a surprise - not so that she couldn't get an abortion! It was a romantic gesture to the woman he loved, turns out she had an abortion booked that same day.”
All true.
Quote:
“I'm sure when Edna first started this story that she knew that her husband was gay with Lawrence from the off (hence her being a virgin) their marriage was never consummated. I see your point but she didn't feel betrayal since she was aware that it had been happening for a long time. I don't blame her for what she did nor do I think she was in the wrong especially with her being a devout christian woman. It's a devastating thing to have to live with, I expect. I think it came from a place of jealousy more than betrayal. Especially with what she said before "I wish he looked at me the way he looked at him" - that's as close as I can remember it anyway.”
“I'm sure when Edna first started this story that she knew that her husband was gay with Lawrence from the off (hence her being a virgin) their marriage was never consummated. I see your point but she didn't feel betrayal since she was aware that it had been happening for a long time. I don't blame her for what she did nor do I think she was in the wrong especially with her being a devout christian woman. It's a devastating thing to have to live with, I expect. I think it came from a place of jealousy more than betrayal. Especially with what she said before "I wish he looked at me the way he looked at him" - that's as close as I can remember it anyway.
”
I may have missed something, but I can't believe for a second that she married him knowing he was homosexual, although I agree she probably realised very soon after that he had just married her for purposes of his own respectability.
Another thing we should remember when criticising Charity - she knows that Declan started the fire and that he can be very unstable when pushed to the edge. She could possibly be really afraid of what might happen to her should the truth come out, so she made up the Debbie thing on the spur of the moment to try to head him off. I'm sure she never intended Megan to find out (and she did try to bury the hatchet in yesterday's episode).
I think she's got herself into a difficult situation and just doesn't quite know how to get herself out.
Still think she was wrong though to have the abortion - she should have had the baby - it would have cemented her position with Declan absolutely...
I think she's got herself into a difficult situation and just doesn't quite know how to get herself out.
Still think she was wrong though to have the abortion - she should have had the baby - it would have cemented her position with Declan absolutely...
Originally Posted by Alleycat666:
“Another thing we should remember when criticising Charity - she knows that Declan started the fire and that he can be very unstable when pushed to the edge. She could possibly be really afraid of what might happen to her should the truth come out, so she made up the Debbie thing on the spur of the moment to try to head him off. I'm sure she never intended Megan to find out (and she did try to bury the hatchet in yesterday's episode).
I think she's got herself into a difficult situation and just doesn't quite know how to get herself out.
Still think she was wrong though to have the abortion - she should have had the baby - it would have cemented her position with Declan absolutely...”
“Another thing we should remember when criticising Charity - she knows that Declan started the fire and that he can be very unstable when pushed to the edge. She could possibly be really afraid of what might happen to her should the truth come out, so she made up the Debbie thing on the spur of the moment to try to head him off. I'm sure she never intended Megan to find out (and she did try to bury the hatchet in yesterday's episode).
I think she's got herself into a difficult situation and just doesn't quite know how to get herself out.
Still think she was wrong though to have the abortion - she should have had the baby - it would have cemented her position with Declan absolutely...”
Nah, Declan wasn't dangerous to anyone but himself when he started the fire. He had no way of knowing Megan would turn up.
And there was nothing 'spur of the moment' about Charity's lie about Debbie. She'd already tried unsuccessfully to persuade Chas to say she had the abortion. Chas refused, so in her usual desperate effort to save her own skin, she put Debbie in the frame instead.
Debbie would have done her mum a favour if she'd only had the guts to put an end to the whole thing there and then.
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“Agreed. She did what she did purely to get her hands on Home Farm. I know we're now supposed to think she's genuinely fallen in love with Declan, and maybe she has, but she certainly wasn't in love with him when she went for the abortion.”
“Agreed. She did what she did purely to get her hands on Home Farm.
I know we're now supposed to think she's genuinely fallen in love with Declan, and maybe she has, but she certainly wasn't in love with him when she went for the abortion.”
Yep, if she has really fallen in love with him, which I do believe she has, she wasn't then and it doesn't excuse what she did.
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“All true.”
“All true.
