I feel compelled to write some of my thoughts on the season to date.

While I have enjoyed most of the episodes, more or less, and I've appreciated the handing of the Danny Pink sup-plot to date, I feel like it has been a little stagnant. It's still a lot closer to the previous season than I would like. It's been great having a new Doctor and I'm enjoying Capaldi's performances a lot, but the formula, which Moffatt has intimated he feels is due a shake up, really is still very rigid. If you'd put Matt Smith in these episodes they really would fit absolutely seamlessly into the previous season. Time Heist even employed two plot twists used last season: the Doctor subduing a 'monster' by allowing it to 'feed' on his memories (ala Rings of Akhaten) and the twist of the 'monster' looking for its mate (ala Hide).

Listen was a bold episode, but the others really have felt like very familiar ground. I'm not saying they're bad, but they're variations on what we've seen before, which is why I feel Season 7 got criticism. It's masked slightly this year by the new Doctor but nonetheless I feel it's the same.

Deep Breath left me full of hope and excitement. I loved its slower pace and emphasis on character scenes and dialogue. Of course, that was facilitated by the running time. It made me believe that the talk of such things in the pre-series hype may come to pass. Unfortunately, since then it really hasn't, except for Listen. This has led me to thinking that maybe most writers simply cannot meet the demands of Doctor Who in 45 minutes. I see writers whose episodes I enjoy on Sherlock, for example, with its 90 minute episodes, floundering somewhat on Doctor Who, with shallow characters and both plot and emotional exposition, and an almost fanatical obsession with a frantic pace. Steven Moffatt is a script-writing genius (meh to you if you disagree :P) and he seems to be able to do it, so to speak, in 45 minutes, with a packed plot, great dialogue, themes, humour, the works. Most of the other writers seem to be giving lip service to many of the elements they feel obliged to include.

I'm hopeful that the second half of the season, with its coterie of new writers, will push the envelope a little more and help the show evolve towards its next phase.


Here's what I personally think should inform that next phase:

Let the stories all have their own pace. Stop trying to force this mad rush of events.

Jettison any scripts that reuse tropes from recent seasons. Examine the scripts really brutally for this.

Let the characters speak. I'm tired of everyone in the universe being pithy.

Stop trying to throw in everything all the time. Choose one thing for the episode to be and let it be that, with light amounts of the other formula elements.

Seriously consider giving the show an hours running time to facilitate the above. I know 45 minutes is commercially driven but it will help the writers immensely. I feel the show is successfull enough to be a little demanding of its broadcasters.

For me, Deep Breath and Listen are a very clear template to follow for a more nuanced, naturally paced show, that doesn't neglect dialogue and character progression.


Addendum:

Can I ask you guys something? I know being the thread starter doesn't mean I 'own' the topic and I can't control what people post but I can I ask people to only make posts that further the discussion in the direction I have set out (thoughts on the season so far and how you feel the show may or should progress from here) and leave off any repetitive complaints or 'hate' that has already been strongly represented elsewhere. I'm really interested to hear thoughtful, not angry, discussion of this topic. Please be constructive. Thank you

The biggest problem for me, in what I consider the strongest and most entertainingly re-watchable run of five episodes, is.... well it's hard to explain, clearly. It's the unnecessary nods to the culture that have been built up around Capaldi and the show, recently.

12 could prove his maturity so much more if he didn't have to remind us by knocking his predecessors. Capaldi can do more with a stare than a gag about his eyebrows - a fleeting, exciting glimpse in the 50th has already been reduced to a joke.

I'll take "what you need is me" over "basically, it's the eyebrows"

I don't want Internet memes transformed in to recurring gags in the show. It's not subtle, either. Even Gatiss has had Clara, in his last two episodes, mock The Doctor's constant use of the Sonic. I would much rather they just used the Sonic less instead of highlighting it and making that a joke, too. 12's costume was compared to a magician's when it was revealed, so of course we need to mention that, too.

It started to happen to Sherlock, too - so it's little surprise that my complaints come from Moffat, Gatiss & Thompson episodes. 11 started free of it all, with Smith unburdened. Smith says his best work was in Series 5 and I strongly agree. I can watch episodes from that series and not believe that it's the same man three years later. With my considering 12 to be so great, at the moment, I don't want to think the same of him when he's gone.

Enough jokes about the obvious - just get on with it and let Capaldi do the same. All of that said, Series 8 is averaging 8.3 on my scoresheet and doing quite nicely But I would not be adverse to a further shake-up behind the scenes.

