Only hope that Carries brother does not become a Dana in season 5.
Ok so she has a brother, dont want to know a 15 year old kid.
Ok so she has a brother, dont want to know a 15 year old kid.
Homeland Season 4 US pace
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I dont think it was pointless.
Carries journey is just as important as the other stuff (and maybe really what the show is about), With her father dying her issues with her mother had to be addressed (more so with her issues with her child), It was not only showing her she could have a relationship it was showing she could also raise a child, The chat in the park showed that her Dad knew how strong she was has and he knew she would return and take care of her family, Carrie never really had much to lose before but now she has and how she deals with her job now she has will be different and also how she deals with losing trust in the one thing/person she had faith in. She has lost two father's and since to some e
I dont see a issue with a "nothing" episode as i think we get too hung up on the word "finale" nowadays, Be it a end of season one or the last episode ever. For me they are just another episode
Carries journey is just as important as the other stuff (and maybe really what the show is about), With her father dying her issues with her mother had to be addressed (more so with her issues with her child), It was not only showing her she could have a relationship it was showing she could also raise a child, The chat in the park showed that her Dad knew how strong she was has and he knew she would return and take care of her family, Carrie never really had much to lose before but now she has and how she deals with her job now she has will be different and also how she deals with losing trust in the one thing/person she had faith in. She has lost two father's and since to some e
I dont see a issue with a "nothing" episode as i think we get too hung up on the word "finale" nowadays, Be it a end of season one or the last episode ever. For me they are just another episode
Originally Posted by The_don1:
“I dont think it was pointless.
Carries journey is just as important as the other stuff (and maybe really what the show is about), With her father dying her issues with her mother had to be addressed (more so with her issues with her child), It was not only showing her she could have a relationship it was showing she could also raise a child, The chat in the park showed that her Dad knew how strong she was has and he knew she would return and take care of her family, Carrie never really had much to lose before but now she has and how she deals with her job now she has will be different and also how she deals with losing trust in the one thing/person she had faith in. She has lost two father's and since to some e
I dont see a issue with a "nothing" episode as i think we get too hung up on the word "finale" nowadays, Be it a end of season one or the last episode ever. For me they are just another episode”
“I dont think it was pointless.
Carries journey is just as important as the other stuff (and maybe really what the show is about), With her father dying her issues with her mother had to be addressed (more so with her issues with her child), It was not only showing her she could have a relationship it was showing she could also raise a child, The chat in the park showed that her Dad knew how strong she was has and he knew she would return and take care of her family, Carrie never really had much to lose before but now she has and how she deals with her job now she has will be different and also how she deals with losing trust in the one thing/person she had faith in. She has lost two father's and since to some e
I dont see a issue with a "nothing" episode as i think we get too hung up on the word "finale" nowadays, Be it a end of season one or the last episode ever. For me they are just another episode”
I agree it wasn't a pointless episode. I'd just love the scriptwriters to put some more happiness in Carrie's life. Has a new season been commissioned?
Originally Posted by streetwise:
“I agree it wasn't a pointless episode. I'd just love the scriptwriters to put some more happiness in Carrie's life. Has a new season been commissioned?”
“I agree it wasn't a pointless episode. I'd just love the scriptwriters to put some more happiness in Carrie's life. Has a new season been commissioned?”
Yea it has
It also showed how quickly things changed as well
We have had Saul who while cannot be called a moral compass and would play the game but mostly do the moral/right thing and yet now is seemingly willing to brush the deaths that we have seen this season under the carpet just to get his job back, He has done something we thought we would not ever do but at the same time done in a way that makes sense.
We knew the water in this world was muddy but the episode showed really how muddy the water was and how complicated it can get, One minute you are a guys hostage the next gives you the keys to the castle
Originally Posted by nathanbrazil:
“Then you haven't seen the final Dexter, which was an utter disgrace. Compared to that, the low key ending of Homeland was a triumph.”
“Then you haven't seen the final Dexter, which was an utter disgrace. Compared to that, the low key ending of Homeland was a triumph.”
