Thanks Jennifer. The same to you and yours. Many appreciations to you, Ann, bendy and kaycee for providing reliable opinion on the ballroom dances. All being well I shall see you here next year.

I think the thing about Strictly is for the majority of people it isn't about the technical side of dancing, it is about who gives them the most pleasure to watch. The judges have to judge the dance they see, and TBH I thought they had the scoreboard completely in the right order. But viewers are told to vote for their favourite which is something different. Jay was the only one never the have been in the DO, despite a few dodgy dances, and if some of the DS threads are to be believed Kevin and Kellie were far from popular. So where only the viewers votes count, Jay was the winner. It isn't the first time the best dancers have missed out, and it is unlikely to be the last.

As for your questions about tango hold (which Jennifer has clearly answered) please please do not feel you need to at asking for something to be explained - that is what this thread of for. And a very nice thread it is too!

Many thanks, Maggie. Have a great Christmas.

yes Happy 'Christmas to you all and wishing everyone a wonderful New Year

Seconded. Sometimes this thread is the only sane place to be!




BiB - my take on it exactly. It's why I loved Abbey, in spite of the fact that she was not technically the best (and Lord knows, we were told that often enough by her detractors!) - she was just terrific to watch.
This year Georgia, in her Charleston particularly, did it for me. As Craig said, he just loved to watch her dance.

Another great series ladies and gents. Hope everyone has a great christmas. thanks to everyone who posted for making this thread so great.

I agree with you, jennifer, that based on the final kellie and kevin were the most deserving. I wonder if their fred and ginger "wow" moment had come earlier in the series they might have had an easier time.

Hello all - this is my first time on this particular thread.

I've been reading the posts about what constitutes a ballroom hold and a tango hold and unfortunately I'm one of those people who needs to see it rather than read it.

So - sorry for repeating this question again - but in a slightly different way. Out of all of the couples on this year's series who had the best ballroom hold (and posture/positioning) and who had the best tango hold + posture/positioning during their tango?

I ask it this way so can then go on YouTube and see for myself and know what to look out for when I watch in the future.

Sorry for my rather dumbed down question.

I'll let someone else answer properly, but in the meantime this post from bendymixer in the judges manipulation thread could be helpful.

Tango posture and hold explained www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw1hUpunZVo
Tango demonstrated www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-E5OSvlp6ci


I can't find a short simple video that describes the posture for the other dances but this has some nice demos as well as a section about poise at the beginming. It's long and detailed though. http://Www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL...&v=SXGJQedn4tM

Both samples also demonstrate the drama in movement and attitude of the dancers

Missing in the K and K final offering in the final

Merry Christmas all

Yes, Merry Christmas everyone!

Thanks. Sorry, I wasn't meaning to be emotive, just prefer a more traditional vw and even the judges found the boom shake the room thing bizarre.

I don't think Kellie was the best dancer throughout the series and as the public are told to vote for their favourites, it's no great surprise when they do that in the final imo.

Dance is so subjective they couldn't possibly have a public vote at all if they were basing in on who did it best because only one of the judges' has a background in Ballroom and Latin competition to be able to "tell" the public what they "should" be voting on/looking for - like they used to do in the early series' of SCD, the competitors aren't starting from a level playing field - i.e. males competing against females, people of different basic abilities etc.

I've reviewed professional dance during my career, so I think I have a fairly reasonable level of technical knowledge to make a decision but that still doesn't stop me from being emotionally involved in an utterly irrational way.

As I said elsewhere, my head thinks Jay's been possibly the most technically gifted celebrity the show's had, my heart says he absolutely captivates me when he dances and my cannot explain it at all bit is emotionally effected the second he steps foot on the floor and begins to dance whether it's technically perfect or a wow factor performance.

I have friends who are/have been professional dancers in both Ballroom/Latin and in other genres and their views were as many and varied as these forums as to whether the right couple won or not

And a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all

[quote=Everlong Girl;80827700.

So - sorry for repeating this question again - but in a slightly different way. Out of all of the couples on this year's series who had the best ballroom hold (and posture/positioning) and who had the best tango hold + posture/positioning during their tango?

