Thank you , Darcy, and you're welcome.

That is just brilliant! Exquisite skill and a sense of humour - respect!

(Sorry for intruding - I love this thread even though I know nothing about dance. It's an oasis of sanity and calm amidst all the nonsense in the other threads. And occasionally I even understand what's being explained!)

You're welcome! Glad you liked it!

Haaa! That is absolutely wonderful!!!

I have a question...

I've noticed Aliona and Natalie do a lot of taking up the man's frame and dancing the man's part next to their celeb, so they can see in the mirror how it looks compared to the pro.

This seems an excellent way to teach but you don't see the other female pros do this.

Or the male pros for that matter, although you do see them demonstrate some of the girls moves.

Was just wondering where that method came from, is it a usual teaching method to split the couple and teach them their own parts in isolation or have some of the pros developed it as they know they can do their own part in their sleep so they just focus on their partners part.

I loved it too! Served that couple right as they were taking up lots of space on the floor. Would they have any points deducted for the time spent separated by the other couple?

Thank-you, thank-you Ann_Dancer! That has cheered me up greatly on a not so good day so far. I have tears of laughter running down my cheeks

I'm glad people enjoyed the clip! . I don't think the judges would have marked the other couple down Maggie (they don't get points, just recalls or placings), but kaycee may have more idea.


I don't know Natalie and Aliona's background. However, I am teacher training at the moment and I will have to be able to demonstrate and explain various aspects of the technique for both the lead and follower steps, as well as some general principles (including poise and hold), in order to to pass my exams. Irrespective of any formal qualifications, I don't see how any of the professionals on Strictly could teach a celeb without being able to demonstrate both lead and follow. Yes, you may use mirrors.

I guess some males may feel more self conscious demonstrating the follower poise and hold, which may be why you see it less, although many have no problem with it.

It is quite different when you first start to dance as you would be focussing more on your steps as a leader or follower and may not appreciate what the other half of the partnership is doing, especially if learning 1:1 with a professional (maybe less so if learning as a couple). So for example, I used to be unaware of the 'heel pull' that the lead sometimes dances in ballroom, because it isn't something that the follower needed to learn.

You do not have to know anything about dance to come onto this thread, so you are certainly NOT intruding. So welcome.

It's most unlikely the 2nd couple would be marked down - but Franco might have been! It was a pretty daft thing to do, when all he had to do was step around the couple.

But it has to be remembered all these couples know each other, and they get to know each others routines, and antics are not uncommon! I would guess this was a fairly early round when both couples would be certain of getting through to the next round - there's less place for antics in a final.

I agree - so very welcome! It's really nice to see somebody who's maybe not that into dance appreciating competitive latin and ballroom. I only ever see negative comments about it on DS which I think is a real shame.

All dance teachers need to know the correct technique, steps, etc of both male and female - leader and follower, call it what you will. It's no good just trying to explain things, you need to demonstrate it, so a student can copy. If a male teacher is teaching a couple, he will dance as lady with the male of the couple, so that male can understand better what he needs to do to lead. Then that teacher will dance with the lady.

Then the best way a teacher can ensure a student couple knows exactly what they are doing, is to make each dance round the room alone - no partner at all. That way you know that one partner isn't relying on the other.


So what Aliona and Natalie do is what they all (should) do. Sometimes a problem arises if a student male is uncomfortable dancing in ballroom hold with a male teacher, which may happen with the Strictly celebs, but the vts of them actually training are now so few and far between it's difficult to get a true idea of how any of them teach.

Yes that's true,

I suppose you only see what they show you in the VTs and it's probably that I've only seen those two doing it this way and all the others may well do it too.

Yes, lovely to see other people on this thread. I agree, noone should have to be a dancer to contribute.

Just to add to kaycee's comment. The use of mirrors (mentioned above by BMLisa) is very useful, since what the student thinks they are doing, and what they are actually doing, can often be different. An example of this is sway. Many a time I have said to my teacher "but I am swaying...") only to be told to look in the mirror and to find my body is straight. This is because it takes a lot of effort to correct a broken ugly dip in a particular direction (caused by the stress of the step), and even more effort to sway in the right direction with no broken lines.

I know some past celebs have been sometimes described as delusional, but it is actually quite difficult to be objective about your dancing.

Video cameras are also useful.

For beginners this would be quite invaluable. To be able to copy the Pro as best as they can, and by use of mirrors too. In these instances, the Pro can explain and demonstrate what the celeb needs to do, to create the correct shape, use of head weight, swing/sway etc, as well as the actual steps of course.

Solo work is invaluable for any dancer, whether beginner or advanced.

Any lady dancer will ( or should) know the mans technique, and the mans steps etc, and vice versa.

As you progress, ( I'm speaking about ballroom) this type of tuition ( side by side) is not common as it is assumed that as an experience dancer, you know these things. However, having said that, I am used to both my male and lady teachers partnering me to check that I am doing what I should be doing.

I can totally understand there is a disconnect between what is happening on the floor and what is happening in your head - I had this when I 'was' Olga Korbutt but could barely manage a handstand - but I had to accept defeat on seeing the filmed evidence. Which is what I imagine is happens to the celebs. A delusional week one should be the end of it, really because after that the evidence between head and fact is well and truly there!

Agree with Ann about video cameras being useful ....as they say, the camera never lies!

Ah but maybe you shouldn't have accepted defeat aggs!

No, I'm ashamed to say that my delusional period lasted for longer than the equivalent of one Strictly week.

First you tell yourself the judges were unfair. Then you see yourself on video and convince yourself that you just had a bad day because you were nervous, you had the wrong shoes, you didn't get enough practice, xyz said something that put you off.

Then after it goes not so well again, you convince yourself that you really have learnt the lessons from last time and are soooooo muuuuch better now. That isn't entirely a delusion, more an exaggeration, and can go on for some time, until you at last realise that it really is just a matter of being the best you can be, with the knowledge and experience you currently have, and to keep working at it.

And you may then get that much desired success. Or you may not. But it's fun anyway.

There is so much emotional investment. I have a lot of sympathy for the celebs.

And weirdly - Ann - you can go out on the comp floor and dance what you think is total rubbish, and get your best results ever!!!

Yes, I agree!

Thank you kaycee and Ann_Dancer for your responses.

It's a great video clip.

Thanks everyone.

I enjoy this thread. X

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it would be a good idea for all dances to include a required element as they used to have on DOI. For example, all couples in Fox have to include a reverse wave, fan and hockey stick in CCC, sliding doors in rumba, quick open reverse in QS etc.in their routines ?
Each element would have to be explained to the viewers at some point ( and to some of the judges) .It would be very easy to compare the quality of those set basics, comparing couple to couple.

Oooh! That didn't work out too well on Strictly when Erin tried it......

Yes, I really like this idea. Also it would be nice to have a demo of the elements by a really good couple so that viewers (and as you say some of the judges ) knew what it would ideally look like.

The only problem is that they would have to stop mixing the dances up too much each week, and some people might not like that.