iPhone 6 / 6 Plus NFC will only work on Apple Pay

alanwarwic · 11-03-2015, 21:38

Quote:

Sure - but I don't think things take off simply because its Apple...

They are now more like Ford. Basic, but a safe buy.

Apple mainly copies. (and Bagov cant be in the UK)

alanwarwic · 23-03-2015, 12:29

An interesting claim that prior to Apple Pay fraud ran at 0.1% increasing 60 fold to 6% for Apple Pay.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/bu...apple-pay.html

Yet "Apple has now begun providing additional information to the banks that should help deter some of the fraud." likely means banks now have a better method of verification.

calico_pie · 23-03-2015, 15:30

Well, its certainly interesting that you seem to want to create the impression that the fault lies predominantly with Apple, given that:

"It is not clear, however, that Apple is the naked emperor. More likely it is at least as much the banks’ fault, if not more.

Apple Pay itself should, in theory, cut down on fraud because it makes stealing credit card information almost impossible"

jonmorris · 23-03-2015, 15:36

It can't be Apple's fault. The banks were probably just using it wrong.

calico_pie · 23-03-2015, 16:20

Ah, sarcasm.

But sarcasm aside, did you have anything constructive to add?

Stig · 23-03-2015, 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

An interesting claim that prior to Apple Pay fraud ran at 0.1% increasing 60 fold to 6% for Apple Pay.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/bu...apple-pay.html

Yet "Apple has now begun providing additional information to the banks that should help deter some of the fraud." likely means banks now have a better method of verification.

A quote from that NYT article "It is not clear, however, that Apple is the naked emperor. More likely it is at least as much the banks’ fault, if not more."

DevonBloke · 23-03-2015, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Oh yeah. What happened to all those stories about muggers cutting off the fingers of 5S owners?

Maybe they were just a completely OTT hysteria.

I can't tell from your post if you are joking or serious.
I'm not being funny either, I just can't tell.

calico_pie · 23-03-2015, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevonBloke

I can't tell from your post if you are joking or serious.
I'm not being funny either, I just can't tell.

When people tried to argue, with a straight face, and with no sense of irony, that muggers would cut people's fingers off because of touch ID, I seriously did think they were guilty of being OTT and hysterical. (in both senses of the word)

enapace · 23-03-2015, 18:04

You do have to bare in mind that american banks are no where near as secure as Europeans in these sort of matters.

DevonBloke · 23-03-2015, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

When people tried to argue, with a straight face, and with no sense of irony, that muggers would cut people's fingers off because of touch ID, I seriously did think they were guilty of being OTT and hysterical. (in both senses of the word)

Ah right. Got it. We're both on the same page!
I was getting ready then to call you a mad man! haha
Bloody text, sometimes you just don't know where people are coming from.
Good job world leaders don't use forums, we'd be on world war 4 already!!

jchamier · 23-03-2015, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by enapace

You do have to bare in mind that american banks are no where near as secure as Europeans in these sort of matters.

I would hope the UK banks wouldn't allow you to add a card to Apple Pay without validating using something like the PIN code generator machines some have been issuing.

moox · 23-03-2015, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamier

I would hope the UK banks wouldn't allow you to add a card to Apple Pay without validating using something like the PIN code generator machines some have been issuing.

What about a PayPal style approach where they'd prefer to be able to do direct debit from your bank account?

jchamier · 23-03-2015, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

What about a PayPal style approach where they'd prefer to be able to do direct debit from your bank account?

Apple Pay isn't PayPal, it doesn't run an "account", its just a new way of using your debit or credit card in a shop (or online) that is more secure because the card number is not sent.

I think Google Wallet tried the account method. It didn't take off as apparently Google wanted the shops to tell Google what you'd bought for advertising data reasons.

Samsung Pay will be interesting to watch, probably be like Google Wallet.

Everything Goes · 23-03-2015, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevonBloke

Ah right. Got it. We're both on the same page!
I was getting ready then to call you a mad man! haha
Bloody text, sometimes you just don't know where people are coming from.
Good job world leaders don't use forums, we'd be on world war 4 already!!

Your right

calico_pie · 23-03-2015, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Your right

You've lost me.

