I don't like it Henry. Aesthetically it breaks the line which I find unappealing. It also suggests to me that the core isn't engaged which I would have thought would give the lead all sorts of transmission problems. Finally it must hurt her back mustn't it?

TBH I don't know if my bum sticks out or not rarely having seen myself dance tango. I would be surprised if it didn't. I would have to adopt Paso lines to keep it totally in line with my back and legs (its quite big ). I also have slight natural (acquired probably) lordosis. So I imagine a sticky out bum is likely. I am conscious of it when doing volcadas which I think is a trust/unwillingness to commit issue. However when we do volcadas in class I often have a sore back afterwards.

think the problem is not in the clip shown but at the beginning he said so eyes glued sat

Yes, quite possibly, but the first few steps on the clip are basic, albeit not danced well but you can make them out. Will watch with interest!

OMG I so want to do this. As a vista it looks slightly messy but I bet it feels fantastic.

when we have social dances at the school floor always fill for paso never see many bumps

I guess sticking the bum out for AT is a matter of choice, however, whatever the dance the back should never ever be arched. It is dangerous and can lead to terrible back problems.

I can see why, it looks like a lot of fun. I see a lot of smiling people in that clip and I can see why. Bumps can be quite sociable to if handled with good humour.

Now about this social samba..... Looking on the net it appears you stick feathers in your hair and knickers, throw your top off, paint on a big smile and follow the band: I think I will opt for the social paso option.

hahaa much tamer and calmer than that although this is in a USA dance school not unlike what our social dancers do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDmFsipQZAc

I don't think I could follow the lead. . I am learning a paso routine to the same music (not surprisingly Btw anyone know any good versions which include a proper intro?). It's got fully choreographed highlights etc. but we've not discussed lead and follow. Don't know how it works. Can't see that it would have the push/pull hand connection of most Latin or the hip to hip connection of Ballroom. Can anyone clarify? Kaycee, Bendy, Jennifer? I can ask my dance teacher anyway I guess.

Well actually I guess it would be led through push /pull and use of hand, arm and body movement thinking about it. Maybe not that different to other Latin?

Interesting question. I would like to know that too. I have a few friends who dance Flamenco and it appears they either dance pre-learned routines or it is totally interpretive - ie freestyle. Mostly they dance alone but sometimes a man and a woman dance together, although not in hold that I have seen. I wonder how they communicate within that partnership. ( I will ask)

Yes, we have quite a few bits where we are not in hold or touching at all, including a flamenco style part (off syllabus). Great fun, but not led.

Wow, I love the social samba and paso clips, they both look great fun!

Thanks very much Kaycee and An Thropologist for the thoughts about learning to follow well. Only thing is, in swing dancing the hold is far looser and more open than ballroom, with the contact mainly between the lead's right arm and the follower's back/left arm, so I can't quite envisage how you could make those types of training tips apply in this scenario. (Hope that makes sense!)

Am hoping to try a social dance soon, as I suspect that is where and how you really learn... Agree with the others who have said they are a bit scary though, especially to start gong on your own. wish me luck

LOL no I can see trying to keep a balloon in place while swing dancing would be beyond challenging.

I guess the hold for swing is akin to that of salsa. Its a long time since I learned to salsa and I have never really tried to deconstruct the hold. I do vaguely remember as a beginner being told ye leads to increase/decrease the tension in my arms. It never seemed to be quite right. I don't get told off by the guys for this now so I guess at some point along the way I learned to adjust to each new partner without having to think about it.

Haha, yes indeed!

I think that's bang on - so much of it is just learning to adjust quickly and "get the feel for it". My teachers are fabulous and even with their explanations there is still a significant element of "go with the flow", which the analytic part of my mind finds a bit frustrating... but that is probably why it is good for me

Has this weeks dances generated any thoughts or questions, technical or otherwise?

I'd like to talk about the man's ballroom hold. Specifically Steve, Jake and Simon.

I still don't know a lot about the technicalities of the leader (I think I might learn the lead steps once I've completed my exams to understand more). However I thought Steve was much improved last night, but for some reason Jake's posture, although good, still looks a bit uncomfortable to me and Simon (again good) had a droopy left arm. I wonder if any improvement in the posture of the latter two is hampered by the height difference with their partners?

