Ballroom and Latin American Dance Questions

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pabird

30-11-2016

Originally Posted by kaycee:
“Same as you - it came down to a matter of £££. We simply didn't have enough to keep having lessons in both, plus the additional travelling; nor did we have sufficient funds to provide ourselves with multiple costumes, so we had to make a decision. We both loved the ballroom, but Latin was always our favourite. Plus it had the advantage of I used to make Latin costumes (ladies dresses and men's shirts) so that was a help financially.

We both had the feeling that ballroom was the main course; Latin was the dessert!”

Agree with all the :dancers: are saying and some 50 yeaars ago we went through all those same riuals/problems but there is one other issue many of us had to consider
We had reached the stage of winning and moving forward/upward at a rate such as making the evening at the international etc etc and various dance articlers had us as a couple for the future
This meant we had a decision to make 1- 100% commitment or 2_ start a family all very fulfilling and romantic but competitive dance is full time night shift
We decided to invest our future in family and have never experienced regret
Sons. daughters in-law and grandaughters
No regrets

kaycee

30-11-2016

[quote=bendymixer;84745762]such a shame there are so few video clips of Kevin when he competed (he stopped before Youtube really took off) but there are loads on Kevin on Burn The Floor and such dancing all over the world - he was in the Broadway production that broke all records dancing alongside many of the USA pros and he always more than holds his own.

Though great dancers and like them both Kev has the edge for me, you can throw any theme at him or odd music and he just gets on with it (as Jo seems to do) he is a great choreographer, think sometimes the cleverness of some of his routines is missed[/QUOTE]

I would agree completely with the bib.

I heard (or maybe read) a comment that he seems to have "calmed down a bit" this year with his choreography. Some people don't seem to realise that the calm and elegant choreography he gives Louise just would not have suited Kellie last year, and he adjusted his choreography to match his celeb partners.

kaycee

30-11-2016

Originally Posted by pabird:
“Agree with all the :dancers: are saying and some 50 yeaars ago we went through all those same riuals/problems but there is one other issue many of us had to consider
We had reached the stage of winning and moving forward/upward at a rate such as making the evening at the international etc etc and various dance articlers had us as a couple for the future
This meant we had a decision to make 1- 100% commitment or 2_ start a family all very fulfilling and romantic but competitive dance is full time night shift
We decided to invest our future in family and have never experienced regret
Sons. daughters in-law and grandaughters
No regrets”

We still have the same decisions to make. I think this is one reason why pro dancers often decide to quit competing fairly early, so they can have a family. Amateurs are slightly luckier in that they can give up for X number of years, and, at 35yrs of after, then return as seniors; regrettably pro dancers haven't that option, though, of course, there is teaching, choreographing etc.
Possibly though, one advantage for todays' dancers over those of 50 yrs ago is that it is now much easier to start a family at a later age.

Jennifer_F

30-11-2016

[quote=kaycee;84746243]

Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“such a shame there are so few video clips of Kevin when he competed (he stopped before Youtube really took off) but there are loads on Kevin on Burn The Floor and such dancing all over the world - he was in the Broadway production that broke all records dancing alongside many of the USA pros and he always more than holds his own.

Though great dancers and like them both Kev has the edge for me, you can throw any theme at him or odd music and he just gets on with it (as Jo seems to do) he is a great choreographer, think sometimes the cleverness of some of his routines is missed[/QUOTE]

I would agree completely with the bib.

I heard (or maybe read) a comment that he seems to have "calmed down a bit" this year with his choreography. Some people don't seem to realise that the calm and elegant choreography he gives Louise just would not have suited Kellie last year, and he adjusted his choreography to match his celeb partners.”

Completely agree 100 per cent.

Mystical123

30-11-2016

Originally Posted by kaycee:
“When I started dancing it was in a beginners class, which was huge fun, but I wanted more so started having one-to-one lessons as well, but only for half-an-hour. I generally learnt the same steps as in the class, but started learning the correct technique. Dropped the class eventually, and increased lesson to an hour, then an hour-and-a-half - and so on...... When we left the medallist scene for open competitions we realised we needed separate BB & Lat lessons, but could only afford 1 a week, so BB one wk, Lat the next. As we moved up the scale that was simply not enough, and when we turned pro we knew we had to concentrate on one or the other.

I agree absolutely with you about the amount of lessons the celebs get. Also with those of us who dance with a partner, we get 2-3 hours a week (perhaps) with a teacher, then have to practice together, whereas the celebs get to dance all the time with their teachers, they have no idea what it is to practice with someone who only knows as much as they do! And, as you say, they don't really learn any of the dances properly, do they? They simply learn a routine. Ask any of them to dance a basic waltz, cha cha etc with a stranger and they wouldn't have a clue!”