I've seen that multiple times actually, and whilst I appreciate I am in the minority I really enjoyed it. I never wanted Dexter to die or to be arrested, but the fact he ended up in his self imposed exile and solitude after his actions led to the death of the one person who had stood by him, was perfect I thought.
Besides, theres a difference between a season finale and an overall finale, the season finale should surely aim to resolve (or at least progress and move on) the story that has been the narrative of the series, I don't think Homeland season 4 finale really did
Originally Posted by nathanbrazil:
“Her mum was never a whore, just someone who liked lots of sex.”
“Her mum was never a whore, just someone who liked lots of sex.”
Which is actually one of the dictionary definitions of the word whore.
Originally Posted by Los_Tributos:
“Which is actually one of the dictionary definitions of the word whore.”
“Which is actually one of the dictionary definitions of the word whore.”
Yet not what most people mean by the term, as you well know. Carrie's mum did not have sex for money, she was just an enthusiastic fan of the pink piccolo.... as if Carrie.
Originally Posted by bazzer00:
“was a huge let down....such a slow episode and not following the pace of what has been an excellent season. could have been watching a completely different programme to be honest...
”
“was a huge let down....such a slow episode and not following the pace of what has been an excellent season. could have been watching a completely different programme to be honest...
”
Good article on why the episode had such a change of pace:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/12/22/sh...meland-finale/
Originally Posted by LostFool:
“Good article on why the episode had such a change of pace:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/12/22/sh...meland-finale/”
“Good article on why the episode had such a change of pace:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/12/22/sh...meland-finale/”
Poor excuse.
Just making it up as they go along.
The show didn't need such a slow finale and could have done it all during the season.
It was just a bad episode. Homeland doesn't do family drama well.
Originally Posted by nathanbrazil:
“Her mum was never a whore, just someone who liked lots of sex. Her mum, like Carrie, enjoyed brief intense relationships, and should not have got married. Unfortunately, she realised this too late, then paid the price when she got pregnant. The fact that she seems to have got it right the second time around, with her son, went some way to redeeming the character.”
“Her mum was never a whore, just someone who liked lots of sex. Her mum, like Carrie, enjoyed brief intense relationships, and should not have got married. Unfortunately, she realised this too late, then paid the price when she got pregnant. The fact that she seems to have got it right the second time around, with her son, went some way to redeeming the character.”
Definition of whore: a promiscuous woman. By her own admission she'd go out and have sex with other men.
Originally Posted by koantemplation:
“Poor excuse.
Just making it up as they go along.
The show didn't need such a slow finale and could have done it all during the season.
It was just a bad episode. Homeland doesn't do family drama well.”
“Poor excuse.
Just making it up as they go along.
The show didn't need such a slow finale and could have done it all during the season.
It was just a bad episode. Homeland doesn't do family drama well.”
Your last point is similar to one I made yesterday and is absolutely relevant when discussing the finale. I have no problem with Homeland being as much a character driven programme as it is an action driven one, allowing for that it makes total sense that from time to time the brakes are applied and the characters are allowed to evolve, experience real life issues and develop accordingly, but there's 2 issues with that:
1) It doesn't have to be in the season finale when the penultimate episode was so high octane and seemingly set it up for something intense and special. By the way, I know another poster has said we have too high expectations for finales, but surely that's because we are conditioned to do so? All channels hype the hell out of series finales in the run up to it, and it has become the accepted norm that they will be a cut above the usual.
2) As you so correctly say. Family drama is all well and good but almost consistently Homeland just does not actually do it that well.
It is a real shame that it has disappointed and underwhelmed so many, looking forward to seeing the feedback from the 'UK Pace' viewers to see where the majority view falls. I only hope they felt it was required so Season 5 can hit the ground running and hit the stellar heights season 4 did for the vast majority
I think the finale was like a badly positioned filler episode.
As I was watching it, I did think that there was possibly another episode to go, and that IMDB had the incorrect number of episodes.
