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Ballroom and Latin American Dance Questions |
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#1301 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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I've had to try the backward walk to understand your description and that movement is hard. Does the woman gain any support from the man whilst executing it?
I don't get the slow/quick beats or feather (?) at all Ann. I'm not musical/mathematical/language orientated so I'm quite dense. Clap your hands 4 times : 1 2 3 4 (not too fast) Now instead of clapping just once for each number, give 2 quick claps for every other number. So you get (1) clap (2)clapclap (3) clap (4)clapclap. Translate this to music and clap is a slow; clapclap is a quick. So you get slow - quickquick - slow - quickquick, and steps move accordingly. Not sure if any of that makes any sense at all. If not say so, and between us we'll come up with something different to explain. (Feather is a step in the foxtrot) One clap is then a slow, the 2 quick claps become quick-quick. |
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#1302 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Apologies if this has already been explained, but to try and put it really simply :
Clap your hands 4 times : 1 2 3 4 (not too fast) Now instead of clapping just once for each number, give 2 quick claps for every other number. So you get (1) clap (2)clapclap (3) clap (4)clapclap. Translate this to music and clap is a slow; clapclap is a quick. So you get slow - quickquick - slow - quickquick, and steps move accordingly. Not sure if any of that makes any sense at all. If not say so, and between us we'll come up with something different to explain. (Feather is a step in the foxtrot) One clap is then a slow, the 2 quick claps become quick-quick. or perhaps crotchet, two quavers, crotchet, two quavers would be better analogy? |
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#1303 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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or one quaver, two semi-quavers
or perhaps crotchet, two quavers, crotchet, two quavers would be better analogy? |
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#1304 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Not for someone who has admitted to be non musical and may not know what a quaver is .
ETA: getting pulled into watching this now - getting into more detail about the tiny things involved in the basic step and, more importantly, why you do them. Gives a small insight into why people say the FT is difficult! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCwKhLb_EFY And of course, as we all dance it...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOYzFKizikU
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#1305 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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I've never danced FT, but this looks like really good demonstration of Feather step (and slow slow quick quick slow involved there) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyUi8e_kkhA
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#1306 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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The timing of the feather is just slow, quick, quick. Although if you start your routine/dance with a feather, most couples will have a preparation step - a quick taken from the bar before.
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#1307 |
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,056
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Apologies if this has already been explained, but to try and put it really simply :
Clap your hands 4 times : 1 2 3 4 (not too fast) Now instead of clapping just once for each number, give 2 quick claps for every other number. So you get (1) clap (2)clapclap (3) clap (4)clapclap. Translate this to music and clap is a slow; clapclap is a quick. So you get slow - quickquick - slow - quickquick, and steps move accordingly. Not sure if any of that makes any sense at all. If not say so, and between us we'll come up with something different to explain. (Feather is a step in the foxtrot) One clap is then a slow, the 2 quick claps become quick-quick. |
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#1308 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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It all looks very complicated!
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#1309 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Hi kaycee. That makes perfect sense to my rudimentary understanding, thank you. Although trying it myself, my second double clap runs into the third solo clap! Is the quick like double time for barre? We do this in barre. Ordinary pace, during which you can think about what you are doing, and then double time when it's all fast!
Two quicks together take the same amount of time as 1 slow. So in any dance that is counted in 4 time you can get : "Slow - quick/quick - slow - quick/quick" (i.e. 6 steps or claps if you like) would take the same amount of time as : Slow - Slow - slow - slow (i.e. 4 steps or claps to each 4 beats of the music) The actual speed. of course, would depend on the dance |
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#1310 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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I have a question based on what Karen Hardy said on CC.
She was talking about Danny's posture and how in jive and samba your weight should be over the balls of your feet. She then went onto say that in rumba and cha cha your weight should be towards the heels." This is really not what I've been taught in my dancing. It's always been "nose over toes" in latin with samba "nose extremely over toes." I know she is extremely, extremely knowledgeable about latin dancing so I can't see how she could be wrong - but why so different to what I've been taught? Or have I misunderstood what she was saying? |
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#1311 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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I have a question based on what Karen Hardy said on CC.
She was talking about Danny's posture and how in jive and samba your weight should be over the balls of your feet. She then went onto say that in rumba and cha cha your weight should be towards the heels." This is really not what I've been taught in my dancing. It's always been "nose over toes" in latin with samba "nose extremely over toes." I know she is extremely, extremely knowledgeable about latin dancing so I can't see how she could be wrong - but why so different to what I've been taught? Or have I misunderstood what she was saying? |
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#1312 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
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Quote:
I have a question based on what Karen Hardy said on CC.
She was talking about Danny's posture and how in jive and samba your weight should be over the balls of your feet. She then went onto say that in rumba and cha cha your weight should be towards the heels." This is really not what I've been taught in my dancing. It's always been "nose over toes" in latin with samba "nose extremely over toes." I know she is extremely, extremely knowledgeable about latin dancing so I can't see how she could be wrong - but why so different to what I've been taught? Or have I misunderstood what she was saying? |
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#1313 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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I was even more confused by her saying that weight should be over the balls of your feet in jive and then demonstrating by leaning as far backwards as possible.
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#1314 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,439
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I think Karen may have been demonstrating the ( ladies) chicken walks at this point, which will have the appearance of "leaning back".
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#1315 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
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Karen reflects the IDTA book where the poise for Rumba and Cha cha is different to that for Samba and Jive. I am studying Rumba for my teaching exams and so I will double check. However, I think it is explained as follows.