And it's even more difficult for those of us dance who currently don't have a partner and are not in a position to take more lessons than currently - practising alone can be useful, but generally I find it difficult to see how much I actually gain from it.

Jennifer_F

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Mystical123:
“And it's even more difficult for those of us dance who currently don't have a partner and are not in a position to take more lessons than currently - practising alone can be useful, but generally I find it difficult to see how much I actually gain from it.”

Obviously it is more beneficial if you have partner, but for now you can do quite a bit of practice and it will be beneficial as all practice will be.

There had been times when I had no partner but still practised alone. Practice. All t he things thAt you have learned in your lessons, you can never practice your technique enough. I used to spend lot of time practising all my basic Latin actions, rumba walks, cha lock steps, samba volta's etc.You won't improve if you don't practice. Virtually everything you are given in a routine, you should be able to dance on your own as you should be on balance. Of course if there are drop lines in rumba foe example, that is a different matter.

Depending on how experienced you are, you may find ballroom a little more tricky to dance through a routine properly alone, however it should be done if you can as everything you dance must be on balance, you as lady are responsible for your own balance and your own movement. PractIce any basic waltz or foxtrot concentrating on your footwork, rolling through the feet going forwards and backwards......heels, balls, toes. And toes, balls ,heels, releasing toes . Having beautiful feet in ballroom is one of the best assets you can have, your ballroom will have a quality about it.

Practice driving from your standing leg too - any of this type of quality prActice is invaluable. Even having a partner, I will spend time prActising alone so I can concentrate on improving my own actions first before I dance with him.

Do you practice what we call the waltz box exercise? I practice this even now. Great for practising every aspect of waltz -and on your own - do it in hold and add swing and sway when you feel able to. If you are unsure of what this excise is, please let me know and I will explain. I hope this will help a little. Apologies for poor typing and predictive text but I'm having to use a small tablet at the moment.

hannah 01.

01-12-2016

Sorry if this question has been asked and answered but--

How many lifts are allowed in---???
American Smooth
Argentine Tango
Lindy Hop
Salsa

I guess the point would be between the real dancing world and Strictly Come Dancing land.

Jennifer_F

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by hannah 01.:
“Sorry if this question has been asked and answered but--

How many lifts are allowed in---???
American Smooth
Argentine Tango
Lindy Hop
Salsa

I guess the point would be between the real dancing world and Strictly Come Dancing land.”

I believe that there are 3 lifts allowed in American Smooth but cannot comment on the other dances, I'm afraid. Hopefully someone else will know.

An Thropologist

01-12-2016

It would appear that on Strictly marks are knocked off in salsa and Argentine tango if the feet actually touch the floor.

In real AT and salsa lifts are rare and confined to show dances only when the couple have the floor/stage to themselves. You try and do a lift in the ballroom and see how popular you are and how many other dancers you injure in the process.

Ellie_

01-12-2016

Can't really comment on any of them not dancing those styles myself but as far as I know in real world american smooth style competitive dancing (eg dancing all at the same time with a number on the gents back and judges watching you) there are no lifts. There are steps which are out of hold but not lifts.

On strictly AFAIK it's 3x lifts per dance.

btw jennifer - thank you for answering my question about the VW curtsy intro! I'm going to watch out at my next medallist comp and see if the couples do it or not.

Jennifer_F

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Ellie_:
“Can't really comment on any of them not dancing those styles myself but as far as I know in real world american smooth style competitive dancing (eg dancing all at the same time with a number on the gents back and judges watching you) there are no lifts. There are steps which are out of hold but not lifts.

On strictly AFAIK it's 3x lifts per dance.

btw jennifer - thank you for answering my question about the VW curtsy intro! I'm going to watch out at my next medallist comp and see if the couples do it or not.”

Are you dancing ? If so, I would recommend that you don't do the intro, it looks far more professional to be confident, get into hold and get away quickly

Ellie_

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“Are you dancing ? If so, I would recommend that you don't do the intro, it looks far more professional to be confident, get into hold and get away quickly”

I'm in u35 pre bronze so we never get VW at this level

. Pretty much guaranteed waltz or quickstep with the occasional tango. Would be great to have more varied dances but u35 seems to be such a ridiculously hard age category to be in I don't have a burning desire to compete in a higher category right now even if I've got a fair few silver, gold and variation steps under my belt.

