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Ballroom and Latin American Dance Questions |
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#1651 |
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I would just like to echo everyone else in thanking Jennifer for starting and maintaining this thread. I think those people who dance seriously all have different perspectives and I fully respect this. For example kaycee and Jennifer have a serious in depth competitive background which nearly all of us lack and which is very relevant to Strictly. Bendymixer has a wide experience of different dance genres and of teaching those. There are also people who compete frequently on the uni or medallist circuits who also bring a different perspective. It is really nice to see all of this in one thread.
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#1652 |
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Yes just wanted to echo my Thanks and appreciation for such an interesting thread- and I'm quite new to it haha!
Another question I wanted to ask regards changing partnerships. Is it quite acrimonious between couples if they split and then start competing against each other or is it all quite professional and treated as just a job? And what makes a couple split up? Is it lack of connection, different abilities etc? I ask because I think I heard on ITT that Chloe and AJ have been dancing together for 10 years so was wondering if a couple have danced together that long (and presumably know each other really well etc) what would make them split and how do they progress separately etc? Thanks!!! This happens when both dancers are of a very high standard, assuming they gel together, once the choreo is in place - which these dancers will pick up in an instant - they are good to go. Couples split for a number of reasons ( and they don't always get on with each other), perhaps one wants to stop competing or one or the other believes the partnership has gone as far as it can go in terms of success. Both dancers then announce the spilt and advertise for a new partner. I have known of couples splitting when one dancer has decided to dancer with his/her real life partner who also dances. |
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#1653 |
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Competitive partnerships often break up, some after a short while and some couples that have been together a long time. Dancers such as AJ and Chloe ( because you mention them) would have no difficulty normally dancing with another dancer, assuming the tryout was successful. I have known top level competitors having only been together 3 or 4 weeks, having reached finals of International level competitions after such a short time together.
This happens when both dancers are of a very high standard, assuming they gel together, once the choreo is in place - which these dancers will pick up in an instant - they are good to go. Couples split for a number of reasons ( and they don't always get on with each other), perhaps one wants to stop competing or one or the other believes the partnership has gone as far as it can go in terms of success. Both dancers then announce the spilt and advertise for a new partner. I have known of couples splitting when one dancer has decided to dancer with his/her real life partner who also dances. So does that mean that a really top partner almost auditions different people to be their partner like almost a job interview or is it more a mutual thing? The other interesting thing is about some dancers not getting on. That to me seems quite bizarre, not that I'm doubting you of course! I had always imagined that partners must be really close and friendly as they must spend so much time together training, travelling, competing etc. I don't think I could spend so much time with someone I didn't like on a personal level. Sorry...another question I've just thought of! Do you think it's harder if the dancers do get on really well and are really close or do you think it's better if they are a bit more distant with each other and treat each other as colleagues, not so much friends/partners etc. Thanks for your reply btw! This is so fascinating! |
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#1654 |
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Excellent choreography from Kevin, full of Tango content and in full hold throughout.
For improvement..., I did notice some toe leads, a little rise and fall -not required in Tango- and a little skippy. Her head position needs attention and eyes downward unfortunately. The mistake caused her to lose her frame at the end which was a shame. Louise has a fantastic feel for dance and timing. She could have been more grounded into her knees and used her standing leg more, and created more foot pressure into the floor but I'm being picky. Overall very good, loved it . |
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#1655 |
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Well I am no ballroom expert but that looked like a very clean QS to me. His footwork looked damned fine.
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#1656 |
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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Ore QS - very good overall, certainly not easy choreography but a little repetitive ( in my opinion), but effective. Ore has a good frame mainly but I feel there needed to be more stretch and better shaping in some of the groups. It was light and looked relatively effortless, he seemed to keep on the balls of feet quite well. Timing a little suspect in places and they were out of sync in a couple of places. Understandable bearing in mind the different timings, and foot speeds. He needs to relax into his legs and use his feet into the floor more, but again I'm being picky.
I actually loved the music and didn't think I would, but the costuming, the routine and their "attitude" was brilliant. Great work Jo, stepped it up here. |
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#1657 |
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WOW, Danny Mac...what a performance, I was riveted all the way through. Must go back and watch again. It was wonderful. Such innovative choreography, clever girl Oti.
There was just one area where Danny was a bit ungainly but the rest of it makes up for it. Seemless and smooth transitions, in and out of hold. The only celeb that I haver seen dancing naturals in the correct way, never mind that there were no reverses, the beautiful way he danced the naturals with linear swing and drive, more than makes up for it. The only area that kept drawing my attention was his topline and head position. I feel his head was not correctly positioned and he needs to project outwards. And that leap / catch at the end....outstanding and so brave. Brilliant. |
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#1658 |
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Great routine by AJ, great movement - this was a competitors routine.
