maggie I posted two pics in that thread one from a ballroom couple at blackpool imo nothing wrong with the hold - now they have changed it to flow )

No proper ballroom hold - a perfect Tango hold. Just to make what I think clear.

That doesn't make it at al clear. Good night.

Hopefully someone will answer either way!

Thanks bendy. Honestly the convolutions gone through to rubbish celeb dancers. I'm so glad the series has ended. (Btw sorry to read you had a bad year. Me too. Take care.)

Yes, it was a proper Tango hold. Personally I would have liked Kellei to have adjust her left arm placement, It looked too high up Kevins arm, whereas it should look like an extension of Kevins arm.- to complete the topline, I never like to see the ladies left hand on the back of the mans right arm, I feel it looks better, very toned,, styled and tucked underneath, but thats personal choice.It also creates a stronger looking frame

Yes, the tango hold is more compact than the ballroom hold for other dances with the lady held more to the man's right hand side and the ladies left hand pointing downwards, underneath the man's arm as described by Jennifer.

Yes this is acceptable of course, but personally I keep my hand toned, styled horizontally underneath my partners arm. Very strong feel as his downward resistance is met with my upward resistance / pressure( of arms). This is a very strong feel and look to Tango hold.

Aren't we saying the same thing Jennifer? I.e. I am saying the palm faces downwards (my post might have been unclear since pointing downwards could imply something else). This is the IDTA guidance although I accept that competitive dancing is often different from the technique book.

I always thought from previous series they have said there should be no space between the partners bodies in a tango and I saw a few occasions where there were quite wide gaps between them but they never mentioned this. But then Kevin's strange choreography choices on a couple of the dances butchered them and they mostly didn't care anyway.

Yes, perhaps I misunderstood.....the "hand pointing down" part. I have seen ladies with their hand under the arm but hand turned with palm to face themselves if you see what I mean.

In an ideal world, there should be no gapping in any ballroom dance, but the reality is that it does happen, and at the highest level too. Non dancers have no idea how difficult it is to keep connection throughout the dance, and of course it is something that you learn over time. It is the job of the lady to "fill the gap" mostly as her body weight should be travelling forward to her partner even though she is ( normally) travelling backwards.

I thought the contact was really good. I only saw them lose contact momentarily on a promenade. There are no rules that say the bodies of a couple MUST be in contact all of the dance (especially when in fast flight where you may lose some contact as a trade off). However, it is generally accepted that it improves movement, synchronisation and posture if you are in close contact most of the time. Regarding your last sentence, this thread is raised to discuss specific details of ballroom technique, and to keep away from emotive comment.

Since inevitably the fix/conspiracy theories abound on here today, could I ask did you think Kellie & Kevin's dances were worth all those 10s ?
(I don't actually understand how they can score the show dances, particularly ones that involve very little of the classic ballroom/latin steps.)

I must say Kevin frustrates me - he can produce lovely routines like their semi final AS, but seems to much prefer ugly stompy stuff like the showdance, their rap thing a few weeks back and their so-called VW.

In my opinion, in the Tango, yes it was a slightly overmarked. I could see that Kellie put her all into it as usual, and she really performed it well but there were errors that I could see and for that reason I would not have given 10's. Having said that though, I enjoyed the dance.
With regard to the showdances I suppose ( don't know) that they judge on the entertainment value and whether the routine was excecuted well.

when I have judged showdance I always look for entertainment value, music and if routine fits it etc - on strictly it is just showdance - not latin showdance or ballroom showdance and it is often said rule book is out the door- whereas if I was judging latin showdance I would want to see latin in there as part of the show routine same with ballroom.

Imo I would have marked it as the judges did last night for the showdance, agree the tango not a 40 worth maybe 38 or 39

Thought K&K unlucky, they should have won simply based on last nights dances. Thought they were brilliant overall, putting 200% in.Many Pro's and dancers that I know feel the same.

my fb timeline reflects that too Jennifer and some great 'old pros' on there who say exactly the same as you. Despite what others say on here do not think Cliftons will be going anywhere - I look forward to Christmas special to see Jo with a decent celeb ( I hear she does great dem with Anton to Shirley Bassey)

WOW that sounds fab, I'll watch with interest. Don't normally like Antons style but have seen him before with Jo, and he seems to up his game ! .....and to Dame Shirley too, look forward to it.
I get fed up reading the dreadful threads re the Clifton family, so don't bother wasting my time and energy on such negative people getting so worked up over such fabulous dancers and people - people that they don't even know. Kev, Jo and Karen will be going nowhere thankfully, SCD would be a much poorer show if they lost them.

Thanks for the answers... Jennifer F - I liked your answer in the 'Clifton manipulation' thread about questionable hold from the professionals in a previous Tango routine from then; all I can say is it explains the confusion at times between the two. I think it's because of that that Kellie's hold looked very much it was from the Waltz to me yesterday but apologies for that.

In terms of the winner, I'd say Jay was the stronger dancer throughout the series though he didn't have a fantastic final. But both Georgia and Kellie have both survived weaker performances so the question is should a one off night decide the result? Is Strictly a league competition or a cup final... or both? I guess the public decide in the end.

I think it is a bit of both - week to week it is a knockout competition during which time viewers decide on their favourite and eventual winner - so by the time of the final I think it is pretty much decided and when it is very close (ie Darren and Colin) the actual final will decide who the winner is. For me based on the series the winner could be any of the final 3 I enjoyed all of them - but have a leaning towards Kellie and Kevin but was not disappointed Jay and Aliona won at all

The main thing to watch for is the ladies left arm. If placed over the top of the man's right arm, it will be one of the other Ballroom dances, but for Tango, as well as the more compact hold, the lady's arm will be beneath the mans right arm completing the topline.

Actually my comments on the earlier thread were aimed, not so much at the hold, but the body posture. The posture must remain the same throughout, whether the lady is coming forward or dancing backwards. When the lady is dancing forwards in promenade postion, it is very easy to alter the posture and actually come forward, losing that posture. The lady must always maintain this, and more importantly maintain her poise and stay back behind the mans right hip.

In the clip shown, you can see some of the ( latin) lady Pro's losing their posture and poise in promenade position ( coming forward)

The. Opening Sequence lacked tango emotive feel or that essential drama associated with the tango

I would normally agree, but to that music...? Difficult. I think bearing all factors in mind, and the fact that she is a beginner, they pitched it about right.

Wishing all that read this thread a very Happy Christmas and New Year. Wishing you all the best for 2016.