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Old 30-10-2016, 11:26
Ann_Dancer
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I don't think there is enough height diffierence to affect the aesthetics. To be honest, I suspect it can be helpful for an inexperienced lead if the follower is slightly taller. There is more leeway on leg space for the lead, especially when dancing difficult in line figures such as the three step. I certainly have no problem with height difference when dancing the lead with my teacher.

(I do dance the lead in my ballroom shoes. I wouldn't be able to change back and forth during an exam. I don't have a big heel on my shoes. Had never considered wearing complete flats. Interesting.........)
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Old 30-10-2016, 11:35
Jennifer_F
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I don't think there is enough height diffierence to affect the aesthetics. To be honest, I suspect it can be helpful for an inexperienced lead if the follower is slightly taller. There is more leeway on leg space for the lead, especially when dancing difficult in line figures such as the three step. I certainly have no problem with height difference when dancing the lead with my teacher.

(I do dance the lead in my ballroom shoes. I wouldn't be able to change back and forth during an exam. I don't have a big heel on my shoes. Had never considered wearing complete flats. Interesting.........)
Hi Ann, I just don't like heels on mens ballroom shoes, to me it just doesn't look right. Personal choice maybe, but I also am not in favour of the suede shoes that are worn too. There is nothing that completes the look of the well groomed male dancer in tails, than an immaculate shiny pair of ballroom shoes ( minus big heel!)

When you dance lead in ballroom, do you wear low heeled ballroom shoes or teacher training shoes ?

Incidentally I never wear high heels for dancing ballroom ( do for latin)m lower heels are better for a better, softer foot action. You are better balanced also IMO.
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Old 30-10-2016, 11:45
Ann_Dancer
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I wear 2 inch ballroom courts, but because I have to do a lot of slo mo demonstrations I have some shoes with a spanish heel instead of the flared heel on my other ballroom shoes (which are also 2 inch).

But I did consider wearing practice shoes. My dance teacher was not keen on that. Thought it looked more professional in proper courts.
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Old 30-10-2016, 11:48
Jennifer_F
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I wear 2 inch ballroom courts, but because I have to do a lot of slo mo demonstrations I have some shoes with a spanish heel instead of the flared heel on my other shoes.

But I did consider wearing practice shoes. My dance teacher was not keen on that. Thought it looked more professional in proper courts.
Yes I am in agreement, proper courts would look best.

I wear 2" also, have worn 2.5" , but prefer the 2". A lot, if not most, of the top Pro ladies wear smaller heels, so we do all have "something" in common!
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Old 30-10-2016, 12:33
Ann_Dancer
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Yes, I see some of the shoe heels on Strictly and think !
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Old 30-10-2016, 12:39
Jennifer_F
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Yes, I see some of the shoe heels on Strictly and think !
Yes, me too. Yikes. I can almost hear those heels clumping down now, instead of purring lightly across the floor
I think they probably think its more elegant to wear a high heel, which of course it is, but not for dancing, if you have a choice. Possibly lady celebs would feel they look frumpy in lower heels, but its not a night out clubbing, you have to be on your own balance and be in perfect control over what you do.
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Old 30-10-2016, 12:45
Toasted Toad
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Yes, me too. Yikes. I can almost hear those heels clumping down now, instead of purring lightly across the floor
I think they probably think its more elegant to wear a high heel, which of course it is, but not for dancing, if you have a choice. Possibly lady celebs would feel they look frumpy in lower heels, but its not a night out clubbing, you have to be on your own balance and be in perfect control over what you do.
I find those heel turns that Len likes so much look rather ugly in those really high heels. They emphasize a really unnatural look. I see the celebs raising their toes quite a long way off the ground in those turns. Is this usual? Is it to draw attention to the move? Or is it usually more subtle?
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Old 30-10-2016, 12:48
kaycee
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I find those heel turns that Len likes so much look rather ugly in those really high heels. They emphasize a really unnatural look. I see the celebs raising their toes quite a long way off the ground in those turns. Is this usual? Is it to draw attention to the move? Or is it usually more subtle?
That's 'cos the celebs don't dance them properly. It should be subtle, but to be fair, it can be quite difficult to learn in a short time, and beginners do tend to over exaggerate raising their toes. It's better than not raising them at all, because then they wouldn't be heel turns - which are actually quite beautiful when done properly.
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Old 30-10-2016, 12:52
kaycee
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Yes I am in agreement, proper courts would look best.

