[jonmorris]

I'm not sure how Apple Pay could work on public transport, as TfL had to work closely with the banks for contact less payments to work in order to get around the issue where a card will hit its own limit (set by the issuer) on how many transactions can be made before a PIN is required (you can't obviously enter a PIN on a gateline or bus).

That's now addressed, and TfL also retain certain data required to allow Revenue Protection Inspectors to check your contact less card, as well as letting you view your journey history in the same way as you can on Oyster.

EE solved the issue, so perhaps Apple can/will, but personally I don't see myself wanting to use a phone (any phone, any OS) to make payments. Nokia was doing this back in 2009 with Barclaycard and the only thing that really succeeded was the contact less payment card (e.g. Barclaycard One Pulse, which I had from launch until it was phased out recently). It's still easier to tap my chosen card against a reader than get a phone out, as well as the security implications of touching out at some stations (e.g. Camden Town) with a shiny new iPhone 6 plus!

[alanwarwic]

From the #100 link
" a number of clerks and cashiers who seemed to have not been trained in using the mobile payment system at all. She cites her Apple Pay experience at Walgreens, Rite Aid and Chevron, where all three clerks she interacted with had no idea what Apple Pay was."

Hilarious. With the media pushing a new standard word for 'contactless'/'NFC' staff will obviously have to be told that 'Applepay' means contactless.

Applepay is NFC and uses the same clearing system as US Google Wallet, Visa Paywave etc etc.

[alanwarwic]

http://wsj.com/articles/will-stores-...pay-1410392952

"Best Buy Co., for example, installed NFC-enabled scanners in many of its stores but switched them off in 2011 because the cost of supporting the platform was too high, the company spokesman said. The retailer has no plans to change course following Apple's announcement."
"Moreover, merchant fees for mobile-payment systems can be higher than for plastic cards, particularly for debit cards, Mr. Crone said."

So, an extremely old story with a new spin ?

It is the complete opposite here in the UK where NfC has really taken off, even though both Google Wallet NFC and ApplePay NFC are US only I think.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

For a company that produces stuff that people claim "just works" there has been a lot of problems recently .....

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/18...s-and-bugs.htm

Apple pay seems to "work" and then "work again"

For a new system, I would be surprised if there weren't problems. Strangely, the one you highlighted was a fault of Bank of America, so not the best example

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

From the #100 link
" a number of clerks and cashiers who seemed to have not been trained in using the mobile payment system at all. She cites her Apple Pay experience at Walgreens, Rite Aid and Chevron, where all three clerks she interacted with had no idea what Apple Pay was."

Hilarious. With the media pushing a new standard word for 'contactless'/'NFC' staff will obviously have to be told that 'Applepay' means contactless.

Applepay is NFC and uses the same clearing system as US Google Wallet, Visa Paywave etc etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

http://wsj.com/articles/will-stores-...pay-1410392952

"Best Buy Co., for example, installed NFC-enabled scanners in many of its stores but switched them off in 2011 because the cost of supporting the platform was too high, the company spokesman said. The retailer has no plans to change course following Apple's announcement."
"Moreover, merchant fees for mobile-payment systems can be higher than for plastic cards, particularly for debit cards, Mr. Crone said."

So, an extremely old story with a new spin ?

It is the complete opposite here in the UK where NfC has really taken off, even though both Google Wallet NFC and ApplePay NFC are US only I think.

Are you still finding it confusing, or have you worked it out yet?

However I'm not sure, contact less payment is the same as ApplePay? Contact less has limitations on payment limit, I believe the secure ApplePay system does not.

[Stuart_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

For a new system, I would be surprised if there weren't problems. Strangely, the one you highlighted was a fault of Bank of America, so not the best example

So the fault wasn't specific to the apple pay process ? It was also happening on credit/debit cards and Google wallet ? I hadn't realised that so thanks for pointing out my error kidspud .....

Oh.... Hang on ....

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

So the fault wasn't specific to the apple pay process ? It was also happening on credit/debit cards and Google wallet ? I hadn't realised that so thanks for pointing out my error kidspud .....