Just one point about the similarity with previous episodes, my assumption has been that this was a deliberate part of the story arc (as yet unexplained). In deep breath the doctor made a couple of comments about remembering the events from before and then we we specifically shown the Ss pompadour sign at the end of the episode.

As you say, some of the other scenarios are so similar (eg into the Daley and the elements in last nights episode that you mention) that I think it must be deliberate for a reason rather than sloppy or completely out of new ideas,

Might be wrong, would be gutted if it is just complete lack of new ideas.

I think the two biggest problems with the Moffat era as a whole - including what we've seen of series 8 - are: -

1) As Tom Tit rightly says, shallow characterisation. Characters tend to be totally subservient to the plot. We've only begun to explore Clara's personality, yet she's been in the show for nearly two years, a shocking indictment. Good, well-developed, realistic characters that the audience identify with or root for is what really makes for a popular successful TV show. It's what established Doctor Who as a success back in 2005.

2). And second, poor dialogue. Rather than talking in a realistic grounded way, the primary companions of the Moffat era - Amy Pond, River Song, Clara, and to a lesser extent, Rory - all seem to banter. We get pithy asides and snide reposts that really grate after a while. I want real people talking in a real way, not wannabe comedians.

Both of those things have blighted the show for several years, and I don't see it changing until Moffat hands over to a new creative team.

That said, I've enjoyed series 8 and love Capaldi's Doctor - he's a fine actor and his doctor is nunanced and intriuging. But he desperately needs better writing.

This thread has your name all over

My opinion is very important, and deserves its own thread

Like you I would agree this is already the strongest opening run in New Who history.

But what you mention is probably my main issue with it if i had to pick one. It has been toned down a degree from Elevens era which slipped into comical self referential parody of itself at times but still- we don't need it at all. Just stop it. I'm not sure why they do it. Its not big or clever anymore. That sort of post modern nonsense has been around for years now.

All it does is serve to make the show seem smug and too self aware and it comes like a slap in the face back to reality that drags you out of the drama and breaks the suspension of disbelief. One or two meta-references a season is fine. Per episode? No. Enough with the eyebrows. Enough with the age thing. And please! When the Doctor is having his mind invaded by a fearsome beast can we actually ratchet up the drama and not have a ludicrous reference to his sartorial choices which feels so out of place. Yes its amusing for a few second until you think about it but its just not good writing. Its playing to the audience with a smug nod and a wink. Yeah so it will make a few people on social media go gooey. Don't care. Enough! But sadly this is one of Moffats weak spots. And Gatiss. And in fact alot of modern genre writers. I mean Moffat practically wrote an entire episode of Sherlock ro simultaneously annoy/arouse the teenage fan girl/boy shipping brigade so its not surprising. Its a bit like his annoying thing much as RTDs was to spoil things by throwing in some jarring pop culture reference that is dated and irritating.

But much like that its not spoiling it for me. Just wish they would leave it for now.

Edit- totally agree also about Matt Smith. Its something I felt while watching it but has become even more pronounced since he left and looking back on his era as a whole. They wasted his talent. I enjoyed everything he did on screen but he could and should have been so much better. They didn't know how to develop his doctor so just settled on making him a bumbling clown. A real shame. They must not make the same mistake with Capaldi.

I agree. I want Capaldi's doctor to be given a developmental journey, not to become static. While Smith is a more limited actor than Capaldi, he is still very talented and made for an excellent doctor. But the trajectory was very much down during his tenure. As you say, he became a hand-flapping bumbling clown. In a way, the opposite of Slyvestor McCoy who started as a clown but developed into something much darker and manipulative.

Smith was particularly poorly served, given that even David Tenant was given real development - look at his journey from series 2 through to Waters of Mars.

Strongly agree Tom. So, its not all doom and gloom like you say, Deep Breath and Listen I think were indeed awesome episodes. TBH, I could not see Matt playing the Doctor that way, maybe he had it in him as an actor like saladfingers is suggesting, but the character, his character was painted into a corner. It would have been too much of a shift to get him to play it the way Capaldi has, specifically the darker parts.

I don't think that line when the Doctor pours the droid a drink and says he has a horrible feeling that he has to kill him, when he sees his reflection in the tray when asking the droid about his face, the way he said to Clara at the end of listen he doesn't take orders - these are all things Capaldi is more suited at, because he has a clean slate at the role (I'm not comparing acting abilities here).

