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Old 22-10-2014, 18:01
Jennifer_F
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Hi Alex! Are you going to start sneaking some pivots in so he has to teach us?!



Jennifer, how does this differ from the lead into a natural spin turn? Thanks.
The lead should be the same. At this point, by the lead described above, you are simply instructing the lady that there is a turn of some description as you are inviting her to come forward and past you. Is then up to you what you then decide to do, pivot or spin turn, but this is the lead into them.
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Old 22-10-2014, 18:36
Fallaway r
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This thread is a godsend! Thank you so much for setting it up - it's really interesting but also so helpful.

I have a question about ballroom topline - I'm told the correct way to do this is to contract your stomach muscles and tuck in your bottom - is this right? Should I try to lean back at all? (I'm a girl btw).
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Old 22-10-2014, 19:05
AlexR!
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Hi Alex! Are you going to start sneaking some pivots in so he has to teach us?!
Thinking about it, Tangos. Will need to practice at home first, and then maybe he'll feel compelled to correct the inevitable resulting disaster. That said he puts up with our chicken walks. Perhaps there's just too much work required...

Jennifer, thanks for all the clarification. Now I don't want to hijack the thread, but will just have to work out how to exit, or it'll be a rather tedious (and tiring) 3 minute dance for us both.
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Old 22-10-2014, 19:13
Jennifer_F
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This thread is a godsend! Thank you so much for setting it up - it's really interesting but also so helpful.

I have a question about ballroom topline - I'm told the correct way to do this is to contract your stomach muscles and tuck in your bottom - is this right? Should I try to lean back at all? (I'm a girl btw).
I was taught to have a " long back" and "short front" so yes, you are correct, and keep posterior under. Please do not lean back, as you will be out of balance, not only will you not be able to dance yourself, you will feel like a ton weight to your partner. In simplistic terms you want a right side to right side connection, then feel that you stretch - not lean- to your left, and out to the mans right elbow. If your partner connects to his left, you will have a lovely topline, in balance with volume between the heads,
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Old 22-10-2014, 19:15
Jennifer_F
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Thinking about it, Tangos. Will need to practice at home first, and then maybe he'll feel compelled to correct the inevitable resulting disaster. That said he puts up with our chicken walks. Perhaps there's just too much work required...

Jennifer, thanks for all the clarification. Now I don't want to hijack the thread, but will just have to work out how to exit, or it'll be a rather tedious (and tiring) 3 minute dance for us both.
One simple way to exit pivots is overturned turning lock.
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Old 22-10-2014, 22:47
An Thropologist
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Just to explain a bit about AT Milongas which have been discussed - for those perhaps unaware.

"Milonga" has two meanings. It is a social dance as well as a style of music and dance within Tango.

Tango has three styles - Tango, Milonga and Vals (Waltz)

A social dance can be a Milonga or a Practica (practice) . Some places have a Milonga and a Practiica room on the side for practice and trying out steps with a partner.

In Milonga no instructions or suggestions are made or appreciated during the dance. In fact no conversations during the dance.

Milongas come as a series of Tandas - groups of three or four songs broken by a Cortina (curtain) of random music to clear the floor and change partners.

No "thank you" after each of the songs in the Tanda as that means "You are a rubbish dancer and I'm off in the middle of the Tanda".

No Salsa or Merengue demonstration is permitted if the Cortina happens to be Salsa or Merengue music ...

Traditionally there is the "Cabeceo" by the leader to invite a seated follower to dance - basically eye contact and response with a positive smile or a negative looking away or nowadays into the smartphone.

On music here is Tango. Smiling is strictly forbidden during a Tango dance.

http://youtu.be/3TMO2wbXVwg?t=30s

Milonga. Smiling is allowed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4G03HpzArc

Vals. Not sure if smiling is allowed during a Vals. Maybe just a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2edMx_jGHs

I am sure Anthro will correct me on much of the above ...
Sadly I do have to agree that is the social etiquette pertaining to much of the AT scene. Social mores plucked from another country and another century.

Why? - God only knows.

