|
||||||||
Ballroom and Latin American Dance Questions |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#1276 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,525
|
Quote:
Thanks Jennifer. I think AJ's doing a good job, especially with awful music, and I like him a lot. It's hard to speculate perhaps but I wonder how much her gymnastics training inhibits fluidity and the 'swinging through' that you mention.
|
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#1277 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,056
|
Quote:
I personally don't feel that her gymnastics inhibits anything, just its a difficult skill that is hard to master. We all spend a lot of money and spend hours ( and years) working at this sort of thing. I would not expect beginners to be able to do this, I just mention it to advise that there is room to improve further. Lady going backwards for example, should always release toes, keep knees soft and flexed, will help with a softer movement and rolling through feet. They all dance a little fast, but to be expected at the level we are watching. Needs more emphasis on slows in Fox, but again these are very hard to control, hence Pros putting in a lot of quicks.
What does it mean to release toes? Is this to shift weight onto heels? Also, what are slows and quicks? I have an intuition as to what this might mean in terms of music tempo but not how this translates into the dance. Interesting that you don't think gymnastics hinders. I felt the judges suggested it did during Claudia's early weeks. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1278 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Quote:
Contrary to what a lot of posters on the forum think, AJ has done super job in teaching Claudia. To be honest she has been fortunate in having Fox last week and a Foxtrot based AS this week. Effectively this means that she has had a couple of weeks to improve her footwork etc.
I would have liked more movement, it was rather steppy, should be swinging through the groups. She does have a nice topline Having said that, I think she danced very nicely yesterday , good footwork for a beginner, although she spent a little too much time in the air in my opinion. Great routinie overall though, well done both. She (and AJ) are doing well though.Because the ankle articulation isn't quite right, she's not getting the 'no foot rise.' |
|
|
|
|
|
#1279 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Quote:
The fit of the shoes will vary from brand to brand, but I have never ever had to wear in shoes. Get the right brand for you and the shoe will fit fine. Everyone will be different of course. However most shoes are comfortable these days.
By the way, any ideas for cleaning light flesh satin courts? |
|
|
|
|
|
#1280 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,525
|
Quote:
I like to wear in shoes a bit, but it doesn't take long to do that. 3 or so hours in practice should do. If I wear shoes too much before a comp they start to get dirty.
By the way, any ideas for cleaning light flesh satin courts? Luckily they don't get too grubby, but I make a weak lukewarm soapy solution and gently "stroke" the shoes with this on a clean dish cloth. Take care not to rub and just go the same way as the "grain" on the satin. Just let dry and they should be OK, I have never ruined a pair yet but maybe best to ask your teacher and see what he/she would suggest. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1281 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Quote:
This is like a foreign language to me so if you the patience ...
What does it mean to release toes? Is this to shift weight onto heels? Also, what are slows and quicks? I have an intuition as to what this might mean in terms of music tempo but not how this translates into the dance. Interesting that you don't think gymnastics hinders. I felt the judges suggested it did during Claudia's early weeks. FT is 4/4. (4 beats per bar). A slow is 2 beats, a quick is one beat. A feather is SQQ (4 beats in all). Some steps may be QQQQ and some QQS. Some are over one bar and some over 2 (e.g. Feather Finish SQQ SQQ) |
|
|
|
|
|
#1282 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Quote:
I always gently handwash mine !! I don't immerse them though.
Luckily they don't get too grubby, but I make a weak lukewarm soapy solution and gently "stroke" the shoes with this on a clean dish cloth. Take care not to rub and just go the same way as the "grain" on the satin. Just let dry and they should be OK, I have never ruined a pair yet but maybe best to ask your teacher and see what he/she would suggest. . I've done the same, but my IDS shoes are very light flesh and easily show the dirt, which can therefore be a bit difficult to remove.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1283 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,021
|
Quote:
I like to wear in shoes a bit, but it doesn't take long to do that. 3 or so hours in practice should do. If I wear shoes too much before a comp they start to get dirty.
