I have a feeling this year an average dancer will win, Steve Backshall probably hope I'm wrong

I would have liked Zoe Ball to win series 3 but Colin Jackson would have been a well deserved winner.
I don't understand why Darren Gough won series 3 but in my opinion, that isn't as bad as Tom Chambers winning in 2008 (series 6) I wanted Rachel Stevens to win. (Wouldn't have minded if Lisa Snowdon won that series too!)

I really hope your wrong!

I understand what you mean & this is a discussion we have every year. It goes hand in hand with the discussions about the judges having their favourites and the DO (should there even be one and if yes, until what point in the series?).

The 'who was robbed' discussions at least allow the venting of disappointment!

My Mum stopped watching after Chris beat Rickie because Rickie was the better dancer. She's over it now, but still doesn't watch regularly. As you say, there are so many different factors people use make their choice, but I think it will always be a minority view to let the judges decide.

PS I looked up what noch einmal means!: D

If you take the showdance out of the equation than I'd have given that series's gong to Dani Hamer - like I said. Louis did actually do some dancing - he did fantastic tango for Halloweon for example and I quite like his foxtrot too - I think some of Kimberley's dancing was a tad over-marked and you can argue that the cartwheel in her charleston didn't hurt her. I don't know what it was but no one really blew me away that series.

There are worse examples of woz robbed IMO and I still think the biggest travesty was series six where the system worked so that we got whom the judges thought should be in the final rather than who people were actually voting for.

I always got the feeling that year that they were trying to keep yet another sportsman out of the equation. If you think about it, in the previous 5 series, 50% of the top two slots had been occupied by sportsmen/women.

But then I do love a good conspiracy theory.....

My mum has actually been happy with very few of the SCD winners because often the 'best' dancer doesn't win and she's a stickler like that - she trusts the judges too 'fool fool' IMO. Last year was first time that I wasn't happy with the winner but something about Abbey just grated with her and the fact she was overmarked on occasion didn't help - I'd have given it to Natalie.

To be honest very few of my 'favs' have ever won but these days I have two or three couples I like at difference levels - some I know will never win and shouldn't win but I just like them and want to see them outlast those who are worse than they are and to stay long enough so I can enjoy them without them embrassing themselves by outstaying people with more talent than them - Mark Benton last year as a prime example but he went out at just the right time so I was happy. Sometimes it's a question of personality i.e. their routines are fun and full of character, chemistry between partnerships (this year double Ali partnership has that in spades - you can just tell that those two get on like a house on fire - and the footage from the celeb dance rehersal shows that those two got on from the off and were probably paired on that basis as well as fairness - she is never going to win - and height - a lot of winning partnerships have that going for them - Cola, Mattesha and Maren all came across being good friends) and I like underdogs people who you don't expect to be good who are - a big of a weakness for Jake Wood this year in that regard already although I don't expect him to win.

And the year we get an apathy and resignation instead it will be over for SCD. It shows we care for it. The fact that is not strictly about dancing makes it attractive to watch, talk, and get worked up about

The trouble is in all these "vote for your winner" type shows - things come into it other than what the show is about....

People pick up their phones to vote for many reasons

They are a huge fan of X (or their pro dancer) - eg Anton/ Artem/ Pasha/ Natalie etc
They think the judges were unfair to X - anyone the judges put down
They thought that X was better than Y who scored higher marks - eg Scott this year - Austin in the past
They liked the costume/ music eg Susanna and Kevin's Paso last year
X's routine made them laugh eg Chris Hollins Charleston
They think the judges have a pet who is being over marked - eg Zoe Ball, Lisa Snowdon
They like the character x plays in their favourite soap/ drama - any of the soap drama stars
They will vote for anyone from their favourite soap/ drama; and after all that.....

They vote for X because they were the best dancer

Bear in mind that watching Strictly is the only knowledge most of the audience have of ballroom dancing. Most of the viewers couldn't tell a fleckerl from a whisk or a lock step, and they go on the routines they liked (for whatever reason), made them smile or whatever.... add in the fact that 3 of the judges (including, ironically, the one whose opinions are regarded the highest), have little or no knowledge or experience of ballroom dancing techniques, and are often led by totally WRONG critiques, and the show becomes an entertainment show based on dancing rather than a real competition.

Given the different levels of ability in the celebs, it's not fair to judge someone like Jake or Natalie Gumede, be they simply a natural or a ringer, on the same basis as Judy or Jennifer. After week 1/2 they CAN be judged on the improvement in their performances relative to the week before,

This year, Jake, Pixie and Frankie are rightly at the top of the leaderboard at the moment, but their scope for improvement is low compared to someone like Judy Jennifer, Tim or Scott, who have the potential to improve drastically dependent on when they conquer their nerves/ drop their inhibitions/ embrace the dance. It's interesting to note that those at the top of the board are all youngish musicians, actors or presenters used to performing for an audience, those at the bottom are those who are older or not performers. Susanna last year was a classic example of someone who just went for it.... She wasn't the best dancer by a long chalk, but she just threw herself into strictly and didn't care how much of an idiot she may have looked, and got a long way with the judges and viewers because of that attitude.

I don't think Kimberley and Denise were robbed. I can feel a certain amount of sympathy for Kimberley because she seemed nice and came across OK. However, Denise was her own worst enemy - trying to play down her previous experience and turning into a bit of a whinger (and being paired with gobby James didn't help matters). Whereas Louis just got on with it and had something of a 'journey', plus, he was good, especially by the end.

