All the b*tching about caps doc........

"He detached...he grumpy...he dark...he not the doctor", etc etc

People focus too much on clara, when they seem to be missing the point, imo


Yes, he makes weird comments about appearance etc, yes, he a little clingy to her.....but heres the rub, he grew to a VERY old man as 11, longer than any incarnation that we are aware of, and then, when his new set of regens came, that he was not expecting, it was a incredibly violent, traumatic event on him......it effectively reset him to newborn state, if you like......thus scrambling, blank slating his mind, behaviours etc, leaving him at the core, a basic doctor....probably the doctor thar he was BEFORE he fled Gallifray, the doctor that was aloof, indifferent to species not his own, very similar to doc 1 when we met him.

Through clara, we see the only link to the history of his personal life, he is still in trauma, mentally, from the biggest change in his known life......she is his rehabilitation, his conscience, helping to *reboot* him, if you will......"am I a good man" etc.

I warrant that over the course of the series will see subtle tweeks to his persona, as more of the doctor filters through to him, dont think we loose the serious, dark side, and I really hope we dont, as to me, there is a lot of pertwee in there, and a strong classic who slant, which to me is a great thing.

I feel that imo, more people need to bone up on the long history of the show, and they would see that caps doc, lives on from them.

Cheesey

Let me present a slightly different point of view.

Firstly, Yes, I do agree that in theory, the Doctor has faced a huge change and the only lifeline to the 'old' set of incarnations is Clara BUT....

If he is still somewhat in a state of flux, unstable or simply still trying to piece together who he is, then Moffat would surely have painted a clearer picture of this on screen (bearing in mind that the mainstream of the viewing audience are children), and as such would have none, or little knowledge of the previous incarnations (especially Classic Who Doctors).

Also bear in mind that the Doctors that they have known are the livlier, more expressive, jolly happy people so the contrast is made that much more starker and naturally, some will not like Capaldi's Doctor. To them let us say "wait and see".

It is a tricky part to pull of as any actor playing the Doctor has to appease both viewers of both nu-who and Classic. There's gonna be those who won't like this or that.

That said, I do think Capaldi's Doctor is going to grow on us as the series continues.

Just a thought

Well from MY point of view: I see Capaldi as the NEW Doctor from all his past limited regenerations......and is now coping with it! He has to start afresh! Like William Hartnell did in his first old regeneration!
(I cannot believe that Peter is the same age as William was in 1963!)

I'm sure that Mr Capaldi will become a more lovable Doctor in times to come (like old Bill did!) and be loved by many!!

I'm liking Peter C, it's been an interesting performance and we are not even half way through his first year yet. I see where you are coming from regarding the long time he spent on Trenzalore and the fact that we have a new set of regenerations.

So now we have an oft quoted "less user-friendly" Doctor who at present is travelling with a teacher (maybe soon teacherS) from Coal Hill School. He clearly feels he needs Clara at present, and the parallels between Peter C and Hartnell are definitely there to be drawn, I think. By the end of Hartnell's first year, I had gone from finding him fascinating to also being very fond of him. Now I think Hartnell's Doctor and era is fantastic, so am finding this very interesting.

Not just because of the hair colour and clothes, and the fact that Peter's older than the last few Doctors, I'm seeing a bit of Season 7 Pertwee too, who could be very abrasive and was obviously a bit teed off that he was stuck on one planet with an unusable TARDIS. And the post Time War Ninth Doctor had an edge to him and Capaldi's "Pudding Brains!" is not far removed from "Stupid Apes!"

Then again, ALL the Doctors have had an edge to them, IMO. The Fifth could be a right sarcy get and the Eleventh could be dark and occasionally a bit scary too. It wasn't all smiles and celery and fezes and pirouettes. The Twelth is a work in progress and I'm enjoying the trip.

Bingo, exactly what am trying to get at, we are in new territory for the doc, he has been reborn, he persona set back to the beginning.........he grows, in the next 50years, we grow with him....