I wear 2" also, have worn 2.5" , but prefer the 2". A lot, if not most, of the top Pro ladies wear smaller heels, so we do all have "something" in common!
I too wear 2" heels, both for BB and Latin, although I have sometimes worn 2.5" for Latin. I have quite small feet - I take 2.5 'normal' shoes, and if I wear anything higher than 2" I'm virtually tipped onto my toes!
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Old 30-10-2016, 12:54
Jennifer_F
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That's 'cos the celebs don't dance them properly. It should be subtle, but to be fair, it can be quite difficult to learn in a short time, and beginners do tend to over exaggerate raising their toes. It's better than not raising them at all, because then they wouldn't be heel turns - which are actually quite beautiful when done properly.
Yes, you are correct of course Kaycee, toes should not lift at all, but they all do it and its never mentioned. So anyone, that does not know, watches, they think its correct and the norm. Years ago I was taught the old fashioned way ( probably as set out in the technique book) where the lady steps back on R, draws in L, then turns, but these days we dance it quite differently but still just as beautiful, just more dynamic
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Old 30-10-2016, 12:56
Jennifer_F
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I too wear 2" heels, both for BB and Latin, although I have sometimes worn 2.5" for Latin. I have quite small feet - I take 2.5 'normal' shoes, and if I wear anything higher than 2" I'm virtually tipped onto my toes!
Oh yes I see that could be a problem ! I wear 2.5 or 3 for latin, but I don't have small feet
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Old 30-10-2016, 14:40
bendymixer
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Hi girls - hope you are all well, have been enjoying reading the thread (mainly late at night) have had a busy few weeks but hopefully things will be a bit less busy and I will be around more - keep up the good work with your posts round the forum )
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Old 30-10-2016, 15:18
Jennifer_F
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Hi girls - hope you are all well, have been enjoying reading the thread (mainly late at night) have had a busy few weeks but hopefully things will be a bit less busy and I will be around more - keep up the good work with your posts round the forum )
Thanks Bendy - nice to read your contributions too !
What did you think of the outfits that poor Jo and Ore wore, or should I say endure ? Appalling. Poor Jo , they could not have made her wear a more unflattering dress. Hideous. I really enjoyed the dance, but was overcome by the costuming etc.
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Old 30-10-2016, 15:20
Cadiva
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I'm so glad someone else has mentioned the heel height, I've often felt the female celebrities are given shoes that have too high a heel and it detracts from their efforts.

I seem to remember one year Len advising the cleb (maybe Letitia Dean?) to get a shoe with a smaller heel as it would help her stopping tipping forward and she did and it made a huge difference.

When I danced it was mostly ballet, tap and contemporary but when I did dance in a heeled shoe, it was never higher than a 2in heel.
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Old 30-10-2016, 16:00
bendymixer
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Thanks Bendy - nice to read your contributions too !
What did you think of the outfits that poor Jo and Ore wore, or should I say endure ? Appalling. Poor Jo , they could not have made her wear a more unflattering dress. Hideous. I really enjoyed the dance, but was overcome by the costuming etc.
Jo and Ore's outfits look like Vicky Gill forgot about them, remembered so quickly picked up a few bits off the cutting room floor and velcroed them together

In mid week on the training videos thought both of the charlestons looked great - and I thought they would be wow - the music and costumes for both killed it - so unfair no charleston in the music at all. I also thought Claudia doing a foxtrot AS so soon after her foxtrot was a bit odd Ian Waite tried to say so too but Zoe poo pooed him but he said he thought it a little strange as they effectively have 2 weeks at one dance - on looking at the routine again see what he means. Felt sorry for Danny and his mistake too
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Old 30-10-2016, 17:05
Toasted Toad
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Jo and Ore's outfits look like Vicky Gill forgot about them, remembered so quickly picked up a few bits off the cutting room floor and velcroed them together

In mid week on the training videos thought both of the charlestons looked great - and I thought they would be wow - the music and costumes for both killed it - so unfair no charleston in the music at all. I also thought Claudia doing a foxtrot AS so soon after her foxtrot was a bit odd Ian Waite tried to say so too but Zoe poo pooed him but he said he thought it a little strange as they effectively have 2 weeks at one dance - on looking at the routine again see what he means. Felt sorry for Danny and his mistake too
I dunno - Louise is still not letting go, and I didn't see her doing that in the training vid either. She seemed to think that smiling and perhaps making some faces was sufficient. Jo seemed to revert to standard Clifton settings this week.

