Actually I do think he judges on the technique first of all - he may not mention it, but when judging the dance, you have to start somewhere, and that is the place to start..
With regards to the faffing, most of the time, the pro's have choreographed a 4 or 8 bar intro ( or whatever) to the music, so the dance is properly phrased. I have no problem with this at all.
Yes I agree they should stick rigidly to the rules, ie no lifts mean no lifts, but hey, this is Strictly...

I think that what you are saying does apply to ballroom and so it is pertinent. The thing about ballroom and latin dancing is that the challenge is to be controlled but expressive at the same time. The control comes through application of correct technique. The expression comes through interpretation of the music (musicality) and expression of your own personality. This is quite important in competitions where there are lots of couples on the floor and you want to get noticed. Not all ballroom and latin dancers are identikit copies of each other. I could give you some examples if you wanted.

So how do you reach that end point? The normal way is to start is through strict application of technique. Practice, practice, practice. Once you've spent time on that and it's in your muscle memory, you can then make it individual to yourself and sell it. (I say all this but I'm still struggling with the former let alone the latter!). On a programme like Strictly there isn't a lot of time to get stuff into muscle memory and so something has to give. It may manifest itself in a slightly more careful but technically proficient performance like Louise's or a less technical, but more audience pleasing performance like Danny's (although Danny is by no means bad technically). There isn't a right or wrong here, because you can't please everyone given the timescales. I wouldn't say it is wrong to prefer Danny (I like him a lot) but neither is it wrong to prefer Louise. It is just that the reasons for preferring the latter may not be apparent to everyone.

That's why it is good to have a thread like this which looks at technique. It acts as another point of view to the other non technical threads and can maybe shed light on what the judges' perspective might be.

Personally Ed was my favourite!

A wonderfully articulate post, Ann. Thanks for that!

Thankyou! Glad it makes sense.

Thanks for the reply.

Talking as a complete and utter novice, my meagre knowledge has been gleamed from listening to the judges from series one and very little else. My issue is they seem to present dance styles in a very certain way - in the earlier series there was a huge push for all but the American Smooth to be danced entirely in 'proper' hold only breaking at the start and end and woe betide anyone drift away from it. I feel, from a technical point of view, the judges are almost becoming a hindrance as much as a help now - for me, someone who's ballroom knowledge is basically from them, they appear hypocritical for slamming a lack of hold previously and now accepting it. Whereas if they commented on the hold and explained the differences, as you and others have done so on this thread, I would understand more and be less predisposed to feel that some things are overlooked whilst others are jumped upon.

That's why I'll be looking here far more often than I have previously as I think this thread has to be one of the best on the Strictly forum if not DS. It gives the overview of the dance rather than focusing on specifics and perhaps that's more important than is sometimes made out.

I do have a concern that the show is slowly sliding towards a Dancing with the Stars approach, where I watch some dances and wonder what on Earth is going on. I prefer the more traditional feel of Strictly and hope that remains, even if competitve ballroom has maybe moved on a bit.

I hope that makes sense and, Jennifer F, I'm glad you're at least staying on this thread even if you have decided not to venture 'out there'.

Glad you like it here and you are very welcome.

I too do not really like the way the show is going, as you say, very much like the showy DWTS and moving away from the roots of Ballroom and Latin.

As for rule breaking re breaking away from hold, i suppose its done too many times now for it to go back to how it used to be and should be. I blame Artem !!

To be fair, I'm not sure if he first started it but he used to do it all the time and rarely if ever got pulled up for it. He was an awful ballroom dancer and rather than have this on display, he danced a great deal out of hold which is far easier.

Most posters on this forum must think that this "style" is ballroom dancing, when it is not. I'm sure this is why we get the continual comments such as " no wow factor " "dull" and "boring" when we see a true and proper ballroom dance.

The ballroom lady should remain, calm, serene and elegant, ready to react to her partner. This is light years away from the type of dancing that I expect most of the forum want to see. But this is true ballroom dancing. It is very powerful, majestic and captivating to watch at top level.

Last week I was in Blackpool to watch the World Professional Ballroom Championships and it was absolutely brilliant to see dancers at the top of their game competing for the World Title. We marvel in what they do, the artistry, musicality, innovative choreography, styling, powerful movement across the floor etc. You would not be surprised to hear that there was no breaking of hold whatsoever, and no jazz hands. It was truly wonderful but I suspect that most of this forum would have been bored rigid.

I saw a clip of a Danish version of Strictly, and what a breath of fresh air it was. the setting was very similar and I think they had a 3 judge panel - 2 of which are World reknowned ballroom coaches - in fact 2 of my friends go to them when they are in Denmark - no backing dancers, no props, proper costuming and music..... and they just danced an authentic dance, no frills. Strictly is a world away from that now, sadly.

Actually, personally every time I hear
'And the story of the dance is ...'
Or
'And we are going to be playing x&y characters'
my heart sinks.