NB I don't have a big thing about height. For example, I thought Allison's comments about towering over Alijaz were silly. It should be possible to dance with a male partner of the same or slightly less height and display a nice big hold and some very successful competitors have had a slightly tall woman.

Also, was Brendan making Sunetra look better than she was, as one of the judges suggested? If so, how? Presumably, if this was the case, this would have given her an advantage over Simon say in the VW?

Yes, without question, Brendan as the male pro will always make his lady look good, and in this case, better than she is. As a pro ( and a good pro) he will have the best topline, will keep her where she needs to be in the frame - not in the case of experienced dancers. More importantly, compared to the celeb men, he will always be in the correct position to instigate any group, therefore ensuring that Sunetra will be. Fab dancing by Brendan. No-one seems to comment on the incorrect footwork which I do find strange. VW is a technical dance with few variations, so it is important to get the footwork and technique right. It is quite complex in VW so possibly this is why it is always overlooked.

It is always much harder for the male celebs as the overall look of the couple will look "weaker" compared against the couple, where the pro is male.

Good idea to learn the mans steps....I can dance all our dances as the man, quite happily, with correct technique and styling.

With height difference, the ideal is that there is not much height difference, which means that the couples centre of gravity will be at the same level, making it easier. Experienced dancers can cope with a big height difference.

Thanks. I don't always see all the footwork in the VW (except whether they close feet and whether the cross is there), since it is so fast. Notice it more in Latin.

Just watched Jake again on iPlayer and his posture is much much better than I remembered and there are also more QS steps than I remembered. Also there are quite a few height disparities this year. Anton is quite a bit taller than Judy, and same with Brendan and Sunetra, but of course you don't notice it with them as Anton and Brendan can hold the frame. Jake and Janette have a big shoulder height difference (I was told by someone that's what really counts, not the overall height difference).

Jake does look awkward to me. His head is in the wrong position plus I suspect Janette has told him to lift his chin, which has resulted in him having his head in a back weighted position. His left arm position ( joined hands) is too low. His left arm should be more at 45 deg, but looks almost flat, joined hands are too low also. Shoulders are too high, creating a stiff look. His right elbow is too low also.
I do realise that he is a beginner of course, but he needs to relax the frame, it should never be stiff, only toned.

[quote=Spin turn;75353538]Thanks. I don't always see all the footwork in the VW (except whether they close feet and whether the cross is there), since it is so fast. QUOTE]

There are certain steps that you take on the toe to move onto the ball, and the heel must not be lowered. Some steps are brought in on a flat foot and some are ball, to lower. Fleckerls are always non exisitent for the celebs, very difficult, so usually turns into a type of standing spin with contra check half way through.

Great thread, really interesting. Thank you all.

We have quite a big height difference when we dance, just over 6ft to 5'3. I seem to remember Kristina's had a few partners with quite big height differences.

Brendan's dancing looked wonderful last night and they looked like they were really moving across the floor.

I thought Brendan and Sunetra were amazing and under marked in my opinion. Best dance of the night for me, followed by Kevin and Frankie.

Ha Jennifer you said exactly the same as my brother - he said Brendan was the pro and the routine of the night he really appreciated how Brendan did that routine to make his PARTNER (Ivetta take note) look good and when she flagged a little towards the end he propped her up he also really liked Kevins foxtrot routine Frankie just needs to sort the clunky feet out. Also thought all the other top five were good too

He thought on a whole the show improved a bit this week. He reckons the producers are using the CFD cd's to pick their music having used quite a few from them his series - trouble is these cd's are compuerised to make tiiming right sometimes the band does not get it quite right

My parents have big height difference (5ft 6 to 6ft 4) never bothred them too much Ian Waite's best comp partner Melanie Walker was quite a bit smaller https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MOrvBsXAP0 and matthew and nicole had quite a height diff too

I thought Simon & Kritina's VW looked scappy & disjointed.
Did Kristina take her eye of the ball with her choreography or did they just dance it badly?


Sunetra & Brendan's VW was gorgeous & imo really showed S &K's up.