It was a twelve episode road to nowhere, where there was nothing resolved, and not even the slightest bit of vengeance. It looks like the Pakistan storyline is unfinished business, and will always be unfinished business because they're not going to return to Pakistan in the next series.
As I was watching it, I did think that there was possibly another episode to go, and that IMDB had the incorrect number of episodes.
It was a twelve episode road to nowhere, where there was nothing resolved, and not even the slightest bit of vengeance. It looks like the Pakistan storyline is unfinished business, and will always be unfinished business because they're not going to return to Pakistan in the next series.
Originally Posted by newyorkcitygirl:
“It was Dar Adal, havent you seen the final episode yet?”
“It was Dar Adal, havent you seen the final episode yet?”
Not shown in the UK until 28th December, I have resisted the urge to download it.
David
Originally Posted by MoreTears:
“It is disappointing to see the reactions to the season finale. Homeland came on the scene four years ago touted as "from the producers of 24," but it was made clear very quickly that Homeland wasn't meant to be just a high-adrenaline action-fest like 24, and would instead give us serious character drama. For the last few weeks, people have been praising Homeland's recent run of episodes that very much tapped into the 24 part of its DNA, and I enjoyed those episodes, but I don't want Homeland turning into 24. There doesn't have to be action, or at least people's lives in jeopardy, EVERY week. There is nothing wrong with drama that involves people simply talking to each other. Now if this finale had talking that was only about Carrie's family issues or Carrie and Quinn's relationship, that might legitimize mentions of EastEnders or Coronation Street, but I think there was enough talk pertaining to the national security business to say Homeland fulfilled its remit this week.”
“It is disappointing to see the reactions to the season finale. Homeland came on the scene four years ago touted as "from the producers of 24," but it was made clear very quickly that Homeland wasn't meant to be just a high-adrenaline action-fest like 24, and would instead give us serious character drama. For the last few weeks, people have been praising Homeland's recent run of episodes that very much tapped into the 24 part of its DNA, and I enjoyed those episodes, but I don't want Homeland turning into 24. There doesn't have to be action, or at least people's lives in jeopardy, EVERY week. There is nothing wrong with drama that involves people simply talking to each other. Now if this finale had talking that was only about Carrie's family issues or Carrie and Quinn's relationship, that might legitimize mentions of EastEnders or Coronation Street, but I think there was enough talk pertaining to the national security business to say Homeland fulfilled its remit this week.”
I agree with that.
Although, like MrTheD, I found myself expecting some major twist like a car bomb or someone to have kidnapped Carrie's daughter but I was glad they didn't do something like that which would have felt a bit cheap in context and like something 24 would do.
Originally Posted by MoreTears:
“It is disappointing to see the reactions to the season finale. Homeland came on the scene four years ago touted as "from the producers of 24," but it was made clear very quickly that Homeland wasn't meant to be just a high-adrenaline action-fest like 24, and would instead give us serious character drama. For the last few weeks, people have been praising Homeland's recent run of episodes that very much tapped into the 24 part of its DNA, and I enjoyed those episodes, but I don't want Homeland turning into 24. There doesn't have to be action, or at least people's lives in jeopardy, EVERY week. There is nothing wrong with drama that involves people simply talking to each other. Now if this finale had talking that was only about Carrie's family issues or Carrie and Quinn's relationship, that might legitimize mentions of EastEnders or Coronation Street, but I think there was enough talk pertaining to the national security business to say Homeland fulfilled its remit this week.”
“It is disappointing to see the reactions to the season finale. Homeland came on the scene four years ago touted as "from the producers of 24," but it was made clear very quickly that Homeland wasn't meant to be just a high-adrenaline action-fest like 24, and would instead give us serious character drama. For the last few weeks, people have been praising Homeland's recent run of episodes that very much tapped into the 24 part of its DNA, and I enjoyed those episodes, but I don't want Homeland turning into 24. There doesn't have to be action, or at least people's lives in jeopardy, EVERY week. There is nothing wrong with drama that involves people simply talking to each other. Now if this finale had talking that was only about Carrie's family issues or Carrie and Quinn's relationship, that might legitimize mentions of EastEnders or Coronation Street, but I think there was enough talk pertaining to the national security business to say Homeland fulfilled its remit this week.”