”
Thanks
Originally Posted by Oldnjaded:
“I may have missed something, but I can't believe for a second that she married him knowing he was homosexual, although I agree she probably realised very soon after that he had just married her for purposes of his own respectability.”
“I may have missed something, but I can't believe for a second that she married him knowing he was homosexual, although I agree she probably realised very soon after that he had just married her for purposes of his own respectability.
”
I think you're right on that count. And what he did at the beginning would have hurt. When she shopped Lawrence though, I feel would have come from a place of jealousy and not betrayal. I feel sorry for all involved with Edna's history.
Originally Posted by Alleycat666:
“Another thing we should remember when criticising Charity - she knows that Declan started the fire and that he can be very unstable when pushed to the edge. She could possibly be really afraid of what might happen to her should the truth come out, so she made up the Debbie thing on the spur of the moment to try to head him off. I'm sure she never intended Megan to find out (and she did try to bury the hatchet in yesterday's episode).
I think she's got herself into a difficult situation and just doesn't quite know how to get herself out.
Still think she was wrong though to have the abortion - she should have had the baby - it would have cemented her position with Declan absolutely...”
“Another thing we should remember when criticising Charity - she knows that Declan started the fire and that he can be very unstable when pushed to the edge. She could possibly be really afraid of what might happen to her should the truth come out, so she made up the Debbie thing on the spur of the moment to try to head him off. I'm sure she never intended Megan to find out (and she did try to bury the hatchet in yesterday's episode).
I think she's got herself into a difficult situation and just doesn't quite know how to get herself out.
Still think she was wrong though to have the abortion - she should have had the baby - it would have cemented her position with Declan absolutely...”
Declan's ruthlessness may be scaring her, but somehow I don't think so. She's actually fallen in love with him since seeing how dangerous he can be. She saw him as weak before and this menacing side to him is what she has fallen in love with.
Edit: Plus what OldnJaded just said
Originally Posted by Pandora.:
“There was no pushing involved. Megan pulled away when Charity grabbed her arm IIRC.
She loves his money. You can see the pound signs in her eyes.”
“There was no pushing involved. Megan pulled away when Charity grabbed her arm IIRC.
She loves his money. You can see the pound signs in her eyes.”
Some people are naturally attracted to people with money. It doesn't make them bad people. Anyway. She says that she loves him and I believe her.
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“But Charity does love Declan, she just doesn't want a baby. Debbie isn't helping trick a man stay married to someone who doesn't love him, she's trying to make sure her mum stays with a man she loves. A man who is quite ruthless enough to kill her if he found out the truth, I'm sure Debbie doesn't want to risk her mother getting killed because she wouldn't back up her story! If that happened, not only would she have lost her mum, she'd blame herself - imagine thinking you'd helped cause the death of your own mother.
If memory serves me right, Charity only waited until after the honeymoon, because Declan purposefully booked it so that it would be too late for an abortion to take place. I'm not making excuses for her, and lying about a miscarriage was wrong, but she didn't intend to wait until after her honeymoon, it was Declan's doing that caused that.”
“But Charity does love Declan, she just doesn't want a baby. Debbie isn't helping trick a man stay married to someone who doesn't love him, she's trying to make sure her mum stays with a man she loves. A man who is quite ruthless enough to kill her if he found out the truth, I'm sure Debbie doesn't want to risk her mother getting killed because she wouldn't back up her story! If that happened, not only would she have lost her mum, she'd blame herself - imagine thinking you'd helped cause the death of your own mother
. If memory serves me right, Charity only waited until after the honeymoon, because Declan purposefully booked it so that it would be too late for an abortion to take place. I'm not making excuses for her, and lying about a miscarriage was wrong, but she didn't intend to wait until after her honeymoon, it was Declan's doing that caused that.”
Excellent post.
Originally Posted by Pandora.:
“One of the things I've really loved about this storyline is the way that nobody is black and white in their actions. Just about everyone involved has either made mistakes or behaved in a pretty disgusting way, but they tend to have had good intentions behind them or to have done some good deeds along the way too. It's making it very difficult to take sides tonight, since I love both Megan and Debbie and I think it's hard to say either of them can take the high ground here.
