Thank you! I love the way this looks when done to a good standard (Louise's looked a little lacking in energy)

And thanks to everyone else who responded

Having no idea of the correct terminology, I always called them "pendulum" flicks in my mind!

Pendulum is a good descriptive name.

Re Ore's VW.
I appreciate that a Fleckrl is difficult to do (and difficult to spell!) and a 10 second one may be harder to maintain than a mere 5 second one.
But I timed Ore's as 25 seconds long (didn't quite make the half minute).
But wonder if spending that long in a spin is a bit of a soft option (assuming you don't pass out or throw up)
Would a 5 second fleckrl plus 20 seconds of other choreography had a higher degree of difficulty?

Yes in ideal world would love lovely VW music and a lovely lilting routine but this is Strictly and I think you have to take it in context of the music and the show and I thought Jo was very clever to do that - it was not the greatest music not pure VW and to get good impact with the crowd you need something to get them going and VW again hard to get that with so doing a long fleckrl was probably a good option - nothing new for Jo though here is a clip of her and Paolo doing the same on the comp floor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FIzxOFi2u8

guys in Ore's VW the other male extra dancer (not Neil) is that Curtis - AJ's bro

Looks so much better in a ball gown and tails.

Ore yet to wear tails - hoping for them for foxtrot or quickstep

Brilliant way to make yourselves stand out. Particularly impressed that for most of that they managed to do full 360 degree turn with every bar of the music.

I have to be honest and say that I could easily live without the existence of the Fleckerl in the Viennese Waltz (as skilful as Jo and Paolo are there). I prefer just to see the movement round the room. Also I prefer the VW as a group dance. Add to that the inappropriate music that is always chosen (particularly for Ore and Jo), the result is that the VW is probably my least favourite ballroom dance on Strictly.

In answer to Mimi, VW choreography is very limited.

Natural Turn
Reverse Turn
Natural To Reverse
Reverse To Natural
Reverse Fleckerl
Contra Check
Natural Fleckerl

I have a question about dance shoes or more to the point the fastenings. Does anyone know the story behind the fastening where the buckle is fixed on the strap and then hooks around a thing on the shoe itself. I assume it is supposed to be about making it easy ot get them on and off.

I have ... well I am not going to even admit to myself how many pairs of dance shoes I have. I have two pairs with normal buckles like you get on a belt. I have one pair of Katz that have a popper ( I love those shoes, I can be on the dance floor in a flash and off again just as fast)

All the rest have this annoying fastening system which is a real boon for getting the shoe on. Yet are often really impossible to get off. I have known to be sat half cross legged on the floor at the end of a dance, with my foot in my lap almost crying with frustration (fury) because I can't get my damned shoes off. I have been known to have

I assume its because hot, worked feet swell a little and the strap gets tighter so there is no play left to stretch them beyond the hook contraption. Also I find often that during the course of the dance the buckle has worked its way into the hooky thing and they are sort of tangled or locked together.

It makes me wonder how such a contraption came about and what the benefots are deemed to be.

I'm still at the stage of finding fleckerls extremely hard and personally I find it hard to maintain my posture/frame on them still so I wouldn't consider doing that a soft option at all and would find it hard than a dance purely consisting of natural and reverse turns.

I thought Jo put together an AMAZING routine given the music. Not a trad VW at all but I loved the style of the number - it was like an old musical. I kind of wish they'd danced in and out of the long fleckerl though. It was a great gimmick to add that was still pure dance content imo. Everyone knows VW on strictly as "that dance with the fleckerl" and wait for the couple to do the fleckerl - great way to grab attention and impress strictly audiences by putting an uber fleckerl in there.

You do better than me An Thropologist. I used to wear Ray Rose Ballroom courts with an ankle strap that hooked and it would take me ages to get them on. Actually taking them off wasn't so bad. I went back to a diagonal strap, although I prefer an ankle strap. I do think the positioning of the strap makes a difference as I am sure I have had the hook in other brands and they are fine. I have some Werner Kern Latin with a popper and those are great.

I wonder if they have them to stop the strap from fraying/breaking through constant use of the buckle holes?

Yes that makes sense actually. I think instinctively that is why I rarely succumb to unbuckling the buckle to get them off, that and knowing it takes a lot of trial and error to find the best hole in the first place. Also its easy to lose the tiny buckle if it is not fixed to the strap.

Poppers are defintely the way to go and I have never once had them spontaneously un-pop mid dance. Am glad its not only me the battles with the blankety blank things though.