Oh.... Hang on ....

No, it was caused by the use of ApplePay, and was a fault only with the Bank of America processing, are you having trouble reading to article?

Not sure why you reference Google wallet, they are massively different systems.

[alanwarwic]

via someone who has to stay Anon( of course.)
"The error was attributed to a processing mistake that occurred between the bank and at least one payments network, according to a person familiar with the matter who asked not to be identified because details of the malfunction aren’t public."

elsewhere
http://www.toptechnews.com/article/i...d=123003UIN75F
"Although the problem did turn out to be a technical issue on Apple’s end, only Bank of America could refund the money, since Apple does not keep account information on Apple Pay users."

But what did it matter to some that this was not to be so ?

[Stuart_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

No, it was caused by the use of ApplePay, and was a fault only with the Bank of America processing, are you having trouble reading to article?

Not sure why you reference Google wallet, they are massively different systems.

No problem with the article. Just very surprised apple doesn't insist on end-to-end testing or formal accreditation.

..... And the fact that you feel it is not a fault with apple pay as its isn't an error by apple ???

I would expect my payment provider to be responsible for the whole chain of handling my payments personally.....

Simple terms.... Did the payment made via apple pay work correctly or not work correctly ? Or are you having trouble reading the article ?

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

No problem with the article. Just very surprised apple doesn't insist on end-to-end testing or formal accreditation.

..... And the fact that you feel it is not a fault with apple pay as its isn't an error by apple ???

I would expect my payment provider to be responsible for the whole chain of handling my payments personally.....

Simple terms.... Did the payment made via apple pay work correctly or not work correctly ? Or are you having trouble reading the article ?

They work correctly.

Are you claiming that every single payment transaction via debit/credit card works correctly?

Is this just another sorry attempt to try and taint Apple? I would love to know where this bitterness comes from (not really).

Anyway, I look forward to Android now pulling their figures out of their arses and offering a proper payment system, after all they've had nfc for God knows how long and still haven't managed to do it. Mind you, they have all the security issues to get over first.

[swordman]

Some posters have been working overtime lately will all these iproblems.

Deflection always a good defence

[Stuart_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

They work correctly.

Are you claiming that every single payment transaction via debit/credit card works correctly?

Is this just another sorry attempt to try and taint Apple? I would love to know where this bitterness comes from (not really).

Anyway, I look forward to Android now pulling their figures out of their arses and offering a proper payment system, after all they've had nfc for God knows how long and still haven't managed to do it. Mind you, they have all the security issues to get over first.

So those payments that came out twice were correct ? I'm sure that will reassure users

Why bring it back to an android thing ??? You claim to be impassionate yet when asked if an apple product worked or not you embark on an anti-android rant ???

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

So those payments that came out twice were correct ? I'm sure that will reassure users

Why bring it back to an android thing ??? You claim to be impassionate yet when asked if an apple product worked or not you embark on an anti-android rant ???

There was a banking error that has been corrected. The ApplePay system appears to be working fine.

The 'android thing' has been a subject on here for over two year.

So do you not think Apple should be applauded for bringing a secure, non intrusive payment system to smartphones?

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordman

Some posters have been working overtime lately will all these iproblems.

Deflection always a good defence

Coming from the master of twist, I'll take that as a compliment.

[Stuart_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

There was a banking error that has been corrected. The ApplePay system appears to be working fine.

The 'android thing' has been a subject on here for over two year.

So do you not think Apple should be applauded for bringing a secure, non intrusive payment system to smartphones?

These already exist.

And as for "secure" only time will tell. Icloud was meant to be secure too if I recall .....

You seem obsessed with praising apple.

I dislike apple. I don't "love" google though. I'm happy to pont out flaws and, to be fair, if ever they screwed up android I'd be tempted to jump over to windows (its looking better and better IMHO).

I certainly wouldn't defend google if/when they make mistakes. I just find it very strange that someone can't see ANY flaws in a company and their products ......

