|
||||||||
Ballroom and Latin American Dance Questions |
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#1101 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,056
|
Quote:
Wishing all that read this thread a very Happy Christmas and New Year. Wishing you all the best for 2016.
|
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#1102 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,439
|
Quote:
Thanks for the answers... Jennifer F - I liked your answer in the 'Clifton manipulation' thread about questionable hold from the professionals in a previous Tango routine from then; all I can say is it explains the confusion at times between the two.
I think it's because of that that Kellie's hold looked very much it was from the Waltz to me yesterday but apologies for that.In terms of the winner, I'd say Jay was the stronger dancer throughout the series though he didn't have a fantastic final. But both Georgia and Kellie have both survived weaker performances so the question is should a one off night decide the result? Is Strictly a league competition or a cup final... or both? I guess the public decide in the end. As for your questions about tango hold (which Jennifer has clearly answered) please please do not feel you need to at asking for something to be explained - that is what this thread of for. And a very nice thread it is too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1103 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,439
|
Quote:
Thanks Jennifer. The same to you and yours. Many appreciations to you, Ann, bendy and kaycee for providing reliable opinion on the ballroom dances. All being well I shall see you here next year.
![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#1104 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,185
|
yes Happy 'Christmas to you all and wishing everyone a wonderful New Year
|
|
|
|
|
#1105 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,203
|
Quote:
Thanks Jennifer. The same to you and yours. Many appreciations to you, Ann, bendy and kaycee for providing reliable opinion on the ballroom dances. All being well I shall see you here next year.
![]() Seconded. Sometimes this thread is the only sane place to be! Quote:
I think the thing about Strictly is for the majority of people it isn't about the technical side of dancing, it is about who gives them the most pleasure to watch. The judges have to judge the dance they see, and TBH I thought they had the scoreboard completely in the right order. But viewers are told to vote for their favourite which is something different.
BiB - my take on it exactly. It's why I loved Abbey, in spite of the fact that she was not technically the best (and Lord knows, we were told that often enough by her detractors!) - she was just terrific to watch. This year Georgia, in her Charleston particularly, did it for me. As Craig said, he just loved to watch her dance. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1106 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,021
|
Another great series ladies and gents. Hope everyone has a great christmas.
thanks to everyone who posted for making this thread so great. ![]() I agree with you, jennifer, that based on the final kellie and kevin were the most deserving. I wonder if their fred and ginger "wow" moment had come earlier in the series they might have had an easier time. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1107 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Giovanni's Bar
Posts: 845
|
Hello all - this is my first time on this particular thread.
I've been reading the posts about what constitutes a ballroom hold and a tango hold and unfortunately I'm one of those people who needs to see it rather than read it. So - sorry for repeating this question again - but in a slightly different way. Out of all of the couples on this year's series who had the best ballroom hold (and posture/positioning) and who had the best tango hold + posture/positioning during their tango?I ask it this way so can then go on YouTube and see for myself and know what to look out for when I watch in the future. Sorry for my rather dumbed down question.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1108 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,021
|
I'll let someone else answer properly, but in the meantime this post from bendymixer in the judges manipulation thread could be helpful. Quote:
nothing wrong with hold first pic from tango and world champs second kellie what was wrong with kellies ?? or is my training wrong ???
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i5...psni9czz5d.jpg http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i5...psyhvn5igc.jpg |
|
|
|
|
|
#1109 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Tango posture and hold explained www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw1hUpunZVo
Tango demonstrated www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-E5OSvlp6ci I can't find a short simple video that describes the posture for the other dances but this has some nice demos as well as a section about poise at the beginming. It's long and detailed though. http://Www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...&v=SXGJQedn4tM |
|
|
|
|
|
#1110 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 795
|
Quote:
Tango posture and hold explained www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw1hUpunZVo
Tango demonstrated www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-E5OSvlp6ci I can't find a short simple video that describes the posture for the other dances but this has some nice demos as well as a section about poise at the beginming. It's long and detailed though. http://Www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...&v=SXGJQedn4tM Missing in the K and K final offering in the final Merry Christmas all |
|
|
|
|
#1111 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Yes, Merry Christmas everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1112 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 19
|
Quote:
I thought the contact was really good. I only saw them lose contact momentarily on a promenade. There are no rules that say the bodies of a couple MUST be in contact all of the dance (especially when in fast flight where you may lose some contact as a trade off). However, it is generally accepted that it improves movement, synchronisation and posture if you are in close contact most of the time. Regarding your last sentence, this thread is raised to discuss specific details of ballroom technique, and to keep away from emotive comment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1113 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In sunny (hah!) Yorkshire
Posts: 13,940
|
Quote:
It isn't the first time the best dancers have missed out, and it is unlikely to be the last.