I think it comes down to personal preference. Straps with hooks (ballroom and Latin) do tend to last longer than the ones with buckles that do break easily around the hole always used, but I found the hook straps are virtually impossible to replace, whereas the buckle straps can be replaced very easily - and cheaply!

There are still those who say there should be no straps on ballroom court shoes at all. I believe it was ??? Dokman (sorry her first name escapes me) who started wearing straps in major comps. When I asked her about them she told me she had to go to Italy to get them. When I asked Superdance - who make shoes to order - if they would make me a pair they refused, so I made my own by buying the long Latin shoe replacement straps and sticking them in place. One judge actually told me they were an abomination! Though plenty of other dancers liked them, and started to copy them. Thing is I have very narrow ankles and no court shoes ever stay put, and straps look much better than the sellotape dancers sometimes used to use to tape their shoes on. I think they became more acceptable as ballroom choreography became faster and more 'athletic'.

Count me in as another one who trouble with the 'quick release' (I've seen them called that, oh what lies!) buckles, somehow the hook always get tangled in the buckle somehow, either during dancing or from me trying to get them off. I always assumed it was just me being a clumsy fool so I'm glad to know I'm not alone!
I'm tempted by those snappy stud ones!

Glad you mentioned the shoe fastening too. I often find it a nightmare, especially if you need to get them on quickly! I have size 3 narrow feet and find it very difficult to find shoes that fit so always enjoy the shoe discussion by more knowledgeable posters.

My main latin shoes are ray rose with a normal buckle and I actually find them so fiddly compared to the quick release ones. The straps look all frayed and horrible now and look like they'll break at any moment. GREAT shoes but will probably need replacing due to the strap soon.

In the clip Bendy attached, Jo and Paulo are dancing in a WDSF comp where their rules and regulations are somewhat different from WDC. Actually I have never seen a "long" fleckerl like that but dancers do dance different types. I was taught a full fleckerl which is man dancing to centre in reverses, 3 rotations then contra check, 3 rotations of naturals to exit. Some dancers just come to centre into contra check, 2 or 3 rotations of naturals then exit.
There is no other choreography in a fleckerl. It is just reverses,naturals and the contra check. Saw Arunas and Katusha dance a full fleckerl with a slow contra check with him exiting backwards rather then facing line of dance to exit.

You must mean Amanda...
There are quite a few (top) judges that will not mark ladies wearing shoes with straps as they say it ruins the look, shape and line of the foot. They are not wrong of course, however some ladies actually need these for the shoes to stay on. I was told years ago that unless I was dependent on them, its best not to wear shoes with straps. I was talking to Jo Bolton yesterday ( she used to wear Freed Kylie which has a diagonal strap) and she said that she would rather see ladies dance and keep the shoes on than not. Jo used to dye the strap to match her tights.

Not sure if this is the fastener you're referring to, but found this, hope it helps.

Thank you - yes, Amanda. How could I have forgotten?

Straps v no straps? No straps certainly look more elegant, I would never deny that. But ballroom has now become a lot more athletic - especially the quickstep - that straps become the safer option. We were watching the first round of the Amateur ballroom in Bournemouth some years ago, when no less than 5 ladies managed to lose a shoe halfway through one of their dances. This wasn't just a problem for the ladies in question, but you know how crowded that floor is in the first rounds? One of the lose shoes caused another couple to take a very nasty tumble, and had to retire from the comp.

So, for me, safety comes first. (No one would suggest Latin was danced with strapless shoes, would they?)

I expect that most of the top dancers wear sponsered shoes and some may have them made to fit their feet exactly?. I know Pro;s in the past that have shoes given to them, the manufacturers actually have a "last" of their feet to ensure a great fit. I never have a problem but I expect a lot of ladies do. I have only ever lost a shoe if someone has caught my foot from behind and taken it off. A close inspection of shoes yesterday at the Worlds showed that in the main, ladies wear courts, but a few still had dirty shoes, some with straps. !!!! Why oh why??? Top ladies shoes are beautiful as you would expect, new and clean but you really can't dance in a much bigger comp that the World Pro Ballroom, so why turn up in dirty shoes...

Not really Strictly related but more DWTS,,,,,,, saw a fabulous dem yesterday live at Blackpool, by Slavik and Karina Smirnoff. Just WOW. Amazing, standing ovations galore, and Tess wasn't even there to let us all know.

Oh I'm just soooooooooooo jealous! Slavik has always been my favourite male Latin dancer - favourite for his dancing, Not his temperament! Just think how far he would have gone if he had watched that temper and avoided being dumped by Joanne L.