By the way, any ideas for cleaning light flesh satin courts?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1284 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Quote:
If you're desperate and they look really bad, you can rub white bread on them and it lessens those grey/black marks that befall all my shoes. It won't make them look good as new but it can help you out a bit in a pinch.
![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#1285 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,056
|
Quote:
Backward walk: Left foot goes back, ball of foot in contact, then toe. Release toe of right foot. At extent of stride, lower onto ball of left foot. Start to drag right foot back, heel in contact. On passing left foot, heel of left foot lowers. Repeat as before but with right foot going back.
FT is 4/4. (4 beats per bar). A slow is 2 beats, a quick is one beat. A feather is SQQ (4 beats in all). Some steps may be QQQQ and some QQS. Some are over one bar and some over 2 I don't get the slow/quick beats or feather (?) at all Ann. I'm not musical/mathematical/language orientated so I'm quite dense. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1286 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Yes, it is very hard. No support from man. You should be able to dance it on your own.
Ok beats per bar. So a feather is SQQ. So there are three actual steps in the figure. All danced backwards for the lady. There are 4 beats per bar. So you would count 1, 2, 3, 4 over the bar Whilst you are counting 1 and 2 you would be dancing your first step. It is a slow because it takes the two beats to step the foot back. On 3 you would dance a quick step. On 4 you would dance a quick step. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1287 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,525
|
Quote:
I've had to try the backward walk to understand your description and that movement is hard. Does the woman gain any support from the man whilst executing it?
I don't get the slow/quick beats or feather (?) at all Ann. I'm not musical/mathematical/language orientated so I'm quite dense. The left arm of the lady placed on the mans arm carries no weight whatsoever either. Basically on a quick, you take a step for every quick. On a slow ( a count of 2 beats) you still just dance one step which is difficult as the body is swinging and moving continuously . If you are interested it would be good idea to google youtube and watch always difficult to explain |
|
|
|
|
|
#1288 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,056
|
Quote:
Yes, it is very hard. No support from man. You should be able to dance it on your own.
Ok beats per bar. So a feather is SQQ. So there are three actual steps in the figure. All danced backwards for the lady. There are 4 beats per bar. So you would count 1, 2, 3, 4 over the bar Whilst you are counting 1 and 2 you would be dancing your first step. It is a slow because it takes the two beats to step the foot back. On 3 you would dance a quick step. On 4 you would dance a quick step. Quote:
It is hard! - especially if you are trying to dance it properly, and NO the lady will not get any support from the man. The lady should
never ever get any support from the man, she is responsible for her own balance and movement. You need a strong core and centre to be a good dancer, The left arm of the lady placed on the mans arm carries no weight whatsoever either. Basically on a quick, you take a step for every quick. On a slow ( a count of 2 beats) you still just dance one step which is difficult as the body is swinging and moving continuously . If you are interested it would be good idea to google youtube and watch always difficult to explain |
|
|
|
|
|
#1289 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 123
|
Quote:
The fit of the shoes will vary from brand to brand, but I have never ever had to wear in shoes. Get the right brand for you and the shoe will fit fine. Everyone will be different of course. However most shoes are comfortable these days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1290 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 358
|
Quote:
I'm so glad someone else has mentioned the heel height, I've often felt the female celebrities are given shoes that have too high a heel and it detracts from their efforts.
I seem to remember one year Len advising the cleb (maybe Letitia Dean?) to get a shoe with a smaller heel as it would help her stopping tipping forward and she did and it made a huge difference. When I danced it was mostly ballet, tap and contemporary but when I did dance in a heeled shoe, it was never higher than a 2in heel. My ankles go all funny even thinking about jiving in heels, it's taken me a good few months to get confident and well balanced in chunky 2in heels even in slow dances in hold! As a lifetime wearer of flats with perhaps too flexible ankles, the heels have been one of the hardest things about learning dancing. I still refuse to do them in 'real life' if there's even the remote possibility I have to walk anywhere! |
|
|
|
|
|
#1291 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
|
Quote:
I like to wear in shoes a bit, but it doesn't take long to do that. 3 or so hours in practice should do. If I wear shoes too much before a comp they start to get dirty.