Might get it in couples since I think I'll be dancing with a silver/gold partner next year so will bear in mind if and when that happens!

Thanks for the advice!

Jennifer_F

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Ellie_:
“I'm in u35 pre bronze so we never get VW at this level . Pretty much guaranteed waltz or quickstep with the occasional tango. Would be great to have more varied dances but u35 seems to be such a ridiculously hard age category to be in I don't have a burning desire to compete in a higher category right now even if I've got a fair few silver, gold and variation steps under my belt.

Might get it in couples since I think I'll be dancing with a silver/gold partner next year so will bear in mind if and when that happens! Thanks for the advice!”

Don't feel disgruntled, use the time you have whilst in lower grades to really brush up on your technique etc. It will pay dividends in the long run. I can really say from experience, don't be in a rush to dance the more advanced steps until you have a good grounding of technique under your belt. The old saying really is very true, it ain;t what you do, its the way that you do it. Good technique really is the foundations of good ballroom and latin dancing.

When I first started dancing, i was lucky and my teacher found me a partner very early on. I too was Pre Bronze dancing with a partner that was in the Above Gold category.
We used to win all the latin competitions and do fairly well in ballroom. Latin was my first love and I always did well at that as , at the time, i did not "get" ballroom and didn't like it so much. however, that was all to change

kaycee

01-12-2016

In Strictly land I think 3 lifts are allowed in American Smooth; in the real dance world none are allowed and would lead to disqualification.

AT - Strictly? As many as you like, I think. Real world - I didn't think it was any lifts as such but 'jumps' where the lady might appear to sit on the man's hip is sometimes seen. Possibly also depends on what sort of comp event it is.

Lindy Hop - not danced in Strictly; none the real world.

Salsa - no idea in Strictly; none in the salsa clubs.

Basically, anything where more than one couple is on the floor, lifts are banned; but there events for Showdance, when there is only one couple on the floor, lifts can be used.

Cadiva

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“Tough question Nina, and opinions are going to differ from person to person.

They both are fabulous dancers foremost, teachers and choreographers. However overall I have to prefer Kevin over Jo ( slightly). Even though competing under WDSF rules ( I'm not a fan ), Jo won the World Pro Showdance title, Kevin is my preferred choice..
Kevin choreographs some fantastic routines for his ladies and I beleive is the better all round dancer - only just.....
Interested to hear what everyone else thinks !”

Totally agree with this. I think Kevin is a superb choreographer who always seems to get the most out of his celebrity partners irrespective of their style or ability.

Ellie_

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“Don't feel disgruntled, use the time you have whilst in lower grades to really brush up on your technique etc. It will pay dividends in the long run. I can really say from experience, don't be in a rush to dance the more advanced steps until you have a good grounding of technique under your belt. The old saying really is very true, it ain;t what you do, its the way that you do it. Good technique really is the foundations of good ballroom and latin dancing.

When I first started dancing, i was lucky and my teacher found me a partner very early on. I too was Pre Bronze dancing with a partner that was in the Above Gold category.
We used to win all the latin competitions and do fairly well in ballroom. Latin was my first love and I always did well at that as , at the time, i did not "get" ballroom and didn't like it so much. however, that was all to change”

I don't feel too disgruntled luckily as my teachers are good at pitching the difficulty of my private lessons. U35 can be such a blood bath competitively with all the ex junior dancers (of which I am not one!) - the standard of even the social dance test category at blackpool this year was insane - I'd really much rather focus on refining the steps and basic principles that I know while learning a smattering of new steps to keep things fresh.

I think my teachers just see enough potential in me that they want to prepare me for any future eventualities when it comes to partners and different circuits etc.

I do wish we got slightly more varied dances at pre pronze though. If we're all meant to be competing with about a 3-4 years worth of experience on the circuit why not give us foxtrot or VW, or a rumba or paso doble? It's still a fair fight, in theory. I can understand keeping it simple in social dance test so you don't alienate new potential competitors but after a couple of years surely you know how to do all the dances pretty competently?

Jennifer_F

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Ellie_:
“I don't feel too disgruntled luckily as my teachers are good at pitching the difficulty of my private lessons. U35 can be such a blood bath competitively with all the ex junior dancers (of which I am not one!) - the standard of even the social dance test category at blackpool this year was insane - I'd really much rather focus on refining the steps and basic principles that I know while learning a smattering of new steps to keep things fresh. I think my teachers just see enough potential in me that they want to prepare me for any future eventualities when it comes to partners and different circuits etc.