Dance is so subjective they couldn't possibly have a public vote at all if they were basing in on who did it best because only one of the judges' has a background in Ballroom and Latin competition to be able to "tell" the public what they "should" be voting on/looking for - like they used to do in the early series' of SCD, the competitors aren't starting from a level playing field - i.e. males competing against females, people of different basic abilities etc. I've reviewed professional dance during my career, so I think I have a fairly reasonable level of technical knowledge to make a decision but that still doesn't stop me from being emotionally involved in an utterly irrational way. As I said elsewhere, my head thinks Jay's been possibly the most technically gifted celebrity the show's had, my heart says he absolutely captivates me when he dances and my cannot explain it at all bit is emotionally effected the second he steps foot on the floor and begins to dance whether it's technically perfect or a wow factor performance. I have friends who are/have been professional dancers in both Ballroom/Latin and in other genres and their views were as many and varied as these forums as to whether the right couple won or not ![]() And a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all
|
|
|
|
|
#1114 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
|
[quote=Everlong Girl;80827700.
So - sorry for repeating this question again - but in a slightly different way. Out of all of the couples on this year's series who had the best ballroom hold (and posture/positioning) and who had the best tango hold + posture/positioning during their tango?I ask it this way so can then go on YouTube and see for myself and know what to look out for when I watch in the future. Sorry for my rather dumbed down question. [/QUOTE]I would recommend that you go on youtube and watch top Pro;s rather than look at the SCD celebs, as you will see straight away what it should look like. If you look at couples such as Mirko Gozzoli/Alessia Betti - Arunas Bizokas/Katusha Demidova- Valeri Colantoni/Monica Nigro - Domen Krapez/Natascha Karabey.... Absolutely fabulous dancers, if you have time, watch other dances too, not just the Tango and you will see how the styles and characteristics of each dance are so different. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1115 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Quote:
Thanks. Sorry, I wasn't meaning to be emotive, just prefer a more traditional vw and even the judges found the boom shake the room thing bizarre.
. Actually I do accept your point about the choreography. In ballroom, I do prefer it to be elegant and flowing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1116 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
|
Quote:
I would recommend that you go on youtube and watch top Pro;s rather than look at the SCD celebs, as you will see straight away what it should look like.
If you look at couples such as Mirko Gozzoli/Alessia Betti - Arunas Bizokas/Katusha Demidova- Valeri Colantoni/Monica Nigro - Domen Krapez/Natascha Karabey.... Absolutely fabulous dancers, if you have time, watch other dances too, not just the Tango and you will see how the styles and characteristics of each dance are so different. is Jo Clifton and Paulo Bosco. Seeing is believing !
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1117 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 72
|
Quote:
In an ideal world, there should be no gapping in any ballroom dance, but the reality is that it does happen, and at the highest level too. Non dancers have no idea how difficult it is to keep connection throughout the dance, and of course it is something that you learn over time. It is the job of the lady to "fill the gap" mostly as her body weight should be travelling forward to her partner even though she is ( normally) travelling backwards.
Thanks Jennifer, that's very interesting, not least because it presents a counter view to what we viewers are regularly fed about the male celebs having the hardest time because they have to lead, and the implication of that therefore being that the female celebs have it relatively easy! I also remember someone (may have been you, can't remember now), saying that on Strictly, the pieces are choreographed and each couple has the floor to themselves, and as a result, the male celeb doesn't actually have to lead the female pro. I'm therefore inclined to think the female celebs do not have it any easier than the male celebs at all. Like some others here, I thought Kellie did extremely well. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1118 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,056
|
Dear latin and ballroom dancers, I have another question before Christmas ...
![]() What's the difference between a world champion title in the ballroom world and an international open title? |
|
|
|
|
|
#1119 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
|
Quote:
Dear latin and ballroom dancers, I have another question before Christmas ...
![]() What's the difference between a world champion title in the ballroom world and an international open title? |
|
|
|
|
|
#1120 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,056
|
Quote:
They are just different competitions Maggie, though both top notch. Just like an athlete can be an Olympic medallist and a European Champion for example....both top events, just different events / competitions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1121 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
|
Quote:
Many thanks JenniferF. You're so good at replying to queries. An excellent thread host.