By the way, any ideas for cleaning light flesh satin courts? However witch hazel cleans them beautifully. It might work on uppers too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1292 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Quote:
I haven't used this on the uppers of my dance shoes but I do use witch hazel to clean and freshen up the insoles. I just dampen a cotton ball with witch hazel and give the insides of my shoes a good wipe around. If you wear tights this probabaly isn't necessary but I dance barelegged/footed so my shoes get a build up of ...well lets not go into the detail because it sounds horrible.
However witch hazel cleans them beautifully. It might work on uppers too. and so this might be useful in 2 ways.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1293 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,283
|
Quote:
I thought Anatascia might've had an easier time in the jive with lower heels, flats or even a chunkier heel, she might've been able to get more speed, bounce and go for it a bit more.
My ankles go all funny even thinking about jiving in heels, it's taken me a good few months to get confident and well balanced in chunky 2in heels even in slow dances in hold! As a lifetime wearer of flats with perhaps too flexible ankles, the heels have been one of the hardest things about learning dancing. I still refuse to do them in 'real life' if there's even the remote possibility I have to walk anywhere! For me, there's nothing more wonderful than freestyling such as you can do in salsa. Partner dancing in its purest form. From what I understand, AT is the same, although I can't even imagine how they do it there, never having danced it myself (although AT is not dealt with on this thread). Do any of the ballroom dances lend themselves to 'freestyling' (although that would seem the wrong terminology for ballroom - perhaps non-choreographed?) I would have thought so, but people have spoken so much on this thread about the lady being completely independent of the man that I've been wondering how they can freestyle at all. If he does not lead via the body, how can he signal her at all other than by saying 'let's move over there', and 'let's do this step'? In salsa, I can see by the movement and direction of the body, by the tensing of certain muscles indicating that he is getting ready to support a dip, by the feel of his arms and hands when indicating he wants to spin in a certain direction. Or are you talking about two completely different contexts (i.e. social and competition)? |
|
|
|
|
|
#1294 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Gormenghast Castle
Posts: 2,233
|
Quote:
If you're desperate and they look really bad, you can rub white bread on them and it lessens those grey/black marks that befall all my shoes. It won't make them look good as new but it can help you out a bit in a pinch.
![]()
|
|
|
|
|
|
#1295 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,525
|
Quote:
I'm not sure - she didn't appear to be even trying for the jive flick action. Not just getting it wrong, but not doing it at all. Having said that, Brenda looked pretty apathetic too. She picked her knees up more in the DO, at least at the beginning, but seemed to tire quite quickly. I don't know how anybody does the jive for more than a minute at a time. Looks so tiring!
For me, there's nothing more wonderful than freestyling such as you can do in salsa. Partner dancing in its purest form. From what I understand, AT is the same, although I can't even imagine how they do it there, never having danced it myself (although AT is not dealt with on this thread). Do any of the ballroom dances lend themselves to 'freestyling' (although that would seem the wrong terminology for ballroom - perhaps non-choreographed?) I would have thought so, but people have spoken so much on this thread about the lady being completely independent of the man that I've been wondering how they can freestyle at all. If he does not lead via the body, how can he signal her at all other than by saying 'let's move over there', and 'let's do this step'? In salsa, I can see by the movement and direction of the body, by the tensing of certain muscles indicating that he is getting ready to support a dip, by the feel of his arms and hands when indicating he wants to spin in a certain direction. Or are you talking about two completely different contexts (i.e. social and competition)? As a former competitor, we used to have ideal routines in our mind but this is always subject to change as there are many others on floor and you may not have the space to dance what you had planned. With regards to latin, we don't need routines to be able to dance the basic steps, These are easy to lead and follow. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1296 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,283
|
Quote:
As an experienced ballroom dancer, I am quite happy to be able to go anywhere with my partner and just dance. No routine is needed, I can just follow through the connection points and dance any variations, any dance
As a former competitor, we used to have ideal routines in our mind but this is always subject to change as there are many others on floor and you may not have the space to dance what you had planned. With regards to latin, we don't need routines to be able to dance the basic steps, These are easy to lead and follow. So when you say you follow through the connection points, do you mean that the man might exert a tiny amount of pressure through any one or more of them in order to indicate what he wants his partner to do, or do you sense it from tensing of his own muscles as he prepares to do whatever he has in mind? Or just a combination of everything? (talking from female perspective obviously). You may feel this is a bit nitty gritty-ish, but I'm just trying to compare to what I would see and respond to when I dance salsa or similar dances (admittedly not to a very high level, but enough to be able to follow most of the guys on the dancefloor - you don't need to take your own partner, it's customary to dance with many people in a single night) |
|
|
|
|
|
#1297 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,525
|
Quote:
Once you've done any form of partner dancing, I think it's very difficult to go back to plain old dancing such as you might do in a club. Standing there in front of someone just randomly doing your own thing. Boring!