Exactly

I am trying to work out the step Danny is doing at 1.22 of this clip (Saturday's samba).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CABJfSW6MXE

I don't mean the name but the step pattern. It looks like forward step, side step, close, change --- and repeat. Is that what is going on?

Not for all of us. I was transfixed by her feet so much that it wasn't until the third time of watching I noticed her upper body or Kevin. And when I say transfixed, it wasn't the accuracy of footwork that mesmerised me because I don't know the steps, it was the neatness and elegance, the closing of steps, the way she places her foot on the ground so beautifully before it takes her weight.

I loved Oti And Danny's samba and Kevin and Louise's waltz pretty well equally but for absolutely opposite reasons. The samba because it was quite raw and street and the waltz for its refinement.

Running lock with lady's zig zag I think although he's not really doing the lock (that may be deliberate due to it being too advanced) http://m.56.com/view/id-NzQ0MzgyODk.html

Step pattern described here: http://ballroomguide.com/workshop/la..._position.html

As you get more in tune with what you are looking for, you will start to see more at the same time, just like judges do. You will see the footwork and be able to "take in" other aspects of the dance at the same time

Thaks Ann but are you sure you have the right clip?

Lovely post Ann, well done. very enjoyable reading.

Ooer......it must have played on to the next video in the sequence (before I copied it) which looks.....um...interesting I've updated the link now!


Thanks Jennifer!

I did wonder. I thought best not to elaborate. It did look a bit weird didn't it? But that's You Tube for you.

Not so much a question of capability as of desire.

I usually check my links before I post them. :That's a lesson to me!

What I mean is, that you will automatically see more and take in more, rather than have to look for it. I am glad you have a genuine interest though.

An short intro section for Viennese Waltz was/is acceptable. I say "was/is" as it has largely been dropped over the last few years. Most competitors prefer to just take hold and get on with the dance.
Personally, when I danced VW I never liked it, and absolutely point blank refused to curtsy as I found it out of place with ballroom, and slightly demeaning - but that was just my opinion.
The story? VW became popular at the time of Johann Strauss senior. when it was the 'done thing' for couples to curtsy and bow, and I suppose it just sort of stuck.

Conjures up lovely scenes of the old days in Vienna when the ladies danced with their soldiers in uniform. In this dance you don't lower too much as you know Kaycee, and one of our teachers from years ago, told us to imagine my partner as a soldier in uniform, ie he would not be able to lower too much due the the sword fixed to his hip.

I like that idea.

Kaycee, did you not enjoy ballroom or did you feel your latin was much better so decided to concentrate on that ?
I used to do 10 dance but it was so difficult to divide our time ( also double the lessons and double the money !) between the two so we thought it best to concentrate on one of the disciplines.

I'm probably in the minority given both a dance background and my journalistic endeavours, although neither were in 10 Dance, however for me, when I refer to something as a Wow moment it has nothing to do with flashy choreography or adding in a little bit of whatever.

I get a wow moment when a routine speaks to me emotionally and that can be for the good (amazing technical ability accurately reflecting the character of the dance -i.e. an Alesha VW) or for the bad (shocking technique but an amazingly entertaining performance - i.e. a Mark Benson Paso Doble).

The reason I personally find Louise and Kevin to be "beige" is that she hasn't gained the skill to outwardly demonstrate how much she's enjoying what she's doing. I don't blame her for it, it's a definite skill and it comes easier to celebrities who have a performing background. The thing that baffles me about her is that she does have that background. I think in her head she can't get away from being a wife and mum instead of a dancer out on the dancefloor.

She is technically excellent and I absolutely appreciated that in Kevin's routine and how she danced it, her footwork was amazing. Her topline not so much and her face just doesn't give me anything at all.
And I don't mean the over-exaggerated project to the back row that I do see in Professional Ballroom and Latin competitions. I just mean her love of what she's doing shining through.

I have many wow dances, not all of them have been technically good, not all of them had flashy choreography. I loved Jay's showdance last year, simple, understated in the main but demonstrating elements of every other routine he'd performed during the competition - that made it a wow dance for me.

Thanks for your reply, this looks interesting reading but as I am at work, I will need to read later,will look forward to it.
I will quickly reply to one part that I scanned over.
I can speak from personal experience here......
We first have to remember that these dancers only have a week to learn a routine. On top of that, they will have to cram in as much technique as they can to make the dance look as it should. The timescale is the real problem here as they only have a week.
One of our teachers told us that for every hours lesson you have, you need 20 hours hard practice to drum it into the memory muscle.
When you are concentrating on technique to the extent that you have to think about it as you dance, ie you have not practised it enough so its second nature, something has to give. I can see - using Louise as a prime example - Louise really thinking about what she is dancing, and this is why she is technically the best, but at the moment, it is at the expense of the performance factor. At this moment in time, I feel that she is ( rightly as a dancer should) concentrating on the technique to be able to dance well, although to the general public, she looks like she is holding back.
I, as a dancer, love to see someone dance technically well on Strictly, the performance comes second to me but I fully understand why others are not bothered about the technical side and like the good performance. Ideally we can have both at the same time.