I ask it this way so can then go on YouTube and see for myself and know what to look out for when I watch in the future.

Sorry for my rather dumbed down question.[/QUOTE]

I would recommend that you go on youtube and watch top Pro;s rather than look at the SCD celebs, as you will see straight away what it should look like.
If you look at couples such as Mirko Gozzoli/Alessia Betti - Arunas Bizokas/Katusha Demidova- Valeri Colantoni/Monica Nigro - Domen Krapez/Natascha Karabey....
Absolutely fabulous dancers, if you have time, watch other dances too, not just the Tango and you will see how the styles and characteristics of each dance are so different.

No problem. I think I was being a bit too school marmy there. . Actually I do accept your point about the choreography. In ballroom, I do prefer it to be elegant and flowing.

Of course, the most obvious one that I have missed is Jo Clifton and Paulo Bosco. Seeing is believing !

(My bold)

Thanks Jennifer, that's very interesting, not least because it presents a counter view to what we viewers are regularly fed about the male celebs having the hardest time because they have to lead, and the implication of that therefore being that the female celebs have it relatively easy!

I also remember someone (may have been you, can't remember now), saying that on Strictly, the pieces are choreographed and each couple has the floor to themselves, and as a result, the male celeb doesn't actually have to lead the female pro.

I'm therefore inclined to think the female celebs do not have it any easier than the male celebs at all. Like some others here, I thought Kellie did extremely well.

Dear latin and ballroom dancers, I have another question before Christmas ...

What's the difference between a world champion title in the ballroom world and an international open title?

They are just different competitions Maggie, though both top notch. Just like an athlete can be an Olympic medallist and a European Champion for example....both top events, just different events / competitions.

Many thanks JenniferF. You're so good at replying to queries. An excellent thread host.

Thank you !

Hi - yes it probably was me !
Firstly not taking anything away from the hard work that the lady celebs have put in, they simply would not have the skill of knowing how to follow. The lead is not just the man pushing/pulling or steering. It is far more subtle than that. Its two bodies dancing as one, as lady, you are in tune with what your partner is "telling" you to do through body connection.

The man leads through his body but through his back, with the ladies weight coming forward by relaxing through her legs and knees, there is a resistance or light pressure.
The lady will always have the feel that her weight is coming forward even though she is dancing backwards, to keep this light pressure, without this you cannot really monitor as well. An exercise that we often use in our practice is to dance with a CD or Tea towel between us, and it should not drop no matter what you are dancing.

The man will dance groups with correct alignment through feet and body, the lady will instinctively know - if this is lead correctly - what groups the man is dancing. This is something that you really learn over time. I remember one particular Championships at Blackpool and there were so many couples on the floor, we could not dance what we had planned, my partner just had to look for the spaces on the floor to dance. He made up the whole routine as he went along and I just had to relax and follow.

There is no doubt that the lady celebs have it easier to look good. They still have to learn the steps etc, but they are dancing with a Pro who will have a good frame from which to dance. The male celeb will also have to learn how to hold a good frame ( rarely they do as it takes a long time to master) and look as though he is leading.

Obvious agreement but would add two issues
The male lead gets his top with relaxed shoulder line and diaphragm/hand pressure

And secondly Jay did lead on his own on the floor and when they all danced together

Jay has a :top: that many dancers struggle to achieve over a protracted period of lessons and practise

Obviously my comments are in their very basic sense, no point in going into too much detail here as most would not understand. My teachers for example teach 15 points of connection between the couples, pick up and projection is of paramount importance as is the volume between the couples heads and the volume and fullness of movement they create. Dancers have to have very strong back muscles to hold the backline and frame in place. There is a very precise way in which you connect the connecting hands and thumb placing. It is very involved as you are aware of course.
As you dance, you will be aware that all teachers methods of training will differ slightly and as such, opinions and views will slightly differ as it seems, ours do.

I agree that approach to lead and follow can be variable. When my dance teacher changed his partner and coach, I found his approach to teaching me completely changed. This was due to the fact that his female coach (a very well known dancer) and new partner were a lot more powerful in their style of dancing. I suddenly found I had to take a lot more responsbility in the partnership.