![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#1122 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
|
Quote:
(My bold)
Thanks Jennifer, that's very interesting, not least because it presents a counter view to what we viewers are regularly fed about the male celebs having the hardest time because they have to lead, and the implication of that therefore being that the female celebs have it relatively easy! I also remember someone (may have been you, can't remember now), saying that on Strictly, the pieces are choreographed and each couple has the floor to themselves, and as a result, the male celeb doesn't actually have to lead the female pro. I'm therefore inclined to think the female celebs do not have it any easier than the male celebs at all. Like some others here, I thought Kellie did extremely well. Firstly not taking anything away from the hard work that the lady celebs have put in, they simply would not have the skill of knowing how to follow. The lead is not just the man pushing/pulling or steering. It is far more subtle than that. Its two bodies dancing as one, as lady, you are in tune with what your partner is "telling" you to do through body connection. The man leads through his body but through his back, with the ladies weight coming forward by relaxing through her legs and knees, there is a resistance or light pressure. The lady will always have the feel that her weight is coming forward even though she is dancing backwards, to keep this light pressure, without this you cannot really monitor as well. An exercise that we often use in our practice is to dance with a CD or Tea towel between us, and it should not drop no matter what you are dancing. The man will dance groups with correct alignment through feet and body, the lady will instinctively know - if this is lead correctly - what groups the man is dancing. This is something that you really learn over time. I remember one particular Championships at Blackpool and there were so many couples on the floor, we could not dance what we had planned, my partner just had to look for the spaces on the floor to dance. He made up the whole routine as he went along and I just had to relax and follow. There is no doubt that the lady celebs have it easier to look good. They still have to learn the steps etc, but they are dancing with a Pro who will have a good frame from which to dance. The male celeb will also have to learn how to hold a good frame ( rarely they do as it takes a long time to master) and look as though he is leading. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1123 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 795
|
Quote:
Hi - yes it probably was me !
Firstly not taking anything away from the hard work that the lady celebs have put in, they simply would not have the skill of knowing how to follow. The lead is not just the man pushing/pulling or steering. It is far more subtle than that. Its two bodies dancing as one, as lady, you are in tune with what your partner is "telling" you to do through body connection. The man leads through his body but through his back, with the ladies weight coming forward by relaxing through her legs and knees, there is a resistance or light pressure. The lady will always have the feel that her weight is coming forward even though she is dancing backwards, to keep this light pressure, without this you cannot really monitor as well. An exercise that we often use in our practice is to dance with a CD or Tea towel between us, and it should not drop no matter what you are dancing. The man will dance groups with correct alignment through feet and body, the lady will instinctively know - if this is lead correctly - what groups the man is dancing. This is something that you really learn over time. I remember one particular Championships at Blackpool and there were so many couples on the floor, we could not dance what we had planned, my partner just had to look for the spaces on the floor to dance. He made up the whole routine as he went along and I just had to relax and follow. There is no doubt that the lady celebs have it easier to look good. They still have to learn the steps etc, but they are dancing with a Pro who will have a good frame from which to dance. The male celeb will also have to learn how to hold a good frame ( rarely they do as it takes a long time to master) and look as though he is leading. The male lead gets his top with relaxed shoulder line and diaphragm/hand pressure And secondly Jay did lead on his own on the floor and when they all danced together Jay has a :top: that many dancers struggle to achieve over a protracted period of lessons and practise |
|
|
|
|
#1124 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
|
Quote:
Obvious agreement but would add two issues
The male lead gets his top with relaxed shoulder line and diaphragm/hand pressure And secondly Jay did lead on his own on the floor and when they all danced together Jay has a :top: that many dancers struggle to achieve over a protracted period of lessons and practise As you dance, you will be aware that all teachers methods of training will differ slightly and as such, opinions and views will slightly differ as it seems, ours do. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1125 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
I agree that approach to lead and follow can be variable. When my dance teacher changed his partner and coach, I found his approach to teaching me completely changed. This was due to the fact that his female coach (a very well known dancer) and new partner were a lot more powerful in their style of dancing. I suddenly found I had to take a lot more responsbility in the partnership.
|
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 06:35.




I think it's because of that that Kellie's hold looked very much it was from the Waltz to me yesterday but apologies for that.
thanks to everyone who posted for making this thread so great. 