I think family loyalty plays a huge part in this story. We've seen it over the last week with Debbie lying for Charity, and it's been a very long running thread with Megan wanting to help Declan. In both cases I think it's understandable why they would act like this. Debbie was abandoned by Charity and Cain for so long, has had issues in the past with custody of Sarah (and with Sarah's health), and has a history of bad relationships. I don't think it's too far fetched to say that she would go very far to keep the family she has around her to make sure that she doesn't fall back into the problems of her past. Similarly Megan seems to have had a bit of an unstable upbringing (although not to the extent of Debbie's), there is unknown history surrounding her giving up her son, and suffering abuse at the hands of her brother. She showed unwavering loyalty to Declan at his lowest point, and I think that without her small family she would crumble. She doesn't seem to have had a great romantic history, and Declan seems to have been the only 'constant' in her life for a long time so I fully understand why she doesn't want to lose him.
In light of this, I think both have been driven to the point where they're going to do unreasonable things to protect what they have to. I think that few can say that Debbie is doing the right thing in pretending she had an abortion, but Chas and Charity and both guilty of guilt tripping her into it. Megan wasn't doing a great thing by confronting Debbie in the pub, but she has her heart in the right place and for all she knew Debbie would push the blame straight back on to Charity. I don't think there was any spite involved or any intent to ruin Debbie's relationship. Really, if she'd asked Debbie in private she would just keep up the act so it would defeat the point. Yes she could probably have found a better opportunity than in the pub, but remember that this is a woman driven to desperation after months of estrangement from her family.
Debbie and Megan have both been the victims of manipulation by Charity. Even Declan (IMO) told Megan about the 'Debbie's abortion' story because he knew she'd confront her about it. He's let her be arrested all as part of his revenge, so he's not exactly innocent himself. The same goes for Chas who's for some reason decided to bow to Charity and become her minion too.
While I'm here, I might as well say that I don't buy the "Charity really loves Declan" stuff for one minute, no matter how true it is. She manipulated him at a very low point, encouraging him to lie to his sister about the fire and to pin the blame on someone else for her own reasons. She's lied to him about having an abortion, manipulated him into cutting his only family off and used him purely for money back in January/Feb/whenever. That isn't the acts of anyone who loves Declan. IMO that is emotional abuse. Abortion isn't some little game she can play. She messed with emotions. Declan grieving for a child, Megan having to deal with the guilt of thinking she was responsible. She is an absolutely disgusting woman IMO. When she was getting her petty revenge on Jai it was fun to watch, but the more I think about it the more I see that there's nothing likable about her left. But as I said earlier, it's not all black and white and I can see why others still do like her.
So all in all, I'll say this. Personally I don't think Debbie should have lied for Charity. Not at all. If it was me, I would have cut Charity off a long time ago - I understand that it varies from person to person though, and that's fine. Similarly, I don't think that Megan had any malicious intent. She was driven to desperation and, though I wish she hadn't confronted Debbie in that way, I understand her reasons for it. I think both Megan and Debbie are just unfortunate victims of Charity's games. Nobody needs to pay, they just both need a hug from someone right now.”
“One of the things I've really loved about this storyline is the way that nobody is black and white in their actions. Just about everyone involved has either made mistakes or behaved in a pretty disgusting way, but they tend to have had good intentions behind them or to have done some good deeds along the way too. It's making it very difficult to take sides tonight, since I love both Megan and Debbie and I think it's hard to say either of them can take the high ground here.
I think family loyalty plays a huge part in this story. We've seen it over the last week with Debbie lying for Charity, and it's been a very long running thread with Megan wanting to help Declan. In both cases I think it's understandable why they would act like this. Debbie was abandoned by Charity and Cain for so long, has had issues in the past with custody of Sarah (and with Sarah's health), and has a history of bad relationships. I don't think it's too far fetched to say that she would go very far to keep the family she has around her to make sure that she doesn't fall back into the problems of her past. Similarly Megan seems to have had a bit of an unstable upbringing (although not to the extent of Debbie's), there is unknown history surrounding her giving up her son, and suffering abuse at the hands of her brother. She showed unwavering loyalty to Declan at his lowest point, and I think that without her small family she would crumble. She doesn't seem to have had a great romantic history, and Declan seems to have been the only 'constant' in her life for a long time so I fully understand why she doesn't want to lose him.