Appreciate people who are answering my technique questions - it's been extremely interesting. I have another one if anyone is not completely bored by my bombardment!

The fleckerl (sp?) - does it have a purpose other than to please Len? Is it to make it easier to turn on the spot (i.e. without travelling)? Is it to make the turn smoother or faster? Or is it entirely stylistic?
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Old 30-10-2016, 17:09
Ann_Dancer
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Hi bendy. Nice to see your contributions too.

Kaycee, I can't believe your shoe size!

I'm so glad someone else has mentioned the heel height, I've often felt the female celebrities are given shoes that have too high a heel and it detracts from their efforts.

I seem to remember one year Len advising the cleb (maybe Letitia Dean?) to get a shoe with a smaller heel as it would help her stopping tipping forward and she did and it made a huge difference.

When I danced it was mostly ballet, tap and contemporary but when I did dance in a heeled shoe, it was never higher than a 2in heel.
Yes, I seem to remember Len remarking to at least one of the celebs.
Dress codes can be bizarre. The lead has to be weighted further forward than the follower when dancing forward or backward in the foxtrot. The footwork is designed to reflect that (e.g. Feather and 3 Step follower footwork compared to Extended Reverse Wave lead footwork) but the shoes (flatties for man, heels for woman) work against it.
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Old 30-10-2016, 17:36
Jennifer_F
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I dunno - Louise is still not letting go, and I didn't see her doing that in the training vid either. She seemed to think that smiling and perhaps making some faces was sufficient. Jo seemed to revert to standard Clifton settings this week.

Appreciate people who are answering my technique questions - it's been extremely interesting. I have another one if anyone is not completely bored by my bombardment!

The fleckerl (sp?) - does it have a purpose other than to please Len? Is it to make it easier to turn on the spot (i.e. without travelling)? Is it to make the turn smoother or faster? Or is it entirely stylistic?
There are only a few basic variations in VW...natural turns, reverse turns, forward change , backward change and the Fleckerl.

It takes quite a while to master the Fleckerl for many reasons, the footwork is very specific and precise for one. You have reverse Fleckerl, followed by contra check then natural fleckerl, so basically you are dancing one way into a very quick contra check then straight into the natural fleckerls. The footwork for the natural flekerls is also dfferent from the reverse ones.

I very much doubt the viewers have seen a proper Fleckerl on SCD unless it was danced by Jo or Natalie.
It is very fast and aside from the precise footwork, the dancers are moving around each other, the speed will produce almost a feel of centrifugal force so the dancers have to be well practised so as to not let this affect their posture or poise.
Most of the SCD dancers dance an awful poor resemblance to a standing spin with incorrect footwork, but it seems to be a crowd pleaser nonetheless.

I;ve put it very simply but hope you get the idea.
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Old 30-10-2016, 18:10
Toasted Toad
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There are only a few basic variations in VW...natural turns, reverse turns, forward change , backward change and the Fleckerl.

It takes quite a while to master the Fleckerl for many reasons, the footwork is very specific and precise for one. You have reverse Fleckerl, followed by contra check then natural fleckerl, so basically you are dancing one way into a very quick contra check then straight into the natural fleckerls. The footwork for the natural flekerls is also dfferent from the reverse ones.

I very much doubt the viewers have seen a proper Fleckerl on SCD unless it was danced by Jo or Natalie.
It is very fast and aside from the precise footwork, the dancers are moving around each other, the speed will produce almost a feel of centrifugal force so the dancers have to be well practised so as to not let this affect their posture or poise.
Most of the SCD dancers dance an awful poor resemblance to a standing spin with incorrect footwork, but it seems to be a crowd pleaser nonetheless.

I;ve put it very simply but hope you get the idea.
That's what I need - baby talk!

But what is the difference achieved by a fleckerl as opposed to what you call a standing spin (which is I presume just tippy toeing around)? Is it to enable the faster speed? That's what I'm trying to get at - not in this case, what constitutes correct execution, but the purpose of doing the footwork that way rather in the first place. I have tended to feel that there is a reason for using the feet in this way - i.e. that it achieves something for rotation purpose, not just one foot in front of the other then behind the other just for the sake of it.
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Old 30-10-2016, 18:35
Jennifer_F
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That's what I need - baby talk!

