This year we've seen woman fall as victims, and men fall as suspects for Lucy's murder. Why is DTC so keen to fit the characters in to specific roles based on their gender?
Apparently...
Apparently...
Spoiler
EastEnders - sexism?
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Except it's not based on their gender is it?
Unless he's put them there because they're women and not because they're great actors/characters in need of good stories then what you're saying is rubbish.
In the context of their stories they aren't targeted because they're women either. Except for the rape story of course, which fits.
Unless he's put them there because they're women and not because they're great actors/characters in need of good stories then what you're saying is rubbish.
In the context of their stories they aren't targeted because they're women either. Except for the rape story of course, which fits.
I thought there was some sexism with the guys all playing poker.
How come they never show a group of all girls getting together, gambling and playing poker. It suggests that only men play card games and that sort of thinking is really old fashioned and out dated.
Same with the old ones, having them all play dominoes together despite their gender.
How come they never show a group of all girls getting together, gambling and playing poker. It suggests that only men play card games and that sort of thinking is really old fashioned and out dated.
Same with the old ones, having them all play dominoes together despite their gender.
Originally Posted by David Mills:
“I thought there was some sexism with the guys all playing poker.
How come they never show a group of all girls getting together, gambling and playing poker. It suggests that only men play card games and that sort of thinking is really old fashioned and out dated.
Same with the old ones, having them all play dominoes together despite their gender.”
“I thought there was some sexism with the guys all playing poker.
How come they never show a group of all girls getting together, gambling and playing poker. It suggests that only men play card games and that sort of thinking is really old fashioned and out dated.
Same with the old ones, having them all play dominoes together despite their gender.”
I agree totally.
I feel like instead of raising awareness for men raping women, their next rape story would swap the genders around. This will put the audience into perspective - women rape too.
Originally Posted by Firegazer:
“I agree totally.
I feel like instead of raising awareness for men raping women, their next rape story would swap the genders around. This will put the audience into perspective - women rape too.”
“I agree totally.
I feel like instead of raising awareness for men raping women, their next rape story would swap the genders around. This will put the audience into perspective - women rape too.”
a rape storyline should ring true dean is becoming fixated with linda. Therefore him raping her is as a result of that. a random rape involving someone we don't know wouldn't work imo.
Originally Posted by MrJames:
“Far too much focus on this I think. We see male characters beaten down and victimised all the time!”
“Far too much focus on this I think. We see male characters beaten down and victimised all the time!”
By women as well: Archie by Stacey; Den by Chrissie; Carl by Ronnie...
Originally Posted by Lilly86:
“By women as well: Archie by Stacey; Den by Chrissie; Carl by Ronnie...”
“By women as well: Archie by Stacey; Den by Chrissie; Carl by Ronnie...”
bad examples as all those men were awful to women as well. max although adulterous wasn't a bad guy abd didn't deserve Tanya trying to kill and Alfie buy and large didn't deserve to be cheated on by kat
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“bad examples as all those men were awful to women as well. max although adulterous wasn't a bad guy abd didn't deserve Tanya trying to kill and Alfie buy and large didn't deserve to be cheated on by kat”
“bad examples as all those men were awful to women as well. max although adulterous wasn't a bad guy abd didn't deserve Tanya trying to kill and Alfie buy and large didn't deserve to be cheated on by kat”
I was going for the idea that it's not always female victims and male perpetrators and even if men are misogynists, they get their comeuppance at the hands of women, therefore refuting the original question being asked in the thread (is EastEnders sexist?).
Originally Posted by Lilly86:
“I was going for the idea that it's not always female victims and male perpetrators and even if men are misogynists, they get their comeuppance at the hands of women, therefore refuting the original question being asked in the thread (is EastEnders sexist?).”
“I was going for the idea that it's not always female victims and male perpetrators and even if men are misogynists, they get their comeuppance at the hands of women, therefore refuting the original question being asked in the thread (is EastEnders sexist?).”
yeah I just got your point there! I'm a bit slow on the uptake lol
Originally Posted by MrJames:
“Far too much focus on this I think. We see male characters beaten down and victimised all the time!”
“Far too much focus on this I think. We see male characters beaten down and victimised all the time!”
I'm talking about DTC.
Originally Posted by MrJames:
“Far too much focus on this I think. We see male characters beaten down and victimised all the time!”
“Far too much focus on this I think. We see male characters beaten down and victimised all the time!”
I don't think we do. Which male characters have we seen victimised this year? Certainly not many, and not in the same way the female characters have been.
