Oh I totally understand and agree Jennifer. I always make allowances for the actual inexperience of the celebrity but, for me, finding joy in dance shouldn't be hard even if you're not very good at it

I'd just love for her to match the technical ability with some outward indication on the dancefloor that she is actually enjoying doing it! I think the closest she came was, daft as it sounds, in the Paso where she couldn't actually help breaking into a smile which she quickly corrected as she knew she needed to keep the "face" for the dance

Same as you - it came down to a matter of £££. We simply didn't have enough to keep having lessons in both, plus the additional travelling; nor did we have sufficient funds to provide ourselves with multiple costumes, so we had to make a decision. We both loved the ballroom, but Latin was always our favourite. Plus it had the advantage of I used to make Latin costumes (ladies dresses and men's shirts) so that was a help financially.

We both had the feeling that ballroom was the main course; Latin was the dessert!

What a lovely way to look at it!

You are so fortunate having been able to make your own dresses, saving yourself a small fortune. I wish that l had your talent, I dread to think how much money I have spent on just dresses alone.

When people first learn to dance how long on average are their lessons?
Only asking is that when I started, I had half an hour with a teacher ,found I liked it then progressed to an hour a week - this was in the early days.

If you take this as an example, deduct 4 from the year for say , holidays and suchlike. So in this example, I would have had 48 hours in a year to learn to dance properly such dances as Waltz, CCC, Jive and QS at this stage probably.

So I had perhaps 48 hours in a year...........some of these celebs are probably reaching or nearly reaching this amount of tuition in a week. Also added to that, they are only learning steps and a little technique for one dance that consists of 1.30 or so dancing a set of choreographed steps to a set piece of music.

As the weeks go by, the celebs that put in almost as many hours as my example will have been dancing the equivalent of anything of 10 years upwards in the real world. Only problem with this is that they will not have had a thorough grounding in the basics that we all have had.For the celebs that have enjoyed it, hopefully they will continue with lessons.

I had 1 hr per week private lessons. I now have 3 hrs per week private lessons: Two teaching oriented, one competitive/showcase oriented.

I'm not sure if I could have learnt much using intensive teaching over a short time period. Its usefulness may vary for people though. The problem I find is that if you spend a lot of time doing something in one day, not all the time is necessarily as productive as you get mentally overloaded and physically tired. You need some absorption time to take in the information and try things out yourself. This is where the celebs miss out.

The other area where celebs miss out is adjusting physically to the demands of the dance.. So if you are not very flexible or if you simply have problems holding your arms up and moving, you have less time to develop the requisite physique. Also I think it is difficult to strengthen ankles and legs over this time period, acquire a good sense of balance or remove bad habits. This is why we see not a lot of sway in ballroom, I think and quite weak leg movements, Also I think they lose the 'why' as even if there is time to explain something (e.g why you should step in CBMP) it probably goes in one ear and out the other. However in the real world, remembering the 'why' helps crystallise something in the mind.

All very good and valid points Ann. Yes we will always understand the reasoning S to why we are asked to do something whereas the celebs will have to be told every single thing and not know why. The do fabulously well though, don't they in a week.

Way back when, when I used to cycle for more than getting from a to b, we used to keep training diaries. With the young lads especially, it was a competition to see who could do the most miles - and it took them a while to realise that 'junk' miles just to up the total were really either doing nothing at all or even more harm than good. I do wonder, when training hours are brought into it with Strictly if the same applies? I can remember David Gower in his playing days saying when he was in a good streak of form he didn't want to practice in the nets because he didn't want to waste it on training and train it out - again, I can kind of see the same applying? Certainly as far as the celebs are concerned - when you get it right, stop!

(Also think that really by now, the Never Danced Before arguement tends to weaken. Even with all the limitations and riders of producing facsimiles of dances and just learning routines, they have had 4 months of intensive training from accomplished dancers. Something should be sticking!)

Yes, I think it is like other sports. I think you probably do get junk hours. I think it is not so much that you've got it right, more that the repetition starts to bring less benefit when you are not feeling fresh and more errors start to creep in. Also I think information needs time to settle. So if you spend a lot of time learning about posture say, and then the teacher goes onto another topic, feet say, it is possible for the process of learning the second topic to push out of the brain what you learnt about the first (or at least muddy it). Sometimes some time alone to reflect and try out things is more useful. I wonder if celebs get much time practicing on their own? I would teach an hour and then leave for an hour if I thought the celeb had good self discipline. They might not though. They might just go off for a coffee!

