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Ballroom and Latin American Dance Questions |
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#1351 |
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Land of Glitter
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Quote:
If you are talking about the movement in Jay's jive at 1.24 as has been mentioned, then it is simply a variation on kicks and flicks. Only steps that are included in the technique books have names. Definitely limited to the more capable celebs - i.e. with this movement, celebs who have prior dance training.
And thanks to everyone else who responded |
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#1352 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Quote:
If you are talking about the movement in Jay's jive at 1.24 as has been mentioned, then it is simply a variation on kicks and flicks. Only steps that are included in the technique books have names. Definitely limited to the more capable celebs - i.e. with this movement, celebs who have prior dance training.
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#1353 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,439
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Having no idea of the correct terminology, I always called them "pendulum" flicks in my mind!
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#1354 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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Re Ore's VW.
I appreciate that a Fleckrl is difficult to do (and difficult to spell!) and a 10 second one may be harder to maintain than a mere 5 second one. But I timed Ore's as 25 seconds long (didn't quite make the half minute). But wonder if spending that long in a spin is a bit of a soft option (assuming you don't pass out or throw up) Would a 5 second fleckrl plus 20 seconds of other choreography had a higher degree of difficulty? |
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#1355 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,185
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Quote:
Re Ore's VW.
I appreciate that a Fleckrl is difficult to do (and difficult to spell!) and a 10 second one may be harder to maintain than a mere 5 second one. But I timed Ore's as 25 seconds long (didn't quite make the half minute). But wonder if spending that long in a spin is a bit of a soft option (assuming you don't pass out or throw up) Would a 5 second fleckrl plus 20 seconds of other choreography had a higher degree of difficulty? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FIzxOFi2u8 |
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#1356 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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guys in Ore's VW the other male extra dancer (not Neil) is that Curtis - AJ's bro
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#1357 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Yes in ideal world would love lovely VW music and a lovely lilting routine but this is Strictly and I think you have to take it in context of the music and the show and I thought Jo was very clever to do that - it was not the greatest music not pure VW and to get good impact with the crowd you need something to get them going and VW again hard to get that with so doing a long fleckrl was probably a good option - nothing new for Jo though here is a clip of her and Paolo doing the same on the comp floor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FIzxOFi2u8
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#1358 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Looks so much better in a ball gown and tails.
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#1359 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
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Quote:
Yes in ideal world would love lovely VW music and a lovely lilting routine but this is Strictly and I think you have to take it in context of the music and the show and I thought Jo was very clever to do that - it was not the greatest music not pure VW and to get good impact with the crowd you need something to get them going and VW again hard to get that with so doing a long fleckrl was probably a good option - nothing new for Jo though here is a clip of her and Paolo doing the same on the comp floor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FIzxOFi2u8 |
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#1360 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
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I have to be honest and say that I could easily live without the existence of the Fleckerl in the Viennese Waltz (as skilful as Jo and Paolo are there). I prefer just to see the movement round the room. Also I prefer the VW as a group dance. Add to that the inappropriate music that is always chosen (particularly for Ore and Jo), the result is that the VW is probably my least favourite ballroom dance on Strictly.
In answer to Mimi, VW choreography is very limited. Natural Turn Reverse Turn Natural To Reverse Reverse To Natural Reverse Fleckerl Contra Check Natural Fleckerl |
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#1361 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
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I have a question about dance shoes or more to the point the fastenings. Does anyone know the story behind the fastening where the buckle is fixed on the strap and then hooks around a thing on the shoe itself. I assume it is supposed to be about making it easy ot get them on and off.
I have ... well I am not going to even admit to myself how many pairs of dance shoes I have. I have two pairs with normal buckles like you get on a belt. I have one pair of Katz that have a popper ( I love those shoes, I can be on the dance floor in a flash and off again just as fast) All the rest have this annoying fastening system which is a real boon for getting the shoe on. Yet are often really impossible to get off. I have known to be sat half cross legged on the floor at the end of a dance, with my foot in my lap almost crying with frustration (fury) because I can't get my damned shoes off. I have been known to have ![]() ![]() ![]() I assume its because hot, worked feet swell a little and the strap gets tighter so there is no play left to stretch them beyond the hook contraption. Also I find often that during the course of the dance the buckle has worked its way into the hooky thing and they are sort of tangled or locked together. It makes me wonder how such a contraption came about and what the benefots are deemed to be. |
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#1362 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,021
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I'm still at the stage of finding fleckerls extremely hard and personally I find it hard to maintain my posture/frame on them still so I wouldn't consider doing that a soft option at all and would find it hard than a dance purely consisting of natural and reverse turns.
