|
||||||||
Ballroom and Latin American Dance Questions |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#126 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,525
|
Quote:
Same for us Jennifer my brother and my dad always wore shirt and tie etc and my brothers teacher always expected him to wear one for lessons too
|
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#127 |
|
Guest
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,390
|
Whatever! As long as someone is reasonably neat and tidy and has obviously showered, then apart from their teaching ability and knowledge, the most important thing to me is that they are aware of my feelings and are considerate and polite. It is that which wins my respect (in all aspects of life come to think of it).
|
|
|
|
|
|
#128 |
|
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,736
|
Quote:
Whatever! As long as someone is reasonably neat and tidy and has obviously showered, then apart from their teaching ability and knowledge, the most important thing to me is that they are aware of my feelings and are considerate and polite. It is that which wins my respect (in all aspects of life come to think of it).
*curtseys* Ah, what the hell... *hugs Spinny*
|
|
|
|
|
|
#129 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
|
Quote:
OK I'll keep my left cheek rough as a sandpaper just for you Pet
![]() ![]() In answer to the question - for AT shaving or not is entirely your choice. It is my choice whether I dance open or close embrace with each and every partner. So if I were to object to it I could simply choose open embrace. ( I am in any case very picky about who I dance close embrace with), Curiously thought given what I just said I have absolutely no issue with sweat. I assume the sweat is fresh of course. No man (or woman for that matter) can get through a good night dancing in a salsa club without sweating. Some of the guys I know on the salsa scene measure the quality of the night in shirts. A really good night might be described as a four shirter for example. |
|
|
|
|
|
#130 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4,710
|
Quote:
Does hat mean you are going to just shave the right cheek Henry? That will look really odd I feel.
In answer to the question - for AT saving or not is entirely your choice. It is my choice whether I dance open or close embrace with each and every partner. So if I were to object to it I could simply choose open embrace. ( I am in any case very picky about who I dance close embrace with), Curiously thought given what I just said I have absolutely no issue with sweat. I assume the sweat is fresh of course. No man (or woman for that matter) can get through a good night dancing in a salsa club without sweating. Some of the guys I know on the salsa scene measure the quality of the night in shirts. A really good night might be described as a four shirter for example. Hair (sweaty or otherwise) in my mouth though gets a bit awkward. I found four distinct shades of hair on my right shoulder this evening. I must start a collection. Sort of like butterflies. I got a milonga to play this Morna https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfyqQwoFPLY I did a milonga to it - It got very sweaty ... But slow emotional (very) close embrace dances can be much more draining than fast ones. |
|
|
|
|
|
#131 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,525
|
Quote:
Whatever! As long as someone is reasonably neat and tidy and has obviously showered, then apart from their teaching ability and knowledge, the most important thing to me is that they are aware of my feelings and are considerate and polite. It is that which wins my respect (in all aspects of life come to think of it).
|
|
|
|
|
|
#132 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10
|
Quote:
Reverse fallaway into slip pivot, can be hard to learn, and for me its all about the timing, not just the timing itself, but timing between you and partner.This is how I was taught. On 3rd step of fallaway ( on right foot) just think of (quickly) closing to partner on the slip, then you will be in closed position to slide your left foot forward to pivot.
If you keep your head in closed position through the fallaway, you only then need to close the body and then you are in a beautiful closed position to pivot. |
|
|
|
|
|
#133 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,525
|
Quote:
Thanks Jennifer, my wife and I struggle with the fallaway into a reverse slip pivot. You had us trying this last night in the lounge, not the ideal floor or footwear but we hire a hall Monday nights with another couple and will practice this tonight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#134 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10
|
Thanks, I'm always being told to dance through the lady instead of around her, once i get that mastered, things should feel better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#135 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4,710
|
Quote:
Thanks, I'm always being told to dance through the lady instead of around her, once i get that mastered, things should feel better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#136 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
|
Quote:
Wow that's helpful. I can visualise it. Not all the time of course.
The idea is to stop the lead stepping out of the frame on the 3, 4 and 5 so ending up offset. But I am sure you can see that getting this discipline down early is invaluable later when it comes to sacadas (displacements). As you know in these it is fundamental to replace the ladies foot print at the precise moment she leads it to create that illusion of kicking her foot out of the way. |
|
|
|
|
|
#137 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4,710
|
Quote:
Yes we teach it like that too Henry. A classic and early (in terms of the learning journey) is positions in 3, 4 and 5 leading the lady into the cross in Argentine Tango. As the lead should express his intent and wait for the lady's foot to be in motion before moving his own, the notion of dancing through her makes complete sense. She will have gone by the time you reach where she was.