For the record I think it is utter bo**ocks . I have been unable to unearth any good reason for these affectations and IMO they are very much to the detriment of AT as a social activity and act as a barrier when it comes to encouraging 21st century people into the community. I subvert the rules as often as I can. For example - I ask men to dance.
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Old 22-10-2014, 22:59
henrywilliams58
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The reason for the Cabeceo is to not embarrass both parties if the leader goes over and gets rejected. Mutual smiles of recognition indicates acceptance of the invitation.

The Three song Tanda is to get to know each other's style and then a couple of good dances together.

And you have to wait for a slot in the anti-clockwise Ronda (circle line of dance). Entry to the circle (rectangle) is by permission and only at one of the four corners.
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Old 22-10-2014, 23:20
Ellie_
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I don't think I'm cool enough to go to a milonga, haha. Smiling is forbidden? Ok I know it doesn't look good but do you get blacklisted for it or something?
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Old 22-10-2014, 23:22
An Thropologist
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[
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QUOTE=henrywilliams58;75311939]The reason for the Cabeceo is to not embarrass both parties if the leader goes over and gets rejected. Mutual smiles of recognition indicates acceptance of the invitation.
I do two dances regularly and obsessively. One attracts huge numbers of people on a regular basis and has a wide range of dances up and down the country including week nights. The other serves a relatively small clique of people and has a huge drop out rate. One adopts a friendly, embrace all-comers and dance with pretty well anybody and everybody (unless they are gropers or dangerous.). The other is, to use your word bitchy, and adopts a series of nods and winks to make rejecting other people less uncomfortable for the rejecter. (I imagine the rejectee feels just as rejected if he is close up or on the other side of the room).

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The Three song Tanda is to get to know each other's style and then a couple of good dances together.
The three song tanda has some value because traditional tango tracks are short, often not much more than 2 minutes. You need to dance three to make it worth standing up. I do observe the three dance rule because not dancing the second or third would be akin to walking off the dance floor mid song in salsa. I would never do that without a very good reason. However the first song may let you get to learn each others style and then enjoy two more dances or it may just tell you that the guy has no style or has say a rough lead so you grit your teeth and prepare to plod around the room or get manhandled for two more dances.

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And you have to wait for a slot in the anti-clockwise Ronda (circle line of dance). Entry to the circle (rectangle) is by permission and only at one of the four corners.[/quote]
No issues with this. Sharing the dance floor means some rules are just good sense, LOD for example. So giving way to dancers on the floor is reasonable and not part of the etiquette that bugs me.

Last edited by An Thropologist : 22-10-2014 at 23:26. Reason: Trying to undo a format mistake - unsuccessfully
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Old 22-10-2014, 23:29
An Thropologist
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I don't think I'm cool enough to go to a milonga, haha. Smiling is forbidden? Ok I know it doesn't look good but do you get blacklisted for it or something?
Not as such People will be looking down their noses and whispering behind their hands. Imagine a Jane Austen style ball, got the picture .
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Old 23-10-2014, 01:03
henrywilliams58
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There are also different rooms for modern music and traditional (i,.e. old and scratchy) music. The trad folk don't like more than one tanda of modern stuff. They'll use that to go to the loo.

I was at this milonga a year ago. Stills but you can get a good feel for it. Modern music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgZoE_CIT9E
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Old 23-10-2014, 13:52
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Blindfold, that reminds me of the burn the floor routine we saw, although this was choreographed, this is it on youtube, you may recognise some of the dancers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4j9-2AYWhQ
Interesting! Think I saw that routine live.

I've danced a lot of AT in the past with eyes closed ( don't do AT nowadays). Also have danced ballroom tango with hip contact and no arms.

Generally I find following a Latin lead in social dancing easier than Ballroom ( Samba excepted - have never danced social Samba or Paso, whatever that might be!)
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Old 23-10-2014, 14:00
An Thropologist
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Interesting! Think I saw that routine live.

I've danced a lot of AT in the past with eyes closed ( don't do AT nowadays). Also have danced ballroom tango with hip contact and no arms.