In both you stand upright with lifted rib cage and straightened spine (and relaxed shoulders of course). However in R &C the weight is felt near the heel of the standing foot. I assume this is because the supporting leg is locked back and it would be difficult to lock back if your weight was further forward in the foot. However it does say that any moving back of the pelvis when you lock the leg should be kept to a degree where it does not affect the upper body and so I think this would still give a slightly forward tilt to the body. In S & J the weight is kept to the ball of the foot because the knees are flexed and both have a certain amount of bounce as the legs flex more and less. It says body weight is more forward in Jive. (Some exceptions for both are stated, including Chicken Walks) |
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#1316 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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Karen reflects the IDTA book where the poise for Rumba and Cha cha is different to that for Samba and Jive. I am studying Rumba for my teaching exams and so I will double check. However, I think it is explained as follows.
In both you stand upright with lifted rib cage and straightened spine (and relaxed shoulders of course). However in R &C the weight is felt near the heel of the standing foot. I assume this is because the supporting leg is locked back and it would be difficult to lock back if your weight was further forward in the foot. However it does say that any moving back of the pelvis when you lock the leg should be kept to a degree where it does not affect the upper body and so I think this would still give a slightly forward tilt to the body. In S & J the weight is kept to the ball of the foot because the knees are flexed and both have a certain amount of bounce as the legs flex more and less. It says body weight is more forward in Jive.
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#1317 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,283
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Quote:
Karen reflects the IDTA book where the poise for Rumba and Cha cha is different to that for Samba and Jive. I am studying Rumba for my teaching exams and so I will double check. However, I think it is explained as follows.
In both you stand upright with lifted rib cage and straightened spine (and relaxed shoulders of course). However in R &C the weight is felt near the heel of the standing foot. I assume this is because the supporting leg is locked back and it would be difficult to lock back if your weight was further forward in the foot. However it does say that any moving back of the pelvis when you lock the leg should be kept to a degree where it does not affect the upper body and so I think this would still give a slightly forward tilt to the body. In S & J the weight is kept to the ball of the foot because the knees are flexed and both have a certain amount of bounce as the legs flex more and less. It says body weight is more forward in Jive. (Some exceptions for both are stated, including Chicken Walks) |
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#1318 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
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Thank you for that - I think it was the worst demo Karen has ever given. She made no explanation of what was wrong with Danny's dancing (she mentioned shin forwards but then did not show corrected position), her one description (about weight distribution) being completely irrelevant to the step she then showed. I see a lot of jivers in bent forward position, weight forward but nevertheless isolating torso from legs (torso still & poised while legs do their thang!) All depending on what step they're doing, of course. Not for the whole routine.
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#1319 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Apart perhaps from the one the day before when she got to her feet to show how the hip movement in salsa is achieved/occurs - and then didn't!
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#1320 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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That was extra special! She just doesn't have the courage of her convictions - why not abandon the idea of showing figure 8 and just slow it right down to show where hip movement comes from in the first place. They give the impression on Strictly that "hip movement" is an entirely separate thing that you've somehow got to overlay onto the steps - hence people who think "their hips don't move". Whereas in fact, hip movement is a natural side effect of correctly performed leg action, use of floor, change of weight distribution etc. etc. Standing still and grinding your hips around and around like you do when you use a hula hoop is not the same thing.
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#1321 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
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That was extra special! She just doesn't have the courage of her convictions - why not abandon the idea of showing figure 8 and just slow it right down to show where hip movement comes from in the first place. They give the impression on Strictly that "hip movement" is an entirely separate thing that you've somehow got to overlay onto the steps - hence people who think "their hips don't move". Whereas in fact, hip movement is a natural side effect of correctly performed leg action, use of floor, change of weight distribution etc. etc. Standing still and grinding your hips around and around like you do when you use a hula hoop is not the same thing.
As an amateur AT teacher I find often the key is just finding the right words to resonate with a particular student so the more analogies and words to describe I have the better. (Not that pushing out of the floor applies to AT BTW) So I was dissappointed that she just stood up and waggled her tush a bit. |
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#1322 |
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Join Date: Sep 2016
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Absolutely. The hip movement is created by the correct foot pressure into the floor, etc., however to be fair, this can take quite a while to achieve, and in the time scale of learning a dance from scratch on Strictly, it is seldom possible, so the celebs get encouraged to move their hips "artificially". This can then give an exaggerated effect which we call 'popping' (not an official name of course!) which can become quite ugly.
In contrast in 10 dance I'm concentrating more on remembering what to do with my feet, trying not to step on other peoples or avoid a newbie dancefloor pile up, the rest of my body is somewhat neglected! Maybe Shakira was right and hips don't lie! |
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#1323 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Exactly. That is what I assumed she had got to her feet to demonstrate. I hoped she would talk about how you push out of/through the floor because I was hoping for some better words to describe, to someone who has never done it, what is mean't by pushing out of the floor.
As an amateur AT teacher I find often the key is just finding the right words to resonate with a particular student so the more analogies and words to describe I have the better. (Not that pushing out of the floor applies to AT BTW) So I was dissappointed that she just stood up and waggled her tush a bit. |
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#1324 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Many thanks Jennifer F and Ann for your explanations.
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#1325 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South East
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Exactly. That is what I assumed she had got to her feet to demonstrate. I hoped she would talk about how you push out of/through the floor because I was hoping for some better words to describe, to someone who has never done it, what is mean't by pushing out of the floor.
As an amateur AT teacher I find often the key is just finding the right words to resonate with a particular student so the more analogies and words to describe I have the better. (Not that pushing out of the floor applies to AT BTW) So I was dissappointed that she just stood up and waggled her tush a bit. Happy to continue learning, so really interested in your comment. |
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