The idea is to stop the lead stepping out of the frame on the 3, 4 and 5 so ending up offset. But I am sure you can see that getting this discipline down early is invaluable later when it comes to sacadas (displacements). As you know in these it is fundamental to replace the ladies foot print at the precise moment she leads it to create that illusion of kicking her foot out of the way. |
|
|
|
|
|
#138 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
|
Quote:
Precision and timing is vital in sacadas - especially back sacada which I have not tried at a milonga. Interesting that you call it a displacement rather than the more literal removal..
|
|
|
|
|
|
#139 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
|
Can I ask a question of ballroom aficionados please? Be gentle with me because I am not sure exactly how to ask it.
The question is informed by a number of things. The first is that people I meet in salsa or AT who also take ballroom classes seem to attend ballroom tuition as couples. In fact having a dance partner seems to be a requirement. I get the impression therefore that it is taught to a couple as a couple dance. Salsa and AT are also couples dances but most teachers actively discourage a couple from dancing exclusively together. We rotate partnerships throughout the class where I assist with AT teaching. The reason we do this is because we are trying to teach the skills of lead and follow and communicating in the body language germane to the dance. This is the teaching target. Figures and steps are merely vehicles used to teach the leading and following. If people only ever dance with one person they develop their own idiosyncratic language or worse just develop set pattern routines irrespective of the music. What we try to avoid is to turn out students who only slavishly follow patterns. The other thinking comes from the comments I read on here from advanced ballroom dancers. I get the impression that medals and competition seems to be a focal point for ballroom dancers more than social dancing. I am therefore wondering if the art of lead and follow is part of the teaching for this level. Or indeed if those that have studied for medals etc ever go dancing socially. The impression I think I am getting is that there are two ballroom worlds. One is social ballroom and the other that of medals and competition. Although it appears the dances are the same and have the same steps etc but otherwise they could almost be seen as two separate activities. Put me straight will you please folks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#140 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4,710
|
Quote:
It was for the benefit of non AT dancers reading the thread Henry. It felt to me that the word displacement better illustrated what a sacada was. Where removal simply translates the word but doesn't give the uninitiated much help to envisage the step. Hopefully the word displacement and the comment about appearing to kick the ladies foot out of the way will enable anyone to picture the step in question.
I have only just realised that Boleo = Voleo coming from Volar (fly) rather than Bola (ball). |
|
|
|
|
|
#141 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4,710
|
Quote:
Can I ask a question of ballroom aficionados please? Be gentle with me because I am not sure exactly how to ask it.
The question is informed by a number of things. The first is that people I meet in salsa or AT who also take ballroom classes seem to attend ballroom tuition as couples. In fact having a dance partner seems to be a requirement. I get the impression therefore that it is taught to a couple as a couple dance. Salsa and AT are also couples dances but most teachers actively discourage a couple from dancing exclusively together. We rotate partnerships throughout the class where I assist with AT teaching. The reason we do this is because we are trying to teach the skills of lead and follow and communicating in the body language germane to the dance. This is the teaching target. Figures and steps are merely vehicles used to teach the leading and following. If people only ever dance with one person they develop their own idiosyncratic language or worse just develop set pattern routines irrespective of the music. What we try to avoid is to turn out students who only slavishly follow patterns. The other thinking comes from the comments I read on here from advanced ballroom dancers. I get the impression that medals and competition seems to be a focal point for ballroom dancers more than social dancing. I am therefore wondering if the art of lead and follow is part of the teaching for this level. Or indeed if those that have studied for medals etc ever go dancing socially. The impression I think I am getting is that there are two ballroom worlds. One is social ballroom and the other that of medals and competition. Although it appears the dances are the same and have the same steps etc but otherwise they could almost be seen as two separate activities. Put me straight will you please folks. ![]() I get asked: "What foot are you going to lead off on?" "I haven't decided yet" I reply. They often expect to be led through a set sequence. I improvise as do most AT leaders. I could never remember an SCD 90 second dance (less 30 seconds for faffin abaht) . |
|
|
|
|
|
#142 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 16,124
|
Quote:
A segue from me would be to say that it quite awkward to lead an experienced Ballroom Tango dancer in Argentine Tango.
I get asked: "What foot are you going to lead off on?" "I haven't decided yet" I reply. They often expect to be led through a set sequence. I improvise as do most AT leaders. I could never remember an SCD 90 second dance (less 30 seconds for faffin abaht) . ![]() ![]() On the rare occasion I have had to learn a routine I have to learn it so well that it is thoroughly internalised and I can feel it without having to think about it. That process just takes me such a long time that it is fairly impractical. |
|
|
|
|
|
#143 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4,710
|
I see dancing as Dressage - lead and follow. [I hope that doesn't sound rude].