[alanwarwic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

I'm not sure how Apple Pay could work on public transport, as TfL...

ApplePay joined the Network, so it is just another NFC 'contactless payment' payment card, obviously needing to be turned on country by country.
No one actually turned off ApplePay in the US, they turned off 'contactless payments', as mentioned, the off switch dating as far back as 2011.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

These already exist.

And as for "secure" only time will tell. Icloud was meant to be secure too if I recall .....

You seem obsessed with praising apple.

I dislike apple. I don't "love" google though. I'm happy to pont out flaws and, to be fair, if ever they screwed up android I'd be tempted to jump over to windows (its looking better and better IMHO).

I certainly wouldn't defend google if/when they make mistakes. I just find it very strange that someone can't see ANY flaws in a company and their products ......

Funny how things are viewed, as you seem obsessed with criticising Apple.

[Stuart_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Funny how things are viewed, as you seem obsessed with criticising Apple.

I'm very clear. I don't like apple as a company. I think they have made some pretty items in the past but are now resting on their laurels. I don't like the company and I don't like those who are unable to see the flaws in some of their products and ways. All companies have problems. All products have flaws. Those who simply dismiss them from apple are just deluding themselves.

How many people have you heard (or read) saying that they buy "Apple stuff" because "it just works". Threads like this expose the fact that actually they don't. Just like any other company and product they have flaws.

I will quite happily criticise Samsung, lg, google, asus, dell, Microsoft, coca cola, Kelloggs, etc etc when they get things wrong.

There is no company out there that I would blindly defend from any criticism ...... They all screw up sometimes.....

I just don't think I've ever seen you respond to a criticism of apple with a "yep, that's a cock up" type response which just seems odd to me.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

I'm very clear. I don't like apple as a company. I think they have made some pretty items in the past but are now resting on their laurels. I don't like the company and I don't like those who are unable to see the flaws in some of their products and ways. All companies have problems. All products have flaws. Those who simply dismiss them from apple are just deluding themselves.

How many people have you heard (or read) saying that they buy "Apple stuff" because "it just works". Threads like this expose the fact that actually they don't. Just like any other company and product they have flaws.

I will quite happily criticise Samsung, lg, google, asus, dell, Microsoft, coca cola, Kelloggs, etc etc when they get things wrong.

There is no company out there that I would blindly defend from any criticism ...... They all screw up sometimes.....

I just don't think I've ever seen you respond to a criticism of apple with a "yep, that's a cock up" type response which just seems odd to me.

Unfortunately, your dislike blinds your views.

I'm quite happy for you to go through my posting history. You will see that I do not defend everything Apple does, however I will respond to some of the very silly comments posted on here by the irrational anti-Apple group of which you are one.

I very rarely criticise android (again feel free to check my history) but I will use them as a comparison to all the Apple nonsense posted. I do criticise Samsung as having brought two of their phones, I have the right to with the issues I have encountered.

This thread is a classic example. The smartphone world has been crying out for a proper payment solution, and lots of people were very excited by the possibilities that nfc could bring. It must be very disappointing to many that Apple got there first with a secure, non intrusive solution.

You seem to want to highlight to Bank of America problem rather than recognise this will move all smartphones (not just Apple) on in functionality.

[Stuart_h]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Unfortunately, your dislike blinds your views.

I'm quite happy for you to go through my posting history. You will see that I do not defend everything Apple does, however I will respond to some of the very silly comments posted on here by the irrational anti-Apple group of which you are one.

I very rarely criticise android (again feel free to check my history) but I will use them as a comparison to all the Apple nonsense posted. I do criticise Samsung as having brought two of their phones, I have the right to with the issues I have encountered.

This thread is a classic example. The smartphone world has been crying out for a proper payment solution, and lots of people were very excited by the possibilities that nfc could bring. It must be very disappointing to many that Apple got there first with a secure, non intrusive solution.

You seem to want to highlight to Bank of America problem rather than recognise this will move all smartphones (not just Apple) on in functionality.