I thought Jo put together an AMAZING routine given the music. Not a trad VW at all but I loved the style of the number - it was like an old musical. I kind of wish they'd danced in and out of the long fleckerl though. It was a great gimmick to add that was still pure dance content imo. Everyone knows VW on strictly as "that dance with the fleckerl" and wait for the couple to do the fleckerl - great way to grab attention and impress strictly audiences by putting an uber fleckerl in there. |
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#1363 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 1,663
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You do better than me An Thropologist. I used to wear Ray Rose Ballroom courts with an ankle strap that hooked and it would take me ages to get them on. Actually taking them off wasn't so bad. I went back to a diagonal strap, although I prefer an ankle strap. I do think the positioning of the strap makes a difference as I am sure I have had the hook in other brands and they are fine. I have some Werner Kern Latin with a popper and those are great.
I wonder if they have them to stop the strap from fraying/breaking through constant use of the buckle holes? |
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#1364 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
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Quote:
You do better than me An Thropologist. I used to wear Ray Rose Ballroom courts with an ankle strap that hooked and it would take me ages to get them on. Actually taking them off wasn't so bad. I went back to a diagonal strap, although I prefer an ankle strap. I do think the positioning of the strap makes a difference as I am sure I have had the hook in other makes and they are fine. I have some Werner Kern Latin with a popper and those are great.
I wonder if they have them to stop the strap from fraying/breaking through constant use of the buckle holes? Poppers are defintely the way to go and I have never once had them spontaneously un-pop mid dance. Am glad its not only me the battles with the blankety blank things though. |
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#1365 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,439
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Quote:
I have a question about dance shoes or more to the point the fastenings. Does anyone know the story behind the fastening where the buckle is fixed on the strap and then hooks around a thing on the shoe itself. I assume it is supposed to be about making it easy ot get them on and off.
I have ... well I am not going to even admit to myself how many pairs of dance shoes I have. I have two pairs with normal buckles like you get on a belt. I have one pair of Katz that have a popper ( I love those shoes, I can be on the dance floor in a flash and off again just as fast) All the rest have this annoying fastening system which is a real boon for getting the shoe on. Yet are often really impossible to get off. I have known to be sat half cross legged on the floor at the end of a dance, with my foot in my lap almost crying with frustration (fury) because I can't get my damned shoes off. I have been known to have ![]() ![]() ![]() I assume its because hot, worked feet swell a little and the strap gets tighter so there is no play left to stretch them beyond the hook contraption. Also I find often that during the course of the dance the buckle has worked its way into the hooky thing and they are sort of tangled or locked together. It makes me wonder how such a contraption came about and what the benefots are deemed to be. There are still those who say there should be no straps on ballroom court shoes at all. I believe it was ??? Dokman (sorry her first name escapes me) who started wearing straps in major comps. When I asked her about them she told me she had to go to Italy to get them. When I asked Superdance - who make shoes to order - if they would make me a pair they refused, so I made my own by buying the long Latin shoe replacement straps and sticking them in place. One judge actually told me they were an abomination! Though plenty of other dancers liked them, and started to copy them. Thing is I have very narrow ankles and no court shoes ever stay put, and straps look much better than the sellotape dancers sometimes used to use to tape their shoes on. I think they became more acceptable as ballroom choreography became faster and more 'athletic'. |
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#1366 |
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 358
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Count me in as another one who trouble with the 'quick release' (I've seen them called that, oh what lies!) buckles, somehow the hook always get tangled in the buckle somehow, either during dancing or from me trying to get them off. I always assumed it was just me being a clumsy fool so I'm glad to know I'm not alone!
I'm tempted by those snappy stud ones! |
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#1367 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 426
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Glad you mentioned the shoe fastening too. I often find it a nightmare, especially if you need to get them on quickly! I have size 3 narrow feet and find it very difficult to find shoes that fit so always enjoy the shoe discussion by more knowledgeable posters.
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#1368 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,021
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My main latin shoes are ray rose with a normal buckle and I actually find them so fiddly compared to the quick release ones. The straps look all frayed and horrible now and look like they'll break at any moment. GREAT shoes but will probably need replacing due to the strap soon.
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#1369 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
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Quote:
Re Ore's VW.
I appreciate that a Fleckrl is difficult to do (and difficult to spell!) and a 10 second one may be harder to maintain than a mere 5 second one. But I timed Ore's as 25 seconds long (didn't quite make the half minute). But wonder if spending that long in a spin is a bit of a soft option (assuming you don't pass out or throw up) Would a 5 second fleckrl plus 20 seconds of other choreography had a higher degree of difficulty? There is no other choreography in a fleckerl. It is just reverses,naturals and the contra check. Saw Arunas and Katusha dance a full fleckerl with a slow contra check with him exiting backwards rather then facing line of dance to exit. |
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#1370 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
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Quote:
I think it comes down to personal preference. Straps with hooks (ballroom and Latin) do tend to last longer than the ones with buckles that do break easily around the hole always used, but I found the hook straps are virtually impossible to replace, whereas the buckle straps can be replaced very easily - and cheaply!