*gives that person a virtual high five*

Whatever they're trying to do with Capaldi's Doctor (and it seems he will get nastier before he gets better) they're failing to support this with the quality of writing it requires. There's no depth to him and no hint of what's really going. It's all just conjecture. You don't slap your audience in the face with exposition but you also don't leave them to fill in all the gaps for you.

Essentially, Moffat wanted a less friendly Doctor, wrote that without thinking of why then pegged a sort of there plot on it. It's really just highlighting his weaknesses with character arcs.

He's been given a new set of regenerations but his persona hasn't been set back to the beginning. He's still the same him he has been all these years and has the memories of all his experiences in those years, a point which a lot of references to old things by the doctor in these first 5 episodes back up.

Maybe he'll get a call from Jenny asking him to do a spot of babysitting for her

Basically, this.

There simply doesn't need to be lots of on-screen exposition and explaination of why the Doctor is different - he is always different, from one regeneration to the next. We have seen that over the past 51 years. It's an established fact.

And right back at the beginning, he was a grumpy old man. If anything, Capaldi's Doctor is simply reverting back to the original type.

I didna say he lost his memories, his persona, personality, is what has been reset, how he interacts with others, ie, back to the personality he had as the first doc, ie, looks at clara/humans in a alien way, he knows what they are, the importance etc, from memories, but, think of it like this....you get amnesia, but you remember what a computer is, but not how to operate it....everything is familier, yet at the same time, not, and he needs a guide.....he is, imo, suffering from a form a form of post traumatic stress syndrome.

Maybe he is looking at Clara and humans in an alien way, because the regeneration energy originated from the other Time Lords. Maybe they just gave him the arrogant, superior feelings they have. Maybe he is just a little more Time Lord than he knows now. Maybe the robots aren't the only one who want to be led to a promised land.

But maybe it has nothing to do with his new cycle, and he's just a grumpy old man.

Maybe he's feeling grouchy as he is a Pisces as Mars is in ascend and it is feeding the fire of wars, in water signs.... yeah, I don't do astrology.

There are a lot of maybes.

I still don't quite agree. I don't think he has amnesia in any way, he's referencing his past all the time. He may have similarities to the first doctor, but at the same time is not back to the same personality at all. Each incarnation of the doctor is unique and Capaldi's doctor is different to any that have come before him and not just a copy of hartnell's doctor.

All that has happened is that his outer surface personality (i.e the little things like patience and temperament) have altered in the same way they do every time he regenerates. He's grumpy and brash, just because that's just him in this incarnation.

Eccleston's doctor was grumpy and brash also. Each incarnation is different athough deep down the same. Nothing has happened with Capaldi that hasn't happened before.

I agree, it still feels like Twelve 'isn't quite done yet.' Just odd things in each episode which he says and does; perhaps it's also the fact that he doesn't really react to situations in the way I would expect the Doctor to react which is making me think this. Perhaps I'm wrong and this is how he will be throughout his tenure but I sincerely hope not.

Gotta say, I just don't think this series, so far, has had enough depth to really allow PC to stretch his legs.... so far.

I thought the 1st ep' was solid enough, the Robin Hood thing was an enjoyable enough "romp" and the last 2 ep's have been (seemingly) superficial dross.

About the only thing we've really learned about the new Doctor is that he can be callous, self-serving and uncaring and, boy, are they ever laying that on thick, at every opportunity, to make sure we all notice it.

I suppose, with hindsight, they did something similar with Matt Smith at first; sending him off, rattling around the universe with Amy, for a while until they brought it all together again with the "cracks in time" arc.
We know there is something odd going on with the whole "paradise" thing so, hopefully, when we start to see what that's all about it'll improve our insight into this new Doctor.

My greatest concern is that, with Moffat's reluctance to produce a decent number of episodes per season, we'll either end up with an abbreviated story-arc or it'll drag on for years, 8 episodes per season, until people begin to lose interest.