Or you could state that the The existing (working) paymemt options have encouraged all smart phones (including apple) to embrace NFC payments. Are you suggesting that apple pay will be widely available for use on non-apple handsets ? Again, I had thought it was a closed ecosystem so only available to the 20%ish using iOS ??

And of those only if you happen to live in a few select countries.....

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

They work correctly.

Are you claiming that every single payment transaction via debit/credit card works correctly?

Is this just another sorry attempt to try and taint Apple? I would love to know where this bitterness comes from (not really).

Anyway, I look forward to Android now pulling their figures out of their arses and offering a proper payment system, after all they've had nfc for God knows how long and still haven't managed to do it. Mind you, they have all the security issues to get over first.

What security issues are these?

Are they any worse than the crackers apple have had and microsoft have had?

It's funny. You sit in front of that keyboard blasting anyone who doesn't quite agree on what apple is doing, then you start on android..

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Unfortunately, your dislike blinds your views.

I'm quite happy for you to go through my posting history. You will see that I do not defend everything Apple does, however I will respond to some of the very silly comments posted on here by the irrational anti-Apple group of which you are one.

I very rarely criticise android (again feel free to check my history) but I will use them as a comparison to all the Apple nonsense posted. I do criticise Samsung as having brought two of their phones, I have the right to with the issues I have encountered.

This thread is a classic example. The smartphone world has been crying out for a proper payment solution, and lots of people were very excited by the possibilities that nfc could bring. It must be very disappointing to many that Apple got there first with a secure, non intrusive solution.

You seem to want to highlight to Bank of America problem rather than recognise this will move all smartphones (not just Apple) on in functionality.

Apple didn't get there first!!

Mobile payment is huge in china and Korea and has been for years. It hasn't kicked off here yet because of our banking system and shops reluctance to change over to NFC terminals. Although that's slowly changing.

That's not Googles or any phone manufacturers problem.

Apple won't change that here.

[IslandNiles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Apple didn't get there first!!

Mobile payment is huge in china and Korea and has been for years. It hasn't kicked off here yet because of our banking system and shops reluctance to change over to NFC terminals. Although that's slowly changing.

That's not Googles or any phone manufacturers problem.

Apple won't change that here.

Hang on a sec, though. Before iPhones had NFC, you regularly said that pretty much everywhere had NFC terminals now, even your local corner shop, and that Apple were missing the boat.

NFC terminals are becoming much more commonplace. They're in Boots, M&S, most of the coffee and fast food chains, etc. It really needs the supermarkets to change their terminals over for a big change to happen. Most banks are issuing NFC cards and actively encouraging customers to use contactless.

Payment by mobile hasn't taken off here, because there's really no system of doing it yet. (Apart from EE's SIM/wallet system.) That's still the case, because of course Apple Pay hasn't launched here yet.

Will Apple manage to change things? That remains to be seen. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, after three or four months, there had been more Apple Pay transactions than the entire transaction history of Google Wallet. That doesn't really matter - it's inconsequential which system is used more. But, Google Wallet definitely hasn't really penetrated the market in a way that's going to make retailers or banks or anyone else want to jump on board with mobile payments. As I say, whether Apple can do that remains to be seen.

[jonmorris]

Has everyone really being crying out for making payments with their phone?

I was an early adopter of Oyster and contact less payment cards, and also have am ITSO compliant card for rail travel (even though I am very limited in where I can use it until next year) but have no real desire to use my phone as a debit or credit card.

[slattery69]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmorris

Has everyone really being crying out for making payments with their phone?

I was an early adopter of Oyster and contact less payment cards, and also have am ITSO compliant card for rail travel (even though I am very limited in where I can use it until next year) but have no real desire to use my phone as a debit or credit card.

I like the theory of paying using my phone esp if i can put loyalty cards etc on it. I rarely carry cash so all my wallet has in is the odd loyalty card and my debt card.
My only really fear is someone doing a grab on my phone. If someone grabs my bank card im not really fussed beyond it been a hassle .
they will cover any loses and replace the card. The phone on the other hand is very much a pain and a claim on the insurance (if they pay out )