There are still those who say there should be no straps on ballroom court shoes at all. I believe it was ??? Dokman (sorry her first name escapes me) who started wearing straps in major comps. When I asked her about them she told me she had to go to Italy to get them. When I asked Superdance - who make shoes to order - if they would make me a pair they refused, so I made my own by buying the long Latin shoe replacement straps and sticking them in place. One judge actually told me they were an abomination! Though plenty of other dancers liked them, and started to copy them. Thing is I have very narrow ankles and no court shoes ever stay put, and straps look much better than the sellotape dancers sometimes used to use to tape their shoes on. I think they became more acceptable as ballroom choreography became faster and more 'athletic'. There are quite a few (top) judges that will not mark ladies wearing shoes with straps as they say it ruins the look, shape and line of the foot. They are not wrong of course, however some ladies actually need these for the shoes to stay on. I was told years ago that unless I was dependent on them, its best not to wear shoes with straps. I was talking to Jo Bolton yesterday ( she used to wear Freed Kylie which has a diagonal strap) and she said that she would rather see ladies dance and keep the shoes on than not. Jo used to dye the strap to match her tights. |
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#1371 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,802
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Quote:
I have a question about dance shoes or more to the point the fastenings. Does anyone know the story behind the fastening where the buckle is fixed on the strap and then hooks around a thing on the shoe itself. I assume it is supposed to be about making it easy ot get them on and off.
I have ... well I am not going to even admit to myself how many pairs of dance shoes I have. I have two pairs with normal buckles like you get on a belt. I have one pair of Katz that have a popper ( I love those shoes, I can be on the dance floor in a flash and off again just as fast) All the rest have this annoying fastening system which is a real boon for getting the shoe on. Yet are often really impossible to get off. I have known to be sat half cross legged on the floor at the end of a dance, with my foot in my lap almost crying with frustration (fury) because I can't get my damned shoes off. I have been known to have ![]() ![]() ![]() I assume its because hot, worked feet swell a little and the strap gets tighter so there is no play left to stretch them beyond the hook contraption. Also I find often that during the course of the dance the buckle has worked its way into the hooky thing and they are sort of tangled or locked together. It makes me wonder how such a contraption came about and what the benefots are deemed to be. |
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#1372 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,439
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Quote:
You must mean Amanda...
There are quite a few (top) judges that will not mark ladies wearing shoes with straps as they say it ruins the look, shape and line of the foot. They are not wrong of course, however some ladies actually need these for the shoes to stay on. I was told years ago that unless I was dependent on them, its best not to wear shoes with straps. I was talking to Jo Bolton yesterday ( she used to wear Freed Kylie which has a diagonal strap) and she said that she would rather see ladies dance and keep the shoes on than not. Jo used to dye the strap to match her tights. Straps v no straps? No straps certainly look more elegant, I would never deny that. But ballroom has now become a lot more athletic - especially the quickstep - that straps become the safer option. We were watching the first round of the Amateur ballroom in Bournemouth some years ago, when no less than 5 ladies managed to lose a shoe halfway through one of their dances. This wasn't just a problem for the ladies in question, but you know how crowded that floor is in the first rounds? One of the lose shoes caused another couple to take a very nasty tumble, and had to retire from the comp. So, for me, safety comes first. (No one would suggest Latin was danced with strapless shoes, would they?) |
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#1373 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
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Quote:
Thank you - yes, Amanda. How could I have forgotten?
Straps v no straps? No straps certainly look more elegant, I would never deny that. But ballroom has now become a lot more athletic - especially the quickstep - that straps become the safer option. We were watching the first round of the Amateur ballroom in Bournemouth some years ago, when no less than 5 ladies managed to lose a shoe halfway through one of their dances. This wasn't just a problem for the ladies in question, but you know how crowded that floor is in the first rounds? One of the lose shoes caused another couple to take a very nasty tumble, and had to retire from the comp. So, for me, safety comes first. (No one would suggest Latin was danced with strapless shoes, would they?) |
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#1374 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,520
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Not really Strictly related but more DWTS,,,,,,, saw a fabulous dem yesterday live at Blackpool, by Slavik and Karina Smirnoff. Just WOW. Amazing, standing ovations galore, and Tess wasn't even there to let us all know.
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#1375 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,439
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Quote:
Not really Strictly related but more DWTS,,,,,,, saw a fabulous dem yesterday live at Blackpool, by Slavik and Karina Smirnoff. Just WOW. Amazing, standing ovations galore, and Tess wasn't even there to let us all know.
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I have two pairs with normal buckles like you get on a belt. I have one pair of Katz that have a popper ( I love those shoes, I can be on the dance floor in a flash and off again just as fast) 