Hi MT,
i think the main reason for the disappointment was the unresolved/unexplained plotlines from Pakistan as much as the "handbrake turn" in the main subject matter of the finale. As I've said before, the original Israeli series put the family dynamic front and centre which meant we actually cared about the characters home lives. In Homeland, they put the thriller aspects first and, as a result, the family dynamics always felt "tacked on". The finale was the perfect illustration of this.
K
Aha a Homeland thread! Brilliant. Probably best reigniting this as well, given that the new season is a mere four weeks away.
We have just finished Season Four and I thought it was brilliant. AND I loved the finale.
Yes, okay, it wasn't an action packed finale, or a twist-ridden finale, which we are used to from Homeland.... except that it kind of was, just a different sort of twist and a different kind of action.
We are used to Saul being something of a moral compass. Or should I see, we are used to Saul being Carrie's moral compass and now... Carrie has realised that Saul isn't as good as she always believed he was. That maybe this time, he has been out for himself a little bit to try and secure the top job. Now, he's in league with Dar Adal... who is one of the shadiest characters on the show. Looking forward to seeing where they take this in Season Five. As Carrie said, we expected that Saul would 'spit in his face.' But he didn't. This was a massive character twist and I was really quite shocked to see Saul sitting there in the final scenes of the Season.
Quinn. Gosh, where do I start? Quinn started the Season on self destruct, being confronted over his feelings for Carrie, then basically acknowledged that she is his weak spot when he agreed, despite his intense protestations over joining her. I thought it was interesting watching Carrie lean on Quinn so heavily this season, and yet he wasn't afraid to confront her when he thought what she was doing was wrong. (It seems to me like you're f**king a child!) Carrie's not used to being challenged so this was a really interesting dynamic to watch. And he didn't take the shot against Haqanni (sp.?) at the end. And that was because Carrie told him not to.
And then there was the kiss. I thought this was a real emotional pay off for both Carrie and Quinn fans this season. What is interesting about this relationship is how many people have been against it because of Brody's death last season. But it's so much more than that. The relationship between Carrie and Quinn has been building since they met in Season Two. It's been very very obvious that Quinn has always had feelings for Carrie (the looks when Brody was in the room, the elongated stares between the two across car parks - aren't they always in car parks?!) and he would quite literally do anything for her, even if it's not in his interests. Let's face it, most of the things that Quinn does for Carrie could end up in his death!!
In this finale episode, we saw Quinn vulnerable. But not just vulnerable in a kind of 'let's drink ten bottles of vodka and sleep with some random girl' vulnerable. In a really happy and in love, 'this is how I feel about you and this is what I want for our future' kind of vulnerable. I would wager Quinn has never said anything like this to anyone before. But much as we see Quinn put it all on the line, he's not ready yet. He reacts in a very 'old Quinn' way when she says she's not ready. New Quinn might have waited. But Quinn, much like Carrie, has his demons. And hey, the show isn't nearly done yet. I'm sure there's much more to come from these two.
Yes, the Carrie's Mother storyline was quite dull. But then again, it wasn't really about Carrie's Mother. It was about us realising why Carrie is the way she is, and why she was the way she was with Brody, and why she pulled away from a moment of happiness with Quinn, determined that she would 'just f**k it up.' This was showing us that Carrie can do it, she can be happy and perhaps she will be... but not just yet, because hey, the show isn't done yet! It's showing us the possibilities for her character.
The moments in which Carrie tried desperately to contact Quinn after the conversation with her Mother were, in my opinion, the most tense and the most heart breaking of the entire season. Here she is, realising that she has her long-haul guy ready and waiting in the wings.... but he's gone.