In terms of female-centric victimisation stories we've had or are going to have soon this year, just off the top of my head:
Lucy's murder
Carol's cancer
Sharon's attack at the Albert (and whatever is going to happen to her at the wedding - and no, I don't count her plotting against Phil as him being a victim, as he found out before she actually did anything to hurt him financially or otherwise)
The Tosh/Tina DV storyline (although I'm not sure if this has possibly been scrapped)
Linda's rape
Kat's horrific scarring
Denise finding out about Ian's infidelity
Lola being callously dumped by Peter
Dean blatantly using Lauren
Whitney's alluding to Lucy bullying her
I can't really think of any comparable male victimisation storylines apart from Patrick's stroke. Lee had potential with what initially looked like PTSD but that's seemingly been completely dropped now. Alfie's debt storyline is self-inflicted, not caused by anybody but himself. I suppose you could argue that Mick has been victimised by Ian over the kerb-crawling drama, but the main person to suffer from that was Linda. And obviously Ian and Peter have been massively affected by Lucy's murder, but the central point of the plot is still the murder of a young woman.
I think DTC has absolute faith and investment in his female characters but the male characters rarely get the opportunity to play the victim in a scenario, and if they do (like in the case of Ian) they become so unlikeable and do such despicable things that it's hard to feel sorry for them. I don't mind seeing female characters victimised, particularly if they come out stronger on the other side, but I do think we need to see some balance being restored.
Originally Posted by David Mills:
“I thought there was some sexism with the guys all playing poker.
How come they never show a group of all girls getting together, gambling and playing poker. It suggests that only men play card games and that sort of thinking is really old fashioned and out dated.
Same with the old ones, having them all play dominoes together despite their gender.”
“I thought there was some sexism with the guys all playing poker.
How come they never show a group of all girls getting together, gambling and playing poker. It suggests that only men play card games and that sort of thinking is really old fashioned and out dated.
Same with the old ones, having them all play dominoes together despite their gender.”
But it isn't just EE that doesn't show this because in all my years of watching televisión and films, I've yet to recall a scene in which a group of women are sitting around a table, drinking and playing poker (especially for money) in exactly the same way as we all see men doing it.
Is this sexism? Of course not. Imo it's generally considered a thing that blokes do......and women don't.
I'm all for equality, but it doesn't mean to say that women have to do exactly as men do and vice versa. Sometimes it's nice to be a bit different!
Originally Posted by David Mills:
“I thought there was some sexism with the guys all playing poker.
How come they never show a group of all girls getting together, gambling and playing poker. It suggests that only men play card games and that sort of thinking is really old fashioned and out dated.
Same with the old ones, having them all play dominoes together despite their gender.”
“I thought there was some sexism with the guys all playing poker.
How come they never show a group of all girls getting together, gambling and playing poker. It suggests that only men play card games and that sort of thinking is really old fashioned and out dated.
Same with the old ones, having them all play dominoes together despite their gender.”
When they have these poker nights they often have women on a night out or something. Everything is sexist if you make it sexist.
Originally Posted by _elly001:
“I don't think we do. Which male characters have we seen victimised this year? Certainly not many, and not in the same way the female characters have been.
In terms of female-centric victimisation stories we've had or are going to have soon this year, just off the top of my head:
Lucy's murder
Carol's cancer
Sharon's attack at the Albert (and whatever is going to happen to her at the wedding - and no, I don't count her plotting against Phil as him being a victim, as he found out before she actually did anything to hurt him financially or otherwise)
The Tosh/Tina DV storyline (although I'm not sure if this has possibly been scrapped)
Linda's rape
Kat's horrific scarring
Denise finding out about Ian's infidelity
Lola being callously dumped by Peter
Dean blatantly using Lauren
Whitney's alluding to Lucy bullying her
I can't really think of any comparable male victimisation storylines apart from Patrick's stroke. Lee had potential with what initially looked like PTSD but that's seemingly been completely dropped now. Alfie's debt storyline is self-inflicted, not caused by anybody but himself. I suppose you could argue that Mick has been victimised by Ian over the kerb-crawling drama, but the main person to suffer from that was Linda. And obviously Ian and Peter have been massively affected by Lucy's murder, but the central point of the plot is still the murder of a young woman.