Why am I mad for thinking stories about muggers cutting people's fingers off because of touch ID were OTT hysteria?

Or were you just being rude generally? In which case you should ask charm school for a refund.

Everything Goes · 23-03-2015, 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

You've lost me.

Why am I mad for thinking stories about muggers cutting people's fingers off because of touch ID were OTT hysteria?

Or were you just being rude generally? In which case you should ask charm school for a refund.

Educated the expensive way he knows his claret from his beaujolais

calico_pie · 23-03-2015, 22:58

If you have something to say, maybe you should just say it instead of the incessant winking.

Roush · 23-03-2015, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

An interesting claim that prior to Apple Pay fraud ran at 0.1% increasing 60 fold to 6% for Apple Pay.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/bu...apple-pay.html

Yet "Apple has now begun providing additional information to the banks that should help deter some of the fraud." likely means banks now have a better method of verification.

Here are some more chosen-for-a-purpose quotes from your linked article:

"...the banks may largely have themselves to blame."

"...Apple Pay has exposed what many of the banks privately acknowledge they have been trying to fix for months."

"The banks, desperate to become their customers’ default card on Apple Pay — most add only one to their iPhones — did little to build their own defenses..."

"It also appears that banks set up a flawed process to deal with the credit cards that it did flag."

Everything Goes · 23-03-2015, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

If you have something to say, maybe you should just say it instead of the incessant winking.

Sorry I've got something in my eye

calico_pie · 23-03-2015, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everything Goes

Sorry I've got something in my eye

Maybe you should get it looked at and come back when its better.

kidspud · 23-03-2015, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roush

Here are some more chosen-for-a-purpose quotes from your linked article:

"...the banks may largely have themselves to blame."

"...Apple Pay has exposed what many of the banks privately acknowledge they have been trying to fix for months."

"The banks, desperate to become their customers’ default card on Apple Pay — most add only one to their iPhones — did little to build their own defenses..."

"It also appears that banks set up a flawed process to deal with the credit cards that it did flag."

In the last few weeks AW's obsession with Apple has resulted on more than one occasion the selective quoting of articles. I assume he hopes that others just don't bother to read his links.

alanwarwic · 04-04-2015, 14:22

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/04...ith-retailers/

The only problem I have had with NFC is where the contactless terminal has NFC turned off and staff do not even know if it actually works. Of course when that has happened I simply inserted the card to pay by normal debit.

It is not the case here so 50/50 it is likely you need to carry cash or a card too.
The other interesting aspect over there is that you can link Apple Pay to a credit card, it being the common option, thus making retailers more reluctant to accept it.

reclusive46 · 04-04-2015, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/04...ith-retailers/

The only problem I have had with NFC is where the contactless terminal has NFC turned off and staff do not even know if it actually works. Of course when that has happened I simply inserted the card to pay by normal debit.

It is not the case here so 50/50 it is likely you need to carry cash or a card too.
The other interesting aspect over there is that you can link Apple Pay to a credit card, it being the common option, thus making retailers more reluctant to accept it.

MasterCard has a deadline when all terminals must be contactless enabled (as in have it turned on)

alanwarwic · 04-04-2015, 17:23

Why bother to mention it if it is 2020 ?

kidspud · 04-04-2015, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwarwic

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/04...ith-retailers/

The only problem I have had with NFC is where the contactless terminal has NFC turned off and staff do not even know if it actually works. Of course when that has happened I simply inserted the card to pay by normal debit.

It is not the case here so 50/50 it is likely you need to carry cash or a card too.
The other interesting aspect over there is that you can link Apple Pay to a credit card, it being the common option, thus making retailers more reluctant to accept it.

Not sure I understand that statement. The issues raised in that survey of 500 seem to be more about the lack of service training or technical glitches. Both of which I am sure will be sorted out over time.

However, the survey did show that take up was rather high, so there is clearly a demand.