Edit: Ps I think David Gower might have been a bit lazy from what I recall. Now he would have been an interesting Strictly celeb. Such grace as a player; one of my favourites ever.

I can certainly remember in the early days when I was learning, that it got to a point having been fed so much information in lessons, and/or new choreography, that my brain just got overloaded and couldn't take in any more.
As you progress you get used to it and simply absorb it all with no problem. My teacher often referred to me as a sponge as i absorbed up so much information each lesson. It was very handy as when we got to go to practice, I could readily remember everything that we had been taught - whereas my partner didn't so much, but he always came back home after the lesson and wrote up his "notes".

When you are working on things, repetition really is the key to success, to get some thing right ( or better) and ensure it gets in the memory muscle so that's its second nature. I said in an earlier post, that our teachers used to say that for every hour of lesson you need 20 hours of practice to get it bedded in. Not sure if this is entirely accurate as some will "get it" quicker but you get the gist.

When I started dancing it was in a beginners class, which was huge fun, but I wanted more so started having one-to-one lessons as well, but only for half-an-hour. I generally learnt the same steps as in the class, but started learning the correct technique. Dropped the class eventually, and increased lesson to an hour, then an hour-and-a-half - and so on...... When we left the medallist scene for open competitions we realised we needed separate BB & Lat lessons, but could only afford 1 a week, so BB one wk, Lat the next. As we moved up the scale that was simply not enough, and when we turned pro we knew we had to concentrate on one or the other.

I agree absolutely with you about the amount of lessons the celebs get. Also with those of us who dance with a partner, we get 2-3 hours a week (perhaps) with a teacher, then have to practice together, whereas the celebs get to dance all the time with their teachers, they have no idea what it is to practice with someone who only knows as much as they do! And, as you say, they don't really learn any of the dances properly, do they? They simply learn a routine. Ask any of them to dance a basic waltz, cha cha etc with a stranger and they wouldn't have a clue!

Yes you would certainly hope so, ie that something is "sticking" by now...
There are various technical aspects - and perhaps choreography too, certainly in ballroom - that they can carry through from one dance to another in most dances, not the Tango though.

BiB that is something I agree with totally. Sometimes when I was being taught new choreography there'd be things I could just not get. But for some reason, trying it again a few hours or a day later, it would just click.
My coach actually used to say to me "just take it away, you'll get it by tomorrow!" even though he knew I'd not be dancing at all in the meantime. The mind is a strange thing!!!

But not sure it's so essential with the celebs because at all times they are dancing, and can rely on, their professional partner.

I agree with what you say about junk hours. "Practice might make perfect, but only perfect practice makes perfect" is what we were always told, and I say it to my students. And it really can sometimes be a case of less is more.
I have one young couple who only have 1 hour lesson a week, and can only afford 1 practice session, but my goodness do they make it work. They concentrate like mad the whole time, and make every minute count. I've seen other couples have several hours of lessons, practice 4 times a week, and yet somehow do far less work.. I tend to advise my students to practice at different times without actually dancing. Sitting on the bus, for example, or over a cup of tea - think about the routine, and really visualise what it should look like. Once you get that in your mind it is easier to try and dance it.

But of course everyone is different; some people learn very quickly - but often those are the ones who also forget very quickly! - others take ages for something to learn something new, but they're the ones who tend to retain the information.

Quality over quantity every time !

Creative visualisation is the route to success. I dance through our routines - in my mind - ( including the "feel" not just the steps) just sitting down, its almost as good as actually dancing it. Its preparing the mind, therefore body etc, so very important.

Like Kaycee and Jennifer I also practice the routine in my mind, often last thing as I go to bed, or standing on a station platform when I would otherwise be bored. It is very effective and an especially good way of learning complicated choreography , although sometimes people have given me weird looks and so I must sometimes have a daft expression on my face.

I don't ever take notes during a lesson because I am not sure I find reading incremental weekly notes useful. I do sometimes mark up the technique book after the lesson. That said, my teacher said something to me yesterday and I thought 'Wow, that makes sense. didn't realise that!'. Now for the life of me I can't remember what it was! So maybe I do need more notes.