I think DTC has absolute faith and investment in his female characters but the male characters rarely get the opportunity to play the victim in a scenario, and if they do (like in the case of Ian) they become so unlikeable and do such despicable things that it's hard to feel sorry for them. I don't mind seeing female characters victimised, particularly if they come out stronger on the other side, but I do think we need to see some balance being restored.”
“I don't think we do. Which male characters have we seen victimised this year? Certainly not many, and not in the same way the female characters have been.
In terms of female-centric victimisation stories we've had or are going to have soon this year, just off the top of my head:
Lucy's murder
Carol's cancer
Sharon's attack at the Albert (and whatever is going to happen to her at the wedding - and no, I don't count her plotting against Phil as him being a victim, as he found out before she actually did anything to hurt him financially or otherwise)
The Tosh/Tina DV storyline (although I'm not sure if this has possibly been scrapped)
Linda's rape
Kat's horrific scarring
Denise finding out about Ian's infidelity
Lola being callously dumped by Peter
Dean blatantly using Lauren
Whitney's alluding to Lucy bullying her
I can't really think of any comparable male victimisation storylines apart from Patrick's stroke. Lee had potential with what initially looked like PTSD but that's seemingly been completely dropped now. Alfie's debt storyline is self-inflicted, not caused by anybody but himself. I suppose you could argue that Mick has been victimised by Ian over the kerb-crawling drama, but the main person to suffer from that was Linda. And obviously Ian and Peter have been massively affected by Lucy's murder, but the central point of the plot is still the murder of a young woman.
I think DTC has absolute faith and investment in his female characters but the male characters rarely get the opportunity to play the victim in a scenario, and if they do (like in the case of Ian) they become so unlikeable and do such despicable things that it's hard to feel sorry for them. I don't mind seeing female characters victimised, particularly if they come out stronger on the other side, but I do think we need to see some balance being restored.”
Soaps in general focus on female characters, not just EE
Shirley got phil drunk to have sex with him years ago. imagine the outrage if the situation was reversed
Originally Posted by _elly001:
“
I think DTC has absolute faith and investment in his female characters but the male characters rarely get the opportunity to play the victim in a scenario, and if they do (like in the case of Ian) they become so unlikeable and do such despicable things that it's hard to feel sorry for them. I don't mind seeing female characters victimised, particularly if they come out stronger on the other side, but I do think we need to see some balance being restored.”
“
I think DTC has absolute faith and investment in his female characters but the male characters rarely get the opportunity to play the victim in a scenario, and if they do (like in the case of Ian) they become so unlikeable and do such despicable things that it's hard to feel sorry for them. I don't mind seeing female characters victimised, particularly if they come out stronger on the other side, but I do think we need to see some balance being restored.”
I say this a few times but i don't get why they've gone the way they have with Deano, who appears to have been abused in prison, they've chosen to make him an abuser rather than explore him as a victim.
I do think Eastenders recently has become a lot about women suffering harm from men or being treated like dirt by them. There aren't really many strong male characters in the show who are also decent people. If they are decent they are quite weak and make really stupid decisions. Mick is perhaps one but even he is so saintly he hurt his wife. I guess you could argue for the male Masoods.....
All the female characters will come out stronger at the end of their respective storylines, it seems set up to be that way, and they should, but it seems tipping slightly towards being anti-men imo.
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Shirley got phil drunk to have sex with him years ago. imagine the outrage if the situation was reversed”
“Shirley got phil drunk to have sex with him years ago. imagine the outrage if the situation was reversed”
Except the scenes didn't play out with such a dark connotation. That's an interpretation the Shirley haters have put on the fact Phil and Shirley a couple of times got drunk and then slept together. He had no problem sleeping with Shirley when they were in a 2 yr relationship.
Originally Posted by mintchocchip:
“I say this a few times but i don't get why they've gone the way they have with Deano, who appears to have been abused in prison, they've chosen to make him an abuser rather than explore him as a victim.
I do think Eastenders recently has become a lot about women suffering harm from men or being treated like dirt by them. There aren't really many strong male characters in the show who are also decent people. If they are decent they are quite weak and make really stupid decisions. Mick is perhaps one but even he is so saintly he hurt his wife. I guess you could argue for the male Masoods.....
All the female characters will come out stronger at the end of their respective storylines, it seems set up to be that way, and they should, but it seems tipping slightly towards being anti-men imo.”
“I say this a few times but i don't get why they've gone the way they have with Deano, who appears to have been abused in prison, they've chosen to make him an abuser rather than explore him as a victim.