In light of this, I think both have been driven to the point where they're going to do unreasonable things to protect what they have to. I think that few can say that Debbie is doing the right thing in pretending she had an abortion, but Chas and Charity and both guilty of guilt tripping her into it. Megan wasn't doing a great thing by confronting Debbie in the pub, but she has her heart in the right place and for all she knew Debbie would push the blame straight back on to Charity. I don't think there was any spite involved or any intent to ruin Debbie's relationship. Really, if she'd asked Debbie in private she would just keep up the act so it would defeat the point. Yes she could probably have found a better opportunity than in the pub, but remember that this is a woman driven to desperation after months of estrangement from her family.
Debbie and Megan have both been the victims of manipulation by Charity. Even Declan (IMO) told Megan about the 'Debbie's abortion' story because he knew she'd confront her about it. He's let her be arrested all as part of his revenge, so he's not exactly innocent himself. The same goes for Chas who's for some reason decided to bow to Charity and become her minion too.
While I'm here, I might as well say that I don't buy the "Charity really loves Declan" stuff for one minute, no matter how true it is. She manipulated him at a very low point, encouraging him to lie to his sister about the fire and to pin the blame on someone else for her own reasons. She's lied to him about having an abortion, manipulated him into cutting his only family off and used him purely for money back in January/Feb/whenever. That isn't the acts of anyone who loves Declan. IMO that is emotional abuse. Abortion isn't some little game she can play. She messed with emotions. Declan grieving for a child, Megan having to deal with the guilt of thinking she was responsible. She is an absolutely disgusting woman IMO. When she was getting her petty revenge on Jai it was fun to watch, but the more I think about it the more I see that there's nothing likable about her left. But as I said earlier, it's not all black and white and I can see why others still do like her.
So all in all, I'll say this. Personally I don't think Debbie should have lied for Charity. Not at all. If it was me, I would have cut Charity off a long time ago - I understand that it varies from person to person though, and that's fine. Similarly, I don't think that Megan had any malicious intent. She was driven to desperation and, though I wish she hadn't confronted Debbie in that way, I understand her reasons for it. I think both Megan and Debbie are just unfortunate victims of Charity's games. Nobody needs to pay, they just both need a hug from someone right now.
”
An excellent read but I just can't agree
Quote:
“I bloody hate Charity.”
“I bloody hate Charity.”
You are clearly biased.
Originally Posted by kwynne42:
“Seriously?? you all know how much I hate him but he has just heard PinnochiEdna just admit she shopped a gay man to the police, had him sent to jail and caused him to commit suicide and you expect him to be sympathetic?”
“Seriously?? you all know how much I hate him but he has just heard PinnochiEdna just admit she shopped a gay man to the police, had him sent to jail and caused him to commit suicide and you expect him to be sympathetic?”
Originally Posted by kwynne42:
“Analysis centrals review of the many lies, secrets and untruths of Pinnochiedna.
So lets see Edna steals her sisters baby and lies to her son and later grandchildren for almost her son's entire life, only being forced to tell the truth when her sister finally forces her too.
And then living a lie for many years according to her anyway chooses to continue for many years being with a man she knew to be gay and in a relationship with another man. She she shop both men into the police and gets one of them sent ot prison wherupon he commits suicide, then keeps these things secret while proclaiming to be all holier than thou to everyone she meets, she is intolerant of people she thinks as uncrhristian way, what a total hate hypocrite, when she dies Pinnochiedna is going straight to hell.
And how old is Edna anyway, being gay became fully legal in 1967, 47 years ago, she claimed to live with her husband while knowing the truth for many years but that can't be true either can it.
Another of her many lies.”
“Analysis centrals review of the many lies, secrets and untruths of Pinnochiedna.
So lets see Edna steals her sisters baby and lies to her son and later grandchildren for almost her son's entire life, only being forced to tell the truth when her sister finally forces her too.
And then living a lie for many years according to her anyway chooses to continue for many years being with a man she knew to be gay and in a relationship with another man. She she shop both men into the police and gets one of them sent ot prison wherupon he commits suicide, then keeps these things secret while proclaiming to be all holier than thou to everyone she meets, she is intolerant of people she thinks as uncrhristian way, what a total hate hypocrite, when she dies Pinnochiedna is going straight to hell.