Generally I find a Latin lead and social dancing easier than Ballroom ( Samba excepted - have never danced social Samba or Paso, whatever that might be!)
I have often wondered if there is such a thing as a social Paso. I can't quite imagine it. As for social samba - I guess you need a carnival to follow!
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Old 23-10-2014, 14:04
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I believe Paso started as a social dance in France. Social samba I have seen on cruises. Usually not very pretty although wouldn't want to generalise.
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Old 23-10-2014, 14:18
bendymixer
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I have often wondered if there is such a thing as a social Paso. I can't quite imagine it. As for social samba - I guess you need a carnival to follow!


here ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnUoeUmg-4s
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Old 23-10-2014, 14:46
henrywilliams58
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That looked dangerous. No traffic management rules it seems.

I have been to a few weddings where they have danced Sevillanas - not the same as Paso I know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJbk2bNnZU0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8fpYIuwxcw

or just find a space in a bar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38TmYBfgNGM
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Old 23-10-2014, 14:55
henrywilliams58
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One of my favourite followers was told not to stick her bum out so much dancing AT. I love the look of bums sticking out.

What is the panel's view on the follower dancing with an arched back and so sticking her bum out in Argentine Tango?

Something like this at 4:05

http://youtu.be/FgZoE_CIT9E?t=4m5s
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Old 23-10-2014, 14:58
bendymixer
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great stuff love spanish music and the dancing they do
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Old 23-10-2014, 15:03
bendymixer
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question for Jennifer F and Kaycee did you see ITT last night? and Ian's remarks on Jake's quickstep ??? no one seems to have picked up on it elsewhere - but he did say that the beginning of it was not right and the technique was wrong - which of course is down to Janette - wonder what is wrong with it ?

think she will produce a Burn The Floor quickstep full of trot and charleston - which thinking about it is what Karen did
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Old 23-10-2014, 15:16
Jennifer_F
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question for Jennifer F and Kaycee did you see ITT last night? and Ian's remarks on Jake's quickstep ??? no one seems to have picked up on it elsewhere - but he did say that the beginning of it was not right and the technique was wrong - which of course is down to Janette - wonder what is wrong with it ?

think she will produce a Burn The Floor quickstep full of trot and charleston - which thinking about it is what Karen did
No I did not see it unfortunately, that comment from Ian sounds very interesting ! I would love to see the clip if there is one ?
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Old 23-10-2014, 15:22
henrywilliams58
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No I did not see it unfortunately, that comment from Ian sounds very interesting ! I would love to see the clip if there is one ?
Janette comes from a Salsa background. Has she danced a reasonable Ballroom? As a great dancer she should be able to pick it up.
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Old 23-10-2014, 15:29
JDarcy
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Janette comes from a Salsa background. Has she danced a reasonable Ballroom? As a great dancer she should be able to pick it up.
I've got to admit I didn't think her posture looked quite right in their waltz (then again I'm an absolute beginner when it comes to ballroom so I could be completely wrong, but to me something just looked slightly off)
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Old 23-10-2014, 15:32
Jennifer_F
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Janette comes from a Salsa background. Has she danced a reasonable Ballroom? As a great dancer she should be able to pick it up.
Janette is not very good at Ballroom, and it does take a long time to hone skills and technique. She is better than she was last year, so she is improving.
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Old 23-10-2014, 15:36
Jennifer_F
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question for Jennifer F and Kaycee did you see ITT last night? and Ian's remarks on Jake's quickstep ??? no one seems to have picked up on it elsewhere - but he did say that the beginning of it was not right and the technique was wrong - which of course is down to Janette - wonder what is wrong with it ?

think she will produce a Burn The Floor quickstep full of trot and charleston - which thinking about it is what Karen did
Just had a quick look on the BBCiplayer and it is a quick/short clip. Ian of course has had the benefit of watching it in full. From what I can see at the basics at the start, for me there is a timing issue, and the rise and fall is in the wrong place, as Ian said. Jake is dropping out of the first Q too fast and should still be on toes on both Quicks, to lower before the next slows. There is no smoothness, very stilted , up on toes then dropping like a brick.
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Old 23-10-2014, 15:46
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At least he has a rise and fall this time even if it is in the wrong place (which admittedly may not be Janette's fault except he is starting from zero not having done it properly in waltz).
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