If the leader's message is unclear then the follower's reaction can be anything. But that said I have a comfort blanket GoTo follower for a relaxed pulling out all the stops dance. Just heard that the point of a three song tanda is for the first song to get to know each other's dancing and the other two songs to just dance. |
|
|
|
|
|
#144 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,196
|
I suppose every teacher has their own style of teaching - but will answer your question from our experience.
Definitely two secions within the ballroom world competitive and social and would class medals in social side in our school all our competitors do not bother with medals on the whole we leave it to personal choice and we also have loads of dancers who just come to dance and do not compete or take medals. As you say the dances are the same and basic technique is the same but the competitve side (apart from novice ) have advanced routines and style. There are vastly more social dancers than competitors and we would not be still open if we just had just competitve pupils (and think that would apply to many many schools) - there are hundreds and hundreds of events on the social side each week on the dance scene besides the thousand of classes running in schools up and down the country and it is a vital important side of the dance world Not all social dancers stick to a rigid routine which they learn in class, many come to learn new groups to add to what they do when out on the social scene - the importance of remembering a set routine is really only important to the competitor or those taking an examination (medal) |
|
|
|
|
#145 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,434
|
Quote:
A segue from me would be to say that it quite awkward to lead an experienced Ballroom Tango dancer in Argentine Tango.
I get asked: "What foot are you going to lead off on?" "I haven't decided yet" I reply. They often expect to be led through a set sequence. I improvise as do most AT leaders. I could never remember an SCD 90 second dance (less 30 seconds for faffin abaht) . Not possible in Latin as most dances (competitive dancers) will not be in hold of any sort, which is one of the reasons Latin dancers tend to have routines. |
|
|
|
|
|
#146 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,434
|
Quote:
Can I ask a question of ballroom aficionados please? Be gentle with me because I am not sure exactly how to ask it.
The question is informed by a number of things. The first is that people I meet in salsa or AT who also take ballroom classes seem to attend ballroom tuition as couples. In fact having a dance partner seems to be a requirement. I get the impression therefore that it is taught to a couple as a couple dance. Salsa and AT are also couples dances but most teachers actively discourage a couple from dancing exclusively together. We rotate partnerships throughout the class where I assist with AT teaching. The reason we do this is because we are trying to teach the skills of lead and follow and communicating in the body language germane to the dance. This is the teaching target. Figures and steps are merely vehicles used to teach the leading and following. If people only ever dance with one person they develop their own idiosyncratic language or worse just develop set pattern routines irrespective of the music. What we try to avoid is to turn out students who only slavishly follow patterns. The other thinking comes from the comments I read on here from advanced ballroom dancers. I get the impression that medals and competition seems to be a focal point for ballroom dancers more than social dancing. I am therefore wondering if the art of lead and follow is part of the teaching for this level. Or indeed if those that have studied for medals etc ever go dancing socially. The impression I think I am getting is that there are two ballroom worlds. One is social ballroom and the other that of medals and competition. Although it appears the dances are the same and have the same steps etc but otherwise they could almost be seen as two separate activities. Put me straight will you please folks. ![]() |
|
|
|
|
|
#147 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4,710
|
Quote:
It doesn't matter what the dance is, providing it is in hold of some kind, the follower should know which foot the leader is going to move first by the position of the leader's body i.e. Body weight, etc.
Not possible in Latin as most dances (competitive dancers) will not be in hold of any sort, which is one of the reasons Latin dancers tend to have routines. Interesting that you say most Latin dances are not in hold. |
|
|
|
|
|
#148 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4,710
|
Quote:
I will PM you
|
|
|
|
|
|
#149 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Posts: 4,710
|
A number of AT and Salsa schools have an end of term demonstration routine. I don't get involved. I prefer to lead a dance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#150 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,525
|
Quote:
Thanks, I'm always being told to dance through the lady instead of around her, once i get that mastered, things should feel better.
The lady will always dance out of your way when she is in front and will dance around you in figures such as this. As said in a previous post, it seems obvious but you must slip, then pivot. If you try and do it at the same time, you end up turning ( left) away from the lady, who still has to pivot around. The important thing to remember is that you stay to your left within the frame and the lady must stay to her left, even though turning to her right. Once you slip and the lady has timed her closing action to this, she needs to step forward quite powerfully to pivot round, you both pivot together. This is quite complex so I really would suggest, try once or twice but don't change anything without speaking to your teacher. This is a variation that can be taught in a few different ways, and its a case of what works for you.Its a great help in the fallaway, if the lady ensures her right side is kept in, you don't want to be too open in any promenade positions. |
|
|
|
![]() |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 15:04.