And how old is Edna anyway, being gay became fully legal in 1967, 47 years ago, she claimed to live with her husband while knowing the truth for many years but that can't be true either can it.
Another of her many lies.”
Edna would not go straight to hell because she has repented. I found it strange that only her husband's lover was prosecuted.
Originally Posted by MissMarvel:
“Debbie involved herself in Charity and Megan's gripe by lying. Megan's own brother hates her because of Charity and now, Debbie. She had every right to try and expose her lie. I would never lie about having a miscarriage to help my mum and if my mum was the type of person who would ask that of me, we wouldn't have a relationship.
Nope, that's not a fact. She didn't push her at all. Charity grabbed Megan's arm and Megan pulled her arm back.
Why does it matter that Charity didn't want kids? She had every right to have an abortion, but she didn't have every right to have an abortion, claim she had a miscarriage, blame her fake miscarriage on Megan and then drag her own daughter into her lie.
So Debbie wants her mum to stay married to a psychopath to avoid her being murdered by a psychopath? For some reason, I believe that's a massive stretch. Charity is tricking Declan. She married him for his money only and pretended to grieve for a baby she actually aborted. If she doesn't want a baby, that's fine. She needs to be honest. I can't believe people are defending what's going on. Putting the fake miscarriage to the side for a minute, she's still destroyed Declan's relationship with his sister. That's love?”
“Debbie involved herself in Charity and Megan's gripe by lying. Megan's own brother hates her because of Charity and now, Debbie. She had every right to try and expose her lie. I would never lie about having a miscarriage to help my mum and if my mum was the type of person who would ask that of me, we wouldn't have a relationship.
Nope, that's not a fact. She didn't push her at all. Charity grabbed Megan's arm and Megan pulled her arm back.
Why does it matter that Charity didn't want kids? She had every right to have an abortion, but she didn't have every right to have an abortion, claim she had a miscarriage, blame her fake miscarriage on Megan and then drag her own daughter into her lie.
So Debbie wants her mum to stay married to a psychopath to avoid her being murdered by a psychopath? For some reason, I believe that's a massive stretch. Charity is tricking Declan. She married him for his money only and pretended to grieve for a baby she actually aborted. If she doesn't want a baby, that's fine. She needs to be honest. I can't believe people are defending what's going on. Putting the fake miscarriage to the side for a minute, she's still destroyed Declan's relationship with his sister. That's love?”
Yes. That's love. It's very complicated isn't it.
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“However bad a mother Charity is, she's the only one Debbie's got or is ever going to have, I don think its difficult to see why she'd cling on to her. Cain again, certainly in the past not the best dad, but still the only one Debbie's got.
I also think a Declan is at fault to an extent in this, if he hadn't been trying to force Charity into having a baby she clearly didn't want, she wouldn't have felt the need to go to the extremes of faking loosing one. He knew her marriage to Jai fell apart because she didn't want another kid, he knew she wanted a baby like a hole in the head, but he still put pressure on her to have one. So he should take some responsibility for this almighty f**k up. ”
“However bad a mother Charity is, she's the only one Debbie's got or is ever going to have, I don think its difficult to see why she'd cling on to her. Cain again, certainly in the past not the best dad, but still the only one Debbie's got.
I also think a Declan is at fault to an extent in this, if he hadn't been trying to force Charity into having a baby she clearly didn't want, she wouldn't have felt the need to go to the extremes of faking loosing one. He knew her marriage to Jai fell apart because she didn't want another kid, he knew she wanted a baby like a hole in the head, but he still put pressure on her to have one. So he should take some responsibility for this almighty f**k up. ”
We must not forget that The Fabulous Charity has seen Godfather Part 2 and doesn't want to be Kay Corleone.
Originally Posted by SULLA:
“Some people are naturally attracted to people with money. It doesn't make them bad people.”
“Some people are naturally attracted to people with money. It doesn't make them bad people.”
No but the things they do to get that money defines their character.
SULLA!!!
Quote:
“We must not forget that The Fabulous Charity has seen Godfather Part 2 and doesn't want to be Kay Corleone.”
“We must not forget that The Fabulous Charity has seen Godfather Part 2 and doesn't want to be Kay Corleone.”
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