I do think Eastenders recently has become a lot about women suffering harm from men or being treated like dirt by them. There aren't really many strong male characters in the show who are also decent people. If they are decent they are quite weak and make really stupid decisions. Mick is perhaps one but even he is so saintly he hurt his wife. I guess you could argue for the male Masoods.....
All the female characters will come out stronger at the end of their respective storylines, it seems set up to be that way, and they should, but it seems tipping slightly towards being anti-men imo.”
I agree about Dean, they had a golden opportunity to really explore the mental issues that would come from being raped repeatedly in prison, and even though they may still explore it, it will always be secondary to Linda's on-screen rape. I do think the rape storyline will be brilliantly handled, but I can't help but feel that we don't need another male on female sex attack in EE at the moment.
And yes, you're right about the lack of strong male characters on the show. I like Mick a lot but he's made some disappointing decisions. Masood is likeable enough but he has a dark side. Patrick is probably the only one that springs to mind that is genuinely a good, moral guy who isn't a complete pushover. The show really needs more David Wicks types, it's such a shame he's left.
Originally Posted by 2p:
“I'm getting tired of you feminists. Grow up.”
“I'm getting tired of you feminists. Grow up.”
I remember your posts against the legalisation of same-sex marriage earlier this year, so it doesn't surprise me that you don't like feminism much either.
About same-sex marriage, life hasn't changed for Joe Public in the six months since its introduction has it?
Originally Posted by _elly001:
“I don't think we do. Which male characters have we seen victimised this year? Certainly not many, and not in the same way the female characters have been.
In terms of female-centric victimisation stories we've had or are going to have soon this year, just off the top of my head:
Lucy's murder
Carol's cancer
Sharon's attack at the Albert (and whatever is going to happen to her at the wedding - and no, I don't count her plotting against Phil as him being a victim, as he found out before she actually did anything to hurt him financially or otherwise)
The Tosh/Tina DV storyline (although I'm not sure if this has possibly been scrapped)
Linda's rape
Kat's horrific scarring
Denise finding out about Ian's infidelity
Lola being callously dumped by Peter
Dean blatantly using Lauren
Whitney's alluding to Lucy bullying her
I can't really think of any comparable male victimisation storylines apart from Patrick's stroke. Lee had potential with what initially looked like PTSD but that's seemingly been completely dropped now. Alfie's debt storyline is self-inflicted, not caused by anybody but himself. I suppose you could argue that Mick has been victimised by Ian over the kerb-crawling drama, but the main person to suffer from that was Linda. And obviously Ian and Peter have been massively affected by Lucy's murder, but the central point of the plot is still the murder of a young woman.
I think DTC has absolute faith and investment in his female characters but the male characters rarely get the opportunity to play the victim in a scenario, and if they do (like in the case of Ian) they become so unlikeable and do such despicable things that it's hard to feel sorry for them. I don't mind seeing female characters victimised, particularly if they come out stronger on the other side, but I do think we need to see some balance being restored.”
“I don't think we do. Which male characters have we seen victimised this year? Certainly not many, and not in the same way the female characters have been.
In terms of female-centric victimisation stories we've had or are going to have soon this year, just off the top of my head:
Lucy's murder
Carol's cancer
Sharon's attack at the Albert (and whatever is going to happen to her at the wedding - and no, I don't count her plotting against Phil as him being a victim, as he found out before she actually did anything to hurt him financially or otherwise)
The Tosh/Tina DV storyline (although I'm not sure if this has possibly been scrapped)
Linda's rape
Kat's horrific scarring
Denise finding out about Ian's infidelity
Lola being callously dumped by Peter
Dean blatantly using Lauren
Whitney's alluding to Lucy bullying her
I can't really think of any comparable male victimisation storylines apart from Patrick's stroke. Lee had potential with what initially looked like PTSD but that's seemingly been completely dropped now. Alfie's debt storyline is self-inflicted, not caused by anybody but himself. I suppose you could argue that Mick has been victimised by Ian over the kerb-crawling drama, but the main person to suffer from that was Linda. And obviously Ian and Peter have been massively affected by Lucy's murder, but the central point of the plot is still the murder of a young woman.
I think DTC has absolute faith and investment in his female characters but the male characters rarely get the opportunity to play the victim in a scenario, and if they do (like in the case of Ian) they become so unlikeable and do such despicable things that it's hard to feel sorry for them. I don't mind seeing female characters victimised, particularly if they come out stronger on the other side, but I do think we need to see some balance being restored.”
Once again you've hit the nail on the head.
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