As Ellie has said, the answer is no, couples must remain in proper hold throughout all ballroom routines.

But the exception is American Smooth (W, fox, VW, T), where couples need to remain in hold for only 40% of each routine, but competition AS is seldom, if ever, used in competition in UK. What we see on Strictly is not authentic AS, but more of a mish-mash of Fred & Ginge type stage dance.

Ooooh I have a question relating to dancing out of hold in ballroom actually!

Sometimes my teacher and I do a little "intro" section in the viennese waltz before we take hold. I don't think I've ever seen this in a pro competition but I swear I've seen it at medallist competitions. I'm not sure how to describe the intro other than you start standing next to each other (rather than opposite,) step to side, step so you are opposite your partner, curtsy then take hold (and stay in hold. Pretty sure I did this in exams too. Is this more of a medallist thing? What's the story with it?

Thank you for all the replies.

Would experts here say that Kevin and Louise danced a Waltz last night or an American Smooth?

Craig mentioned kick ball changes in one of the dances last night, but it wasn't Jive. Do they exist in other dances?

In tango, although I hadn't heard them called that. They are performed in promenade. A sort of kick or point of outside foot, almost close to other foot and then change weight.

No, it isn't. It's one of my worst bad habits, and my dance teacher is constantly telling me off for it! I seem to have a habit of doing it without thinking when switching my head back from open to closed position, which I'm trying very hard to train myself out of!

I read Brendan's column most weeks interestingly his dance of the week was not the samba but Louise's waltz - his blog over the weeks has seemed fair to me and he has not favoured one couple - of course on the threads he would be accused of bias this week

His comments

Winner of the week: Louise and Kevin. I mean, the waltz is one of the easier ballroom dances but they did it really, really well and it was a beautiful story and captured what they'd been trying to achieve and what's potentially been lacking, so well done to them!

On The cha cha

But the cha cha challenge wasn't my cup of tea!

It's not my bag, to be honest – I thought it was all a bit ridiculous. I'm surprised they did it, because the four judges never agree with each other, so how do they agree with each other on that? I actually would have marked Ed higher – I think he did a really good cha cha. I think Louise was probably right to win it. But I don't love the fact that it's in there because it can actually change things quite dramatically.

At a higher level of dancing, definitely not. As I have said in a previous post outside of this thread, you would be surprised at how many beginners do this. Actually when I first started, before the music starts and you stand in front of your partner....when the music started and I took up hold, my eyes would glance down and up again. I was never aware that i did, and don't know why I did, until my teacher at the time, brought it to my attention.
She said that by doing this, even though I may feel confident, I actually LOOKED unsure.
It took a little mental effort in the next practices to get rid of this habit.
Of course in Louise's case, each week she has to learn a new routine, learn the relevant technique, add to that the pressure that she may put on herself to do well, and in a live show, the habits - unless you rehearse so much that they are no longer habits - will appear. I have no doubts at all that Kevin would have tried to sort this out, but only Louise can do it, he cannot wave a magic wand.
Thought for the day : some rehearse until they get it right... think about rehearsing until you don't get it wrong. Makes sense to dancers.

Some of you may not have seen posts from me over the weekend in which I stated that I will not be posting in this forum anymore.

I stand by that decision and I will not be browsing the other threads which in m,y opinion consist mainly of speculation and the usual nasty comments concerning various dancers. People generally going round in circles repeatedly saying the same things.

To those that may know a little of my background, I do feel I have more than enough knowledge to be able comment fairly and in a neutral way about the dances each week.
I draw the line at having my unbiased opinions on the dances and performances being questioned in an aggressive manner. Of course this is a forum and we are all entitled to opinions but there comes a point when some overstep the mark.

For anyone that may want to dance chat or just chat in general, this is the only thread that I will peruse. Hope to "speak" to one or two of you soon

Well said Brendan, but it simply backs up what we all knew anyway.!! The Waltz was sublime, well done to both.
Non dancers will not appreciate quality and as a dancer progresses in ballroom, its all about the synchronicity and quality of movement. These are two of the main things that you continue to improve upon.

Hi Ellie, I would say that this must be done at medallist comps only?. I could probably count on one hand the number of times that I have ever seen couples in Opens dance a little intro at the start of VW. I certainly have never done it myself
The couples these days are so fast and powerful, that it actually would be quite dangerous if couples danced this intro, in the line of dance once couples started to move.

I'b be tempted to say more of an American Smooth style Waltz as they broke hold during the dance. They had an eight bar intro at the start which is fair enough, but it was not danced in hold thoughout.

However, what Louise danced was fabulous, so very classy. Perhaps my favourite part is about 48/49 seconds where she is doing an underarm turn then sprirals with EXCELLENT feet in contact with the floor, into a fabulous PP ..great stuff.

the judges did not mind the breaking of hold,and this is Strictly rules, so why should I mind!! Dance of the night for me, oozing quality.

My brother loved the same bit too Jennifer it was also Brendan's dance of the night too

It was fantastic, the amount of work that must have gone into this, making it so smooth. It was quality dancing, and this is what others on the rest of the forum cannot appreciate....the quality not just in the footwork but the movement too.

Unless it is frantic and in your face , it is never a WOW dance for the others, just bland , dull and boring. As if we have not read it a hundred times.

This is exactly what makes it s WOW dance for me, the quality of the dance and movement, just lovely.
Kevin is such an excellent teacher and choreographer, and its no coincidence that he gets his ladies to the finals. Tell that to the others though

Being a family of dancers with only one of us who does not (my sister) I always ask her husband what he thinks of the show as he has no idea about the ins and out of dance and watches on a Saturday because my sister does.