But what is the difference achieved by a fleckerl as opposed to what you call a standing spin (which is I presume just tippy toeing around)? Is it to enable the faster speed? That's what I'm trying to get at - not in this case, what constitutes correct execution, but the purpose of doing the footwork that way rather in the first place. I have tended to feel that there is a reason for using the feet in this way - i.e. that it achieves something for rotation purpose, not just one foot in front of the other then behind the other just for the sake of it.
To be honest I don't know why the footwork is what it is for the Fleckerl, I just know this is the way it is and the standing spin used in other dances is different. You can use the standing spin in other dances if you wish but the Fleckerl is only danced in VW.

In competitive dancing, you would not be allowed - or it would be frowned upon - to dance a standing spin in VW. You just would not get any marks into the next round.

The speed of the rotation in VW is faster than the standing spin as you are not just putting one foot in front of the other, then behind as you swivel on certain steps too.

I guess I don't actually know the answer to your questions, or if there is an answer.....the footwork is very precise for other variations, reverse wave in Fox for example. The order of the heels and toes has to be exactly right.
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Old 30-10-2016, 19:41
MaggieMcGee
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Good evening dancers and other interested parties. Watching the Len's lens section and Len's critique of Claudia's footwork showed her achieving good steps, placements and heel leads and turns.

Wondered what any of you had observed and thought.
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Old 30-10-2016, 20:03
Ms Babs
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I noticed a conversation above about shoes which reminded me of something that runs through my mind most Saturday nights.

In the early years of strictly, the female celebs had one pair of ballroom and one pair of Latin shoes. Now I know budgets have increased since then but often the female celebs seem to be in different shoes each week. Understand that they may have a need for example in the charleston but I would have thought that they would need to wear a pair of shoes "in" and then stick with them otherwise it could cause damage in the form of blisters etc . Also an added difficulty in learning the dance each week.
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Old 30-10-2016, 20:10
Jennifer_F
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Good evening dancers and other interested parties. Watching the Len's lens section and Len's critique of Claudia's footwork showed her achieving good steps, placements and heel leads and turns.

Wondered what any of you had observed and thought.
Contrary to what a lot of posters on the forum think, AJ has done super job in teaching Claudia. To be honest she has been fortunate in having Fox last week and a Foxtrot based AS this week. Effectively this means that she has had a couple of weeks to improve her footwork etc.
I would have liked more movement, it was rather steppy, should be swinging through the groups. She does have a nice topline
Having said that, I think she danced very nicely yesterday , good footwork for a beginner, although she spent a little too much time in the air in my opinion. Great routine overall though, well done both.
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Old 30-10-2016, 20:14
Jennifer_F
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I noticed a conversation above about shoes which reminded me of something that runs through my mind most Saturday nights.

In the early years of strictly, the female celebs had one pair of ballroom and one pair of Latin shoes. Now I know budgets have increased since then but often the female celebs seem to be in different shoes each week. Understand that they may have a need for example in the charleston but I would have thought that they would need to wear a pair of shoes "in" and then stick with them otherwise it could cause damage in the form of blisters etc . Also an added difficulty in learning the dance each week.
The fit of the shoes will vary from brand to brand, but I have never ever had to wear in shoes. Get the right brand for you and the shoe will fit fine. Everyone will be different of course. However most shoes are comfortable these days.
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Old 30-10-2016, 20:15
MaggieMcGee
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Contrary to what a lot of posters on the forum think, AJ has done super job in teaching Claudia. To be honest she has been fortunate in having Fox last week and a Foxtrot based AS this week. Effectively this means that she has had a couple of weeks to improve her footwork etc.
I would have liked more movement, it was rather steppy, should be swinging through the groups. She does have a nice topline
Having said that, I think she danced very nicely yesterday , good footwork for a beginner, although she spent a little too much time in the air in my opinion. Great routine overall though, well done both.
Thanks Jennifer. I think AJ's doing a good job, especially with awful music, and I like him a lot. It's hard to speculate perhaps but I wonder how much her gymnastics training inhibits fluidity and the 'swinging through' that you mention.
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