Dancing must be similar to cycling - I used to ride a course once and then ride it in my head. I remember Chris Boardman saying he couldn't remember his kids birthdays but he could remember every gear change of the Tour de France prologue course (Mark Cavendish has literally photographic recall of just about every stage finish he has ever done).

I don't think David Gower was lazy as such, he was just a natural talent who was superstitious about using up all his good form in the nets when it didn't count ... unlike Geoff Boycott who would spend hours grinding down his technique.

Anyway, apologies for derailing the thread - although have found the training stuff very interesting and thinking about transferable skills. I bet Greg and Claudia use the visualisation method almost without thinking about it. Thank you.

Its just something that my partner always has done and likes to do. It wouldn't work for me, I can just remember it all, luckily. He doesn't makes notes during the lesson of course, its once we have driven home, he will sit and think through what he has done, and writes it down. I think that just by doing this, ie just thinking about it, it is making him remember. I am sure it must do him some good although I don't recall the notes seeing the light of day again Still he has me cracking the whip, so no notes needed. !
He doesn't call me "Captain " for nothing...

No worries about de-railing Aggs, you are more than welcome. I'm sure there is a connection to dancing somewhere
If you watch any athlete, before they set off in high jump for example, they are always running it through in their minds, you can see it as they "practice" their jump beforehand.
In ballroom, there are some groups/ variations or steps that we can use in different dances, although they will be danced differently to suit the dance, and the timing will be different. Obviously aside from Tango, the ballroom hold will largely be the same, same goes for the posture and poise. So skills that you learn, not just the steps, can be carried over into another dance.

Hi ballroom/latin people!

I know Kevin and Jo took different routes in their dance careers, but which is the more accomplished sibling?

Tough question Nina, and opinions are going to differ from person to person.

They both are fabulous dancers foremost, teachers and choreographers. However overall I have to prefer Kevin over Jo ( slightly). Even though competing under WDSF rules ( I'm not a fan ), Jo won the World Pro Showdance title, Kevin is my preferred choice..
Kevin choreographs some fantastic routines for his ladies and I beleive is the better all round dancer - only just.....
Interested to hear what everyone else thinks !

Thank you, Jennifer!

I did see a clip of Joanne performing a tango (some sort of showcase) that I thought was very impressive. I haven't seen much of Kevin outside of Strictly.

I wish that Jo had stayed and competed under WDC rules, that is where the Worlds top competitors compete. I really don't like what they allow in the WDSF comps, they do not belong on a ballroom floor. I used to love watching Jo when she competed in the UK with another Italian partner - the atmosphere at Blackpool with the crowd cheering was electric, so loud the "roof nearly came off".

Difficult. As juveniles and juniors they partnered each other, and were probably as good as each other. They had the advantage, of course, of being taught together from a very early age by Dad. Rumour has it that Jo was the bossy one!

When they eventually parted, I was told that Jo wanted to stick to ballroom, and Kevin decided to specialise in Latin so they would not dance against each other, although I think Kevin always had a slight preference for the Latin.

Jo is definitely a great dancer, but like Jennifer, I do not like the dancing they do under the WDSF rules. It's very much bash-n-dash as opposed to the more technically elegant and sophisticated WDC. It's often thought that those who are not good enough to make it to the top under WDC rules, switch to WDSF. Just saying ............................!!

Kevin had some great Latin partners, but decided to leave competition much earlier than Jo, so results wise, it is hard to judge.

When it comes to Strictly, I think Kevin has the edge over Jo when it comes to choreography; he seems to have an instinct for knowing precisely how to get the best out of his celeb partners.

Thank you for the detailed response!

I do agree that Kevin appears to have better choreographic skills.

such a shame there are so few video clips of Kevin when he competed (he stopped before Youtube really took off) but there are loads on Kevin on Burn The Floor and such dancing all over the world - he was in the Broadway production that broke all records dancing alongside many of the USA pros and he always more than holds his own.

Though great dancers and like them both Kev has the edge for me, you can throw any theme at him or odd music and he just gets on with it (as Jo seems to do) he is a great choreographer, think sometimes the cleverness of some of his routines is missed