11-03-2015, 21:38	#201
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie Sure - but I don't think things take off simply because its Apple... They are now more like Ford. Basic, but a safe buy. Apple mainly copies. (and Bagov cant be in the UK)

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23-03-2015, 12:29	#202
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	An interesting claim that prior to Apple Pay fraud ran at 0.1% increasing 60 fold to 6% for Apple Pay. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/bu...apple-pay.html Yet "Apple has now begun providing additional information to the banks that should help deter some of the fraud." likely means banks now have a better method of verification.

23-03-2015, 15:30	#203
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Well, its certainly interesting that you seem to want to create the impression that the fault lies predominantly with Apple, given that: "It is not clear, however, that Apple is the naked emperor. More likely it is at least as much the banks’ fault, if not more. Apple Pay itself should, in theory, cut down on fraud because it makes stealing credit card information almost impossible"

23-03-2015, 15:36	#204
jonmorris Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: a land filled with trolls Posts: 12,018	It can't be Apple's fault. The banks were probably just using it wrong.

23-03-2015, 16:20	#205
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Ah, sarcasm. But sarcasm aside, did you have anything constructive to add?

23-03-2015, 16:51	#206
Stig Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sandy Heath, Beds. UK Posts: 10,383	Quote: Originally Posted by alanwarwic An interesting claim that prior to Apple Pay fraud ran at 0.1% increasing 60 fold to 6% for Apple Pay. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/bu...apple-pay.html Yet "Apple has now begun providing additional information to the banks that should help deter some of the fraud." likely means banks now have a better method of verification. A quote from that NYT article "It is not clear, however, that Apple is the naked emperor. More likely it is at least as much the banks’ fault, if not more."

23-03-2015, 17:16	#207
DevonBloke Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Totnes, Devon Posts: 6,694	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie Oh yeah. What happened to all those stories about muggers cutting off the fingers of 5S owners? Maybe they were just a completely OTT hysteria. I can't tell from your post if you are joking or serious. I'm not being funny either, I just can't tell.

23-03-2015, 17:24	#208
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by DevonBloke I can't tell from your post if you are joking or serious. I'm not being funny either, I just can't tell. When people tried to argue, with a straight face, and with no sense of irony, that muggers would cut people's fingers off because of touch ID, I seriously did think they were guilty of being OTT and hysterical. (in both senses of the word)

23-03-2015, 18:04	#209
enapace Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4,249	You do have to bare in mind that american banks are no where near as secure as Europeans in these sort of matters.

23-03-2015, 18:51	#210
DevonBloke Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Totnes, Devon Posts: 6,694	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie When people tried to argue, with a straight face, and with no sense of irony, that muggers would cut people's fingers off because of touch ID, I seriously did think they were guilty of being OTT and hysterical. (in both senses of the word) Ah right. Got it. We're both on the same page! I was getting ready then to call you a mad man! haha Bloody text, sometimes you just don't know where people are coming from. Good job world leaders don't use forums, we'd be on world war 4 already!!

23-03-2015, 19:05	#211
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by enapace You do have to bare in mind that american banks are no where near as secure as Europeans in these sort of matters. I would hope the UK banks wouldn't allow you to add a card to Apple Pay without validating using something like the PIN code generator machines some have been issuing.

23-03-2015, 19:06	#212
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by jchamier I would hope the UK banks wouldn't allow you to add a card to Apple Pay without validating using something like the PIN code generator machines some have been issuing. What about a PayPal style approach where they'd prefer to be able to do direct debit from your bank account?

23-03-2015, 19:09	#213
jchamier Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: This forum Posts: 3,392	Quote: Originally Posted by moox What about a PayPal style approach where they'd prefer to be able to do direct debit from your bank account? Apple Pay isn't PayPal, it doesn't run an "account", its just a new way of using your debit or credit card in a shop (or online) that is more secure because the card number is not sent. I think Google Wallet tried the account method. It didn't take off as apparently Google wanted the shops to tell Google what you'd bought for advertising data reasons. Samsung Pay will be interesting to watch, probably be like Google Wallet.

23-03-2015, 19:32	#214
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by DevonBloke Ah right. Got it. We're both on the same page! I was getting ready then to call you a mad man! haha Bloody text, sometimes you just don't know where people are coming from. Good job world leaders don't use forums, we'd be on world war 4 already!! Your right

23-03-2015, 22:31	#215
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Your right You've lost me. Why am I mad for thinking stories about muggers cutting people's fingers off because of touch ID were OTT hysteria? Or were you just being rude generally? In which case you should ask charm school for a refund.