So when you say you follow through the connection points, do you mean that the man might exert a tiny amount of pressure through any one or more of them in order to indicate what he wants his partner to do, or do you sense it from tensing of his own muscles as he prepares to do whatever he has in mind? Or just a combination of everything? (talking from female perspective obviously). You may feel this is a bit nitty gritty-ish, but I'm just trying to compare to what I would see and respond to when I dance salsa or similar dances (admittedly not to a very high level, but enough to be able to follow most of the guys on the dancefloor - you don't need to take your own partner, it's customary to dance with many people in a single night) I think most people think a lead is quite a strong action performed by the man so that the lady can follow, ie through arms, or by pushing a little but it really isn't. There are many points of connection and there is a feel of resistance rather than a push. So for example, when we take hold, with regards to the right side connection, I allow my weight to come forward ( it already is in reality but I'm trying to make a point) and he will do the same. There is not feel of pushing but a resistance, so that no matter where he goes, I can easily go with him provided the connection is there. Obviously its more involved than this, but gives you an idea. Need good connection points with the hands/arms throughout the frame. In my opinion, the simple way to look at a lead, is that if the(experienced) man puts himself into the correct position, he will by default ensure I am in the correct position also. Moving his centre and right side to where it needs to be, means that I am also in the correct position. The back is always moving, very flexible to create beautiful shaping. I feel almost everything through the back/body/right side connection. When the male dancer knows what he is doing, ie in terms of being experienced, knowing the correct alignments for groups and how to dance those groups, any lady should be able to follow quite happily most of the time |
|
|
|
|
|
#1298 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,283
|
Quote:
My comments relate to my own ballroom dancing which of course is in hold where Salsa isn't of course.
I think most people think a lead is quite a strong action performed by the man so that the lady can follow, ie through arms, or by pushing a little but it really isn't. There are many points of connection and there is a feel of resistance rather than a push. So for example, when we take hold, with regards to the right side connection, I allow my weight to come forward ( it already is in reality but I'm trying to make a point) and he will do the same. There is not feel of pushing but a resistance, so that no matter where he goes, I can easily go with him provided the connection is there. Obviously its more involved than this, but gives you an idea. Need good connection points with the hands/arms throughout the frame. In my opinion, the simple way to look at a lead, is that if the(experienced) man puts himself into the correct position, he will by default ensure I am in the correct position also. Moving his centre and right side to where it needs to be, means that I am also in the correct position. The back is always moving, very flexible to create beautiful shaping. I feel almost everything through the back/body/right side connection. When the male dancer knows what he is doing, ie in terms of being experienced, knowing the correct alignments for groups and how to dance those groups, any lady should be able to follow quite happily most of the time |
|
|
|
|
|
#1299 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,434
|
Quote:
No, he'll be useless advising me!
. I've done the same, but my IDS shoes are very light flesh and easily show the dirt, which can therefore be a bit difficult to remove. |
|
|
|
|
|
#1300 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
|
Quote:
Clean them as best you can, then dye them a slightly darker tan/flesh colour. That's worked for me on several occasions.
|
|
|
|
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 15:41.




She (and AJ) are doing well though.
. I've done the same, but my IDS shoes are very light flesh and easily show the dirt, which can therefore be a bit difficult to remove.
However witch hazel cleans them beautifully. It might work on uppers too.