Colin was my first Strictly love - I started dancing because of that season.

He was wonderful. I didnt' know about all the 'popularity' stuff then, I just thought he was great, and I really liked Zoe and Ian too.

I thought the puppets were awful, and meant that Colin lost. It's rather sad to learn that he wouldn't have won anyway.

I felt a bit the same about Rachel and Vincent. Tom was going to win whatever, but at least the showdance was worthy and made the pill easier to swallow.

Austin did a crappy AS, that's what put him out. Mind, Lisa WAS overmarked.

And we did have 'bacofoil', which, as a repeated experience and a big contributor to the thread, is one of my outstanding strictly experiences.

Didn't care about Whittle, so didn't mind Hollins winning that much, although he didn't deserve it.

Haven't really cared too much about who won since, apart from Natalie, but she was unpopular. I can't say I rated Clancey much at all, but still, I enjoy the dancing.

Nah, I think Louis had some 'fake' journey, whereby a bit of lame 'gurning' was hyped up as 'performance' to make it all a bit more palatable that he won.

He wasn't a great dancer, but very popular. Name of the game.

Yep. Double yep!

I agree with most of what's been said over the last day or so - lots of agreement and pragmatism!

Thank goodness it's not just me who finds him odious.

Yes wasn't this back in the day when you could vote in the week leading up to the final ie before seeing them dance?

And IIRC Gough was on a major charm offensive all over the TV with his kids etc?

Or am I imagining that?

Yes - it was also in the days when the judges votes counted in the final, and they insisted on putting Zoe one point ahead of Colin and therefore first on the leaderboard (when IMHO Colin deserved to be ahead of her by one point point)

What that resulted in was a 3 way tie at the first elimination where all 3 of them had 4 points....

Zoe 3 (J) + 1 (P) = 4
Colin 2(J) + 2(P) = 4
Darren 1(J) + 3(P) = 4

We know this was the case as Zoe was first out because the public vote counts for more..... The judges /producers should have known this was going to happen as Zoe had been in the bottom two, and it was clear (as in Lisa Snowdon's year) that she was not getting the public vote despite (or maybe because of) the judges favouritism towards her!

However had they tied Colin and Zoe - we would have had a Colin win.... and Zoe would still have been 3rd

Zoe 3(J) + 1(P) = 4
Colin 3(J) + 2(P) = 5
Darren 1(J) + 3(P) = 4

As it was - it didnt matter WHAT Colin did for his showdance - Darren had already won before either of them danced! Zoe was never going to win, and had they not favoured her in the final, when they were on a hiding to nothing with her, we would have been spared the "Bloke's bloke" as the winner.

Given tjhis was series 3 and the public have repeatedly shown the judges and producers that they dont like being told who the winner should be, you would think they would have learnt that pushing someone the public doesn't take to is a lost cause! (eg Zoe B, Lisa S, Ricky......)

Strangely Abbey only won once on the live tour and that was in her home city of Liverpool. Most of the spoils were shared between Natalie and Susanna.

It wouldn't have worked like that - they eliminated Zoe halfway through the show and people carried on voting. If the result had been set in stone at Zoe's elimination like the above then they couldn't have still accepted votes. Darren still would have beaten Colin by having more public votes between the two of them.

the dancers ensured that all of them won the tour at least once (apparently at the last O2 show this year they were all wearing vote Deborah signs on their backs as she was the only celeb who hadnt won at that point!)

I thought Natalie won virtually all the other shows - it wasnt such a clean sweep as it was when Louis (with Ola) did it - he won them all!

Agree. Louis Was not worthy of winning at all. Oveall Kimberley was much better.

I disagree - Louis was absolutely great - there was nothing "fake" about his journey - he started with the sole advantage of being fit and flexible from his gymnastics - but he couldn't dance all that well at the beginning.

Flavia teased the dancing out of him step by step, and at the end of it he was a very worthy winner - the showdance was was very different - and yes -played to his strengths, but he did some great dancing in there too.

We saw him on the tour - and he was really excellent - in the group dances he was almost indistinguishable from the pros, he deserved to win the tour as well - even over Denise!

Uhmmmm..........no. Remember votegate? Yes, that was a semi-final, but that was the same principle.

Zoe = Lisa
Colin = Rachel
Darren = Tom

With that difference that this tie DID happen, which led to Tom's victory in the end (*shakes fist*).

Back when the judges votes counted, the public vote result would have been the same whenever they looked at it.... Darren had won (according to his autobiography he was ahed by over a million votes or something like that. Darren won the public vote and Colin was second behind him - BUT - had Colin and Zoe tied, or had he been ahead of her, he would still have had a win because judges placing plus public votes would have had him ahead. All that said however it all hypothetical because the judges insisted on having Zoe at the top regardless of what she did, and nothing they did was going to make her win!

Whatever, Zoe (like Lisa Snowdon a couple of years later), was never going to finish higher than 3rd on that series. The judges pet syndrome saw to that!

Votegate was only a problem because of the dance off, with no dance off we would have lost Lisa in the Semi Final. The final that year ended up with the same tie for first place, which wasn't a problem as there was no dance off.

Interesting to think that if the judges had given Rachel or Lisa one more point, Tom would have still been in the Dance Off despite getting the most votes, as could have happened to Austin the week before.

This, truly, is like something out of a nightmare.