There was slight gapping but you can forgive that as its not easy not moving around, turning constantly. Claudia kept up so well and she was very light on her feet. Slight concerns with her body position and head position but it was really very good overall. Certainly was not an easy routine for Claudia to learn. Well done |
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#1659 |
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Quote:
Great routine by AJ, great movement - this was a competitors routine.
There was slight gapping but you can forgive that as its not easy not moving around, turning constantly. Claudia kept up so well and she was very light on her feet. Slight concerns with her body position and head position but it was really very good overall. Certainly was not an easy routine for Claudia to learn. Well done |
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#1660 |
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I absolutely loved that quickstep. I've been a bit meh about Claudia and AJ, but that really won me over. I think it is because I love that style of QS. Not that keen on lots of promenade runs in other QSs. I prefer to see lots of turn and sway.
QS after all is a swing dance, I prefer intricate footwork too, danced in closed hold. promenade runs are fine in limited doses, but not my favourite.
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#1661 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Great night of dancing tonight.
Thought they all did themselves proud and danced at a standard that is beyond the average beginner. Stand out for me was Claudia Fragapane - it was a beautifully choreographed QS and she coped extremely well, especially taking into account the height difference. I think she's been a ballroom girl since the beginning tbh. Always much preferred her ballroom to her latin. Her rumba tonight wasn't my favourite. There were elements I enjoyed but I'd rather see a simpler routine with more solid feet, legs and hips.Really surprised how much I enjoyed Ore's QS too. I have a weird downer on that song but the theme,, costumes and performance absolutely sold it. He did Jo proud.
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#1662 |
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Great night of dancing tonight.
Thought they all did themselves proud and danced at a standard that is beyond the average beginner. Stand out for me was Claudia Fragapane - it was a beautifully choreographed QS and she coped extremely well, especially taking into account the height difference. I think she's been a ballroom girl since the beginning tbh. Always much preferred her ballroom to her latin. Her rumba tonight wasn't my favourite. There were elements I enjoyed but I'd rather see a simpler routine with more solid feet, legs and hips.Really surprised how much I enjoyed Ore's QS too. I have a weird downer on that song but the theme,, costumes and performance absolutely sold it. He did Jo proud. ![]()
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#1663 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Thanks for the reply, really interesting.
So does that mean that a really top partner almost auditions different people to be their partner like almost a job interview or is it more a mutual thing? The other interesting thing is about some dancers not getting on. That to me seems quite bizarre, not that I'm doubting you of course! I had always imagined that partners must be really close and friendly as they must spend so much time together training, travelling, competing etc. I don't think I could spend so much time with someone I didn't like on a personal level. Sorry...another question I've just thought of! Do you think it's harder if the dancers do get on really well and are really close or do you think it's better if they are a bit more distant with each other and treat each other as colleagues, not so much friends/partners etc. Thanks for your reply btw! This is so fascinating! Generally speaking, it is necessary for partners to get on well as they spend a huge amount of time together; sometimes it will seem like 24/7. If they are amateur, they will probably have day jobs, but professional dancers may well work together teaching. Evenings will all be taken up going for coaching, practising, competing in the UK or abroad; basically if you're not dancing together, then you're probably travelling together. |
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#1664 |
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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WOW, Danny Mac...what a performance, I was riveted all the way through. Must go back and watch again. It was wonderful. Such innovative choreography, clever girl Oti.
There was just one area where Danny was a bit ungainly but the rest of it makes up for it. Seemless and smooth transitions, in and out of hold. The only celeb that I haver seen dancing naturals in the correct way, never mind that there were no reverses, the beautiful way he danced the naturals with linear swing and drive, more than makes up for it. The only area that kept drawing my attention was his topline and head position. I feel his head was not correctly positioned and he needs to project outwards. And that leap / catch at the end....outstanding and so brave. Brilliant. |
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#1665 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,283
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Ore QS - very good overall, certainly not easy choreography but a little repetitive ( in my opinion), but effective. Ore has a good frame mainly but I feel there needed to be more stretch and better shaping in some of the groups. It was light and looked relatively effortless, he seemed to keep on the balls of feet quite well. Timing a little suspect in places and they were out of sync in a couple of places. Understandable bearing in mind the different timings, and foot speeds. He needs to relax into his legs and use his feet into the floor more, but again I'm being picky.
I actually loved the music and didn't think I would, but the costuming, the routine and their "attitude" was brilliant. Great work Jo, stepped it up here. |
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#1666 |
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Looked to me like his left arm was constantly going up and down (not talking about moments of attempted sway). That's not supposed to happen, is it?