Each week he has a different favourite and find his comments really interesting. He likes best Danny, Louise and Ore and has enjoyed Ed Ball, on the pro dancers his faves are Natalie and Kevin - of kevin he says doesn't matter who his partner is, costume or music you get a half decent dance

Interestingly my nephew caught the show last week (he also is not a dancer) and said that when he was watching Danny and Oti in the Charleston he was trying to work out who Oti was asking his wife is she in a soap, or a singer ? as he thought on the dancing Danny was the pro!

That might also be due to a clash of cultures? You seem to find a dance lovely (and define it as the 'best') that is particularly pleasing technically. However, others look for a dance that 'moves' them, which is something more indefinable. They might even recognize the good technique but not care because the dance just left them cold. I think that's been the main problem for a lot of people with Louise - technically good but not connecting with the audience. I've also seen a lot of restraint in her body which I find annoying (less evident in ballroom) - moves are not 'finished' with conviction, she always draws back, she's always 'placed'. that's actually why I kind of liked (parts of) her Paso. I saw her wave those skirts with utter conviction.

I'm sorry to hear you won't be posting in other threads, as I always like seeing your comments, and discussion on other threads tends to roam wider. However, prior to this year, I would not have known genuinely knowledgeable people from non-experts (as many people give their opinions so definitively - including *cough* myself often, because I can't be bothered to put an "IMO" in front of every single post). In the app thread where I usually post, people know this, but I tend to forget that outside of it, people don't know me and don't know the limitations of my knowledge! So people don't know when they're 'talking' to you (and others on this thread) that they're arguing with someone who does in fact know what they are talking about in terms of technique.

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Everybody is entitled to have an opinion, but for me this is just not any old dance show, even though its not a serious competition, it is still based on ballroom and latin dances, and I "judge" as such.

As an experienced dancer myself, I know what is right and what is not. For me its either correct or not - technically speaking. I can understand that watching something lyrical, you want to be moved, I get that, but with ballroom, I am judging dancing on the show, is the same way as I would be judged myself in a competition, it has to be technique first and foremost, just as Len looks at it.

This is probably one of those areas where we'll agree to disagree as I have always been taught to place my arms etc. it is essential not to over dance. What you refer to in Paso is correct, and its a different style - as is Tango.

I think its more a case of understanding the characteristics of each dance, I don't think that most viewers understand this and why each dance is totally different from each other. If you are looking at dancing that they do on stage, that 's different, but no ballroom dances really should be "in your face". Perhaps some are in this show, but that would be because the pro has to choreograph to awful music and theme. In the real world Ballroom dances are not like that, but they are powerful and beautiful in the right way.

Danny certainly give the impression of being a pro..just in the confident way he dances. Lacking technically but more than makes up in the performance department, Should be due a ballroom this week ?

Thank you

I hope I'm not one to like only "in your face" dances. I have loved lots of low-key dances on Strictly. However, dancing is a very individual thing. How would you describe why you liked Darcey Bussell but not so much her contemporary Viviana Durante (equally technically good)?

Sorry, you've lost me here, I can only really comment on ballroom dances of which I know plenty but know nothing of ballet, although I have seen several.

Just to add that the Waltz should be more low key compared to some dances, it should contain lots of volume and rotation moving around the floor, with plenty of rise and fall ( although I prefer to refer to it as fall and rise), swing and sway. It is an exquisitely beautiful dance.

I have read comments after the weekend of why did Louise not take "risks" and it was dull, boring and bland. I actually replied to the poster asking what "risks" could they have taken. I did not receive a response. The Wow factor, for those that know and are wanting to learn, was in the sheer beauty of the dance, the footwork and quality of movement. I almost think that most on this forum wanted her to throw a cartwheel into it somewhere! An English Watlz is not exciting in that sense, it is not supposed to be, it is just a beautiful dance.

Sorry, I was just trying to draw an analogy with another dance world which also has very strict technical requirements (and trying to make it relate as involves one of our judges!). Despite equal technical capability many loved Darcey and not Vivana because she had the "it" factor (obviously, always a very personal view). Of course, I am not saying that everyone did. However, Darcey was the bigger star.

When I say "placed" I do not think I am talking about the same thing you are. It only applies out of hold for one thing. To me, it's a holding back, a lack of full extension, a carefulness, which I do not enjoy. It's a limit to the expressiveness of the body.

To be fair, though - he doesn't, bless him.
I actually think it's his rather arbitary flummocking about between 'rules' and 'entertainment' that causes some of the problems.
Lifts? Gives notice in week 2 they will not be tolerated.
Week 2+ - not a murmer.
Fudgey footwork? One week, it's OK because the rest was generally OK. The next? no heel leads - collapses sobbing on desk*
No salsa in the salsa? Flips a coin to decide if we're on entertainment or huffy choreography week.
Too much faffing or turning a straight dance into an AS? Who knows - random roll of die.

I actually think its pot luck as to which Len turns up, but people can't be blamed for thinking there is more at play ... and they also can't be blamed for taking what he says with a pinch of salt because what is right one week will be wrong the next.

(* artistic license)

[quote=Toasted Toad;84721565

When I say "placed" I do not think I am talking about the same thing you are. It only applies out of hold for one thing. To me, it's a holding back, a lack of full extension, a carefulness, which I do not enjoy. It's a limit to the expressiveness of the body.[/QUOTE]

That's the ballroom style though, everything placed - lines should be stretched though - no fast jerky movements in Waltz, everything soft. Perhaps Louise doesn't quite extend quite enough in her lines, but I would not expect that for a beginner.
None of the ballroom dances should be out of hold - all 5 should be in full hold, so in real life ballroom, this situation would not arise ie the dancing out of hold.