He and Moffat have an opportunity to take the Doctor down these brusk, stiffer roads of portrayal. Which, is why at times I can see why it jars when he also plays a bit of a fool - Sherwood was entertaining but too opposite, too soon - so out of sync with episodes around it. That scene with Robin in the jail - cold so easily have been the flavour of the Doctor as was written for Matt just as the scene a few minutes before serving the droid a drink in Listen - getting Clara to press her button to call in the P Gang. Maybe they were scared of the Colin Baker effect and alienating too many fans by making him only a dry and cutting wit Doctor - they were worried he may come out too dark like Baker was at the start - but he's nowhere near that. Colin was angry and cocky, he threatened his companions, Capaldi just mocks their face and dating skills.

And for the other characters - when Psy was talking about losing the people close to him in this weekends episode, I so wanted to see a scene of him back there, having fun, enjoying a warm embrace, in that old life, I felt we should get some empathy and a longer scene with Clara & him, where she developed a strong bond with him. Heck, we could have even got more Clara depth as she shared that she lost her mom, they could have bonded - but there just wasn't time. The episode lengths aren't long enough. So, we had to have empathy for him based on one small chat with Clara and then believe that suddenly this imbues him the desire to lay down his life to save Clara, someone he just met.

I can't even think of the economics involved in making people check scripts diligently for repeats from over the last 50 years, checking for repeats from the last season(s) though is a reasonable ask!

I'm not sure where I stand on on comedy gags, I've liked Capaldis' quips this series. When he asked Robin Hood if people punch him in the face when they meet him, that was funny. When he asks Clara why she has three mirrors, and actually turns his head from side to side, that was hilarious. Err, when he tells her she has taken off her make up, yes jokes like this are stupid, less of those jokes maybe. Those gags about bow ties, scarves etc - well in the context of Deep Breath the scarf comment was quite funny actually - it warmed us to him playing the role. Against the teller, I agree, no real purpose.

So anyway, I'm enjoying this as much as Pink Floyds' Dark Side of the Moon. The first half of the album contains some great songs, but its not perfect, what the hell is "on the Run" all about. Looking forward to the second half focusing more on those stronger songs/scenes you know what I mean .... !

From what I've heard, episode 7 marks a bit of a turning point for the series, supposedly becoming less familiar and more like the darker tone we've been promised. This is all just hearsay and it be turn out that nothing much changes, but certainly all the episodes from 7 to 10 are written by new writers so it's likely the second half will feel a bit less familiar.

I must say, Kill the Moon is probably the episode I'm most excited for. The writer was told my Moffat to "Hinchcliffe the s*** out of the first half" in terms of the first half, so surely that can't be a bad thing? My only worry is that Courtney will be an annoying teenager much like Angie in Nightmare in Silver ("Put me down, I hate you!")

But I see what you mean OP. Time Heist would not have been out of place right in the middle of Series 7 Part 2. It was exactly like the "movie of the week" style which was so familiar last year.
The other 4 episodes though, thankfully, have felt a bit more like a proper series rather than the unconnected stand-alone movie of the week style of Series 7.

I feel that this series is absolutely brimming with potential.

Jenna Coleman is in the form of her life and has absolutely exploded into life in these five episodes and for me with the exception of Time Heist she has been the star of the show every single week.

I really am loving Capaldi's Doctor. He's not quite up there with the previous two IMHO but he's consistently nailing what he's been given and he's showing really different sides to the Doctor. He has moments in both Deep Breath and Listen that really sell you on the character.

Likewise, I'm really enjoying the introduction of Danny Pink so far. He has a very different, awkward feel and brings out a completely new side in Clara that is very refreshing.

Nevertheless, it's not all been perfect. I thought Deep Breath was a solid opener, but with the exception of Listen this series hasn't fully lived up to its potential for me. Into The Dalek wasn't great, the pacing was all wrong and likewise with Robot. In ITD, the dialogue felt very stunted at times and the middle section of the episode was pretty boring. Not to mention the Daleks didn't feel that threatening or impressive which is rare for me as I usually love them. I really enjoyed Robot but the plot was ludicrous and again, sloppy dialogue from Gatiss.

I think Listen is a masterpiece. All three leads shine and it shows what Capaldi and Coleman can do given a real script.

I am hugely optimistic for the back end of this season. The Caretaker looks like a really fun little jaunt that shouldn't be taken too seriously but after that we hit the nitty gritty and episodes 7-10 look much darker, much more in the style that we were expecting and hoping for from this season.

In short, I'm a tad disappointed with what I've seen so far with the exception of Listen but I am hugely optimistic for the rest of the season.

I am enjoying these little jaunts between dark and light stories. Robin Hood and then ghosts in your bedroom - and then a Bank heist??? Whass going on?? Such fun at the moment. I'm looking forward to next weeks 'Caretaker' episode - looks like a normal contemporary story to me (I hope!). Nice mixture