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#1667 |
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Jennifer just one question... do you agree with the judges scoring louise's samba 36 and Claudia's Rumba only 35??
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#1668 |
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I agree with everything you say, it was a great dance though some reverses would have been good. But I didn't see it as an American Smooth so much as a VW (which he'd done before) with added lifts. But as you say, that leap / catch was outstanding. Oti is very brave.
Theres something I can't put my finger on, but I find that a lot of Dannys leg and foot work is a little ungainly at times, in whatever dance he is doing. |
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#1669 |
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Jennifer just one question... do you agree with the judges scoring louise's samba 36 and Claudia's Rumba only 35??
I have enjoyed Louises dances up until now and I felt it was her weakest performances yet, when in the semi you want to peak - to get into the final. I would have awarded Claudia higher marks than Louise in both her dances tonight, based on the dances today.(My opinion of course) |
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#1670 |
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Scores aside, I felt that Louise had a weak night. She was unfortunate to have 2 difficult dances this week in Samba and Tango, both notoriously difficult for beginners.
I have enjoyed Louises dances up until now and I felt it was her weakest performances yet, when in the semi you want to peak - to get into the final. I would have awarded Claudia higher marks than Louise in both her dances tonight, based on the dances today.(My opinion of course) |
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#1671 |
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It was felt like because Claudia is a gymnast she supposed to dance perfectly like professionals to get higher score... but I think her scores was fair... it just the other been over-marked little bit... I think the 8 from Craig was really harsh.
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#1672 |
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Scores aside, I felt that Louise had a weak night. She was unfortunate to have 2 difficult dances this week in Samba and Tango, both notoriously difficult for beginners.
I have enjoyed Louises dances up until now and I felt it was her weakest performances yet, when in the semi you want to peak - to get into the final. I would have awarded Claudia higher marks than Louise in both her dances tonight, based on the dances today.(My opinion of course) I agree about the samba though. It's a tricky dance, although I still prefer it to cha cha and jive! I agree about Louise. Quite disappointing. |
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#1673 |
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Hi Jennifer. I'm not convinced Tango is that difficult for beginners. There's no swing or sway. No rise and fall. Placement of foot rather than gliding action is easier for most people. The footwork used in the backward walks and some other steps is slightly different admittedly, although I think most viewers would miss the finer points ( e.g use of inside edge of foot) and just be satisfied if heels are used going forward. I think the most difficult aspect to manage is the delay in moving the stepping foot/leg. Because of the difficulty with the latter it can be difficult to bring it up to performance level, I guess. So maybe easier to learn to pass a medal test but difficult to perform.
I agree about the samba though. It's a tricky dance, although I still prefer it to cha cha and jive! I agree about Louise. Quite disappointing. I mean that Tango is a difficult dance, to dance well. You only have to look around the comp scene and watch the lower grade dancers. In theory I agree, it should be easier with the lack of swing, sway and rise and fall but I think the reality is not quite the case. Even at our standard, Tango was the one dance we always had to work really hard at, all the time, to keep it up to the standard of the other dances. If for some reason, we were unable to, the results for that dance would always show - being taller didn't help though.I think because dancing into your knees feels so alien to someone that has not done it before, not skipping whilst dancing syncopated timing, or chasse actions......that are always danced incorrectly. As lady, when you dance in the normal ballroom hold, you feel as though you have more freedom in your space but of course, with the compact hold, you do feel more restricted and its more difficult for the lady to maintain her position, posture and poise. In PP, staying behind the mans right hip, not opening your right side also feels quite odd to someone starting out. I don't think Louise's Tango was overly bad but its a shame she allowed herself to lose her posture and poise. Even if Kevin was dancing with a strong right arm, she should not have allowed that to influence what she was doing. Always a feeling of opposition....she allowed herself to go with him rather than stay in her own space. This particularly important during the chasse actions plus pressure into the floor and use of standing leg. With the Samba, the one thing I noticed above all others was the lack of emphasis on the timing, this is why it looked all one paced. But to be fair, she has danced all the other dances so very well, not every dance will suit everyone, she was just very unlucky to have landed 2 dances that did not suit her. Of course, they had 2 dances this week so half the training time. |
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#1674 |
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Yes, I think those are fair points Jennifer. I thought that was probably what you meant about Tango. I do agree that the hold feels very compact and constrained at first.
I agree about her Samba. She had nice movement but it looked quite pedestrian which I agree was probably down to the lack of sharpness in the timing now that you mention it. |
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#1675 |
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I agree about the samba though. It's a tricky dance, although I still prefer it to cha cha and jive! |
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