23-03-2015, 22:41	#216
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie You've lost me. Why am I mad for thinking stories about muggers cutting people's fingers off because of touch ID were OTT hysteria? Or were you just being rude generally? In which case you should ask charm school for a refund. Educated the expensive way he knows his claret from his beaujolais

23-03-2015, 22:58	#217
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	If you have something to say, maybe you should just say it instead of the incessant winking.

23-03-2015, 23:01	#218
Roush Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 2,938	Quote: Originally Posted by alanwarwic An interesting claim that prior to Apple Pay fraud ran at 0.1% increasing 60 fold to 6% for Apple Pay. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/bu...apple-pay.html Yet "Apple has now begun providing additional information to the banks that should help deter some of the fraud." likely means banks now have a better method of verification. Here are some more chosen-for-a-purpose quotes from your linked article: "...the banks may largely have themselves to blame." "...Apple Pay has exposed what many of the banks privately acknowledge they have been trying to fix for months." "The banks, desperate to become their customers’ default card on Apple Pay — most add only one to their iPhones — did little to build their own defenses..." "It also appears that banks set up a flawed process to deal with the credit cards that it did flag."

23-03-2015, 23:20	#219
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie If you have something to say, maybe you should just say it instead of the incessant winking. Sorry I've got something in my eye

23-03-2015, 23:36	#220
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by Everything Goes Sorry I've got something in my eye Maybe you should get it looked at and come back when its better.

23-03-2015, 23:59	#221
kidspud Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 11,501	Quote: Originally Posted by Roush Here are some more chosen-for-a-purpose quotes from your linked article: "...the banks may largely have themselves to blame." "...Apple Pay has exposed what many of the banks privately acknowledge they have been trying to fix for months." "The banks, desperate to become their customers’ default card on Apple Pay — most add only one to their iPhones — did little to build their own defenses..." "It also appears that banks set up a flawed process to deal with the credit cards that it did flag." In the last few weeks AW's obsession with Apple has resulted on more than one occasion the selective quoting of articles. I assume he hopes that others just don't bother to read his links.

DS Forums

iPhone 6 / 6 Plus NFC will only work on Apple Pay

04-04-2015, 14:22	#222
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/04...ith-retailers/ The only problem I have had with NFC is where the contactless terminal has NFC turned off and staff do not even know if it actually works. Of course when that has happened I simply inserted the card to pay by normal debit. It is not the case here so 50/50 it is likely you need to carry cash or a card too. The other interesting aspect over there is that you can link Apple Pay to a credit card, it being the common option, thus making retailers more reluctant to accept it.

04-04-2015, 16:42	#223
reclusive46 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Norwich Posts: 570	Quote: Originally Posted by alanwarwic http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/04...ith-retailers/ The only problem I have had with NFC is where the contactless terminal has NFC turned off and staff do not even know if it actually works. Of course when that has happened I simply inserted the card to pay by normal debit. It is not the case here so 50/50 it is likely you need to carry cash or a card too. The other interesting aspect over there is that you can link Apple Pay to a credit card, it being the common option, thus making retailers more reluctant to accept it. MasterCard has a deadline when all terminals must be contactless enabled (as in have it turned on)

04-04-2015, 17:23	#224
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Why bother to mention it if it is 2020 ?

04-04-2015, 17:46	#225
kidspud Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 11,501	Quote: Originally Posted by alanwarwic http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/04...ith-retailers/ The only problem I have had with NFC is where the contactless terminal has NFC turned off and staff do not even know if it actually works. Of course when that has happened I simply inserted the card to pay by normal debit. It is not the case here so 50/50 it is likely you need to carry cash or a card too. The other interesting aspect over there is that you can link Apple Pay to a credit card, it being the common option, thus making retailers more reluctant to accept it. Not sure I understand that statement. The issues raised in that survey of 500 seem to be more about the lack of service training or technical glitches. Both of which I am sure will be sorted out over time. However, the survey did show that take up was rather high, so there is clearly a demand.