I do wish we got slightly more varied dances at pre pronze though. If we're all meant to be competing with about a 3-4 years worth of experience on the circuit why not give us foxtrot or VW, or a rumba or paso doble? It's still a fair fight, in theory. I can understand keeping it simple in social dance test so you don't alienate new potential competitors but after a couple of years surely you know how to do all the dances pretty competently?”

When you get a partner, i would certainly venture out on the open circuit. You can dance in whatever grade you want to ( as long as you don't win too much and have to go up !). I can imagine your frustrations at having to do the same dances, but luckily for me, because I had a partner, we started doing the Above Gold medallists event at comps bit we also went out and danced Opens. If you do get your partner early in the New Year, have a go at Stars of the Future, something to aim for. Of course there are comps every week all over the place. Plenty to choose from.
Just out of interest, I wonder why you are still at Pre bronze level after 3 or 4 years ? I had done all that and was bronze in a few months? perhaps you can speak to your teacher and jump up a level or two?

bendymixer

01-12-2016

just a bit of light relief

do any of you know Adrian churm - he is a teacher used to compete in ballroom and latin till a knee injury cut his competing short very well known for line dancing choreography these days

ha getting his leg pulled a lot for looking a bit like rinder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxF_wPjJfk0

Cadiva

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“just a bit of light relief do any of you know Adrian churm - he is a teacher used to compete in ballroom and latin till a knee injury cut his competing short very well known for line dancing too now

ha getting his leg pulled a lot for looking a bit like rinder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxF_wPjJfk0”

What did I just watch?!?!

bendymixer

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Cadiva:
“What did I just watch?!?! ”

ha ha but he does look like Rinder doesnt he ? (he was demonstrating a line dance btw)

Cadiva

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“ha ha but he does look like Rinder doesnt he ? (he was demonstrating a line dance btw)”

He absolutely does yes. It was the bum thrust out backwards at the end of the first opening sequence that made me go WTF!

Jennifer_F

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“ha ha but he does look like Rinder doesnt he ? (he was demonstrating a line dance btw)”

Just brilliant, thanks Bendy.

Ellie_

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“When you get a partner, i would certainly venture out on the open circuit. You can dance in whatever grade you want to ( as long as you don't win too much and have to go up !). I can imagine your frustrations at having to do the same dances, but luckily for me, because I had a partner, we started doing the Above Gold medallists event at comps bit we also went out and danced Opens. If you do get your partner early in the New Year, have a go at Stars of the Future, something to aim for. Of course there are comps every week all over the place. Plenty to choose from.
Just out of interest, I wonder why you are still at Pre bronze level after 3 or 4 years ? I had done all that and was bronze in a few months? perhaps you can speak to your teacher and jump up a level or two?”

That's the way it works on this circuit right now AFAIK. You can spend at most two years per level and then move up. My teacher asked me if I wanted to jump up after blackpool but considering I had a bit of a bad one I'd rather stay where I am another year and she supported my decision. I generally do well at each regional competition and have come first a few times - but not every time, it's not a given to make a final. If I was finding it a complete breeze and winning easily I'd want to move up to a more competitive category but pre bronze is still tough enough at U35. I think if I was in a different age category I'd be more up for accelerating through the ranks.

Jennifer_F

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Ellie_:
“That's the way it works on this circuit right now AFAIK. You can spend at most two years per level and then move up. My teacher asked me if I wanted to jump up after blackpool but considering I had a bit of a bad one I'd rather stay where I am another year and she supported my decision. I generally do well at each regional competition and have come first a few times - but not every time, it's not a given to make a final. If I was finding it a complete breeze and winning easily I'd want to move up to a more competitive category but pre bronze is still tough enough at U35. I think if I was in a different age category I'd be more up for accelerating through the ranks.”

Lots of time to get lots of practice in. I really will keep my fingers crossed for you, so that you do get a partner, it will make it that much more enjoyable.
If we don't "speak" again, good luck this weekend !!

Ellie_

01-12-2016

Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“Lots of time to get lots of practice in. I really will keep my fingers crossed for you, so that you do get a partner, it will make it that much more enjoyable.
If we don't "speak" again, good luck this weekend !!”

Aww really appreciate that Jennifer! I am so so so enjoying my dance journey and have had many varied experiences with it from medalist comps, to performances, to showcases to partnering one of my teachers in her high level pro exams. Always looking to expand my experiences with dance so appreciating the crossed fingers on my behalf as I'd love to get that partner who will do open circuit with me!

No comps until mid Jan now sadly (or happily since I need to get my XMAS shopping under control LOL) but I'll keep the good luck with me until then.

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