This episode, more than anything, showed us the nature of the world that these characters live in. Normal life and happiness is dangled in front of them, and then taken away from them. And that each of them, Saul, Carrie, Quinn, even Dar Adal.... their characters have been shaped by their experiences in the CIA and irrepairably damaged by the country that they're trying so hard to protect.
My twopenniesworth.
We have just finished Season Four and I thought it was brilliant. AND I loved the finale.
Yes, okay, it wasn't an action packed finale, or a twist-ridden finale, which we are used to from Homeland.... except that it kind of was, just a different sort of twist and a different kind of action.
We are used to Saul being something of a moral compass. Or should I see, we are used to Saul being Carrie's moral compass and now... Carrie has realised that Saul isn't as good as she always believed he was. That maybe this time, he has been out for himself a little bit to try and secure the top job. Now, he's in league with Dar Adal... who is one of the shadiest characters on the show. Looking forward to seeing where they take this in Season Five. As Carrie said, we expected that Saul would 'spit in his face.' But he didn't. This was a massive character twist and I was really quite shocked to see Saul sitting there in the final scenes of the Season.
Quinn. Gosh, where do I start? Quinn started the Season on self destruct, being confronted over his feelings for Carrie, then basically acknowledged that she is his weak spot when he agreed, despite his intense protestations over joining her. I thought it was interesting watching Carrie lean on Quinn so heavily this season, and yet he wasn't afraid to confront her when he thought what she was doing was wrong. (It seems to me like you're f**king a child!) Carrie's not used to being challenged so this was a really interesting dynamic to watch. And he didn't take the shot against Haqanni (sp.?) at the end. And that was because Carrie told him not to.
And then there was the kiss. I thought this was a real emotional pay off for both Carrie and Quinn fans this season. What is interesting about this relationship is how many people have been against it because of Brody's death last season. But it's so much more than that. The relationship between Carrie and Quinn has been building since they met in Season Two. It's been very very obvious that Quinn has always had feelings for Carrie (the looks when Brody was in the room, the elongated stares between the two across car parks - aren't they always in car parks?!) and he would quite literally do anything for her, even if it's not in his interests. Let's face it, most of the things that Quinn does for Carrie could end up in his death!!
In this finale episode, we saw Quinn vulnerable. But not just vulnerable in a kind of 'let's drink ten bottles of vodka and sleep with some random girl' vulnerable. In a really happy and in love, 'this is how I feel about you and this is what I want for our future' kind of vulnerable. I would wager Quinn has never said anything like this to anyone before. But much as we see Quinn put it all on the line, he's not ready yet. He reacts in a very 'old Quinn' way when she says she's not ready. New Quinn might have waited. But Quinn, much like Carrie, has his demons. And hey, the show isn't nearly done yet. I'm sure there's much more to come from these two.
Yes, the Carrie's Mother storyline was quite dull. But then again, it wasn't really about Carrie's Mother. It was about us realising why Carrie is the way she is, and why she was the way she was with Brody, and why she pulled away from a moment of happiness with Quinn, determined that she would 'just f**k it up.' This was showing us that Carrie can do it, she can be happy and perhaps she will be... but not just yet, because hey, the show isn't done yet! It's showing us the possibilities for her character.
The moments in which Carrie tried desperately to contact Quinn after the conversation with her Mother were, in my opinion, the most tense and the most heart breaking of the entire season. Here she is, realising that she has her long-haul guy ready and waiting in the wings.... but he's gone.
This episode, more than anything, showed us the nature of the world that these characters live in. Normal life and happiness is dangled in front of them, and then taken away from them. And that each of them, Saul, Carrie, Quinn, even Dar Adal.... their characters have been shaped by their experiences in the CIA and irrepairably damaged by the country that they're trying so hard to protect.
My twopenniesworth.
I'm looking forward to the new series.
We've been watching Prisoners of War which is the original Israeli series Homeland is based on. It's different in many ways but we prefer it. It's not action-packed, you get to know more about the characters themselves.
We've been watching Prisoners of War which is the original Israeli series Homeland is based on. It's different in many ways but we prefer it. It's not action-packed, you get to know more about the characters themselves.
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