They're dreadful but get a free pass because of their looks.

I have noticed this. It's madness. I would much rather watch someone normal looking who is a decent actor than watch an actor with the charisma of a cardboard cut out because society deems them 'hot'.

Though there are the likes of Declan Bennett who is pretty damn easy on the eye but is also a decent actor.

She had an essence of Pat about her. I liked her.

Ugh, they're all as bad as one another, in terms of acting, with Liam being a much more enjoyable character, Liam acts older than Lee and is more mature than Lee, and he has genuine chemistry with Cindy, they're a nice little young couple, and both attend a secondary school, they're a different little age group, which is important for a soap. Lee and Titney, are dull AF.

I think when Dyer does eventually leave, Elaine will take over the reigns with or without Linda.

Acting is subjective. Beauty is also in the eye of the beholder.

Ben Hardy might be beautiful but he is also a very good actor in my opinion. The scenes he had after Lucy's death most notably the one in the market and the funeral speech were outstanding. Danny Boy is terrible in comparison. One of his early scenes with Stan and Mick where he broke down and spoke of his friends death was so shockingly bad I thought I was watching something other than EastEnders.

I think she has Pat's life experience behind her but with the family loyalty of Pauline Fowler thrown in for good measure. She is built like the classic EE characters of old.

I didn't get the idea of Shirley being a sole landlady, it was more on the terms if Elaine joins them Shirley will be out and Elaine will have the share. Mick and Linda's place and landowners are safe. I don't want Shirley to leave but if tosh doesn't leave at the end of the abuse story then Shirley will have no where to got really. Although come to think of it now, she could become involved in the Denise story?
The reveal of the Shirley/mick should be before Elaine's full return if she comes back as a regular. It's why I'm hoping Elaine is going to be recurring

Shirley will never be sole landlady. The only reason the Carters got the pub is because its Danny Dyer. They are built around him. He goes and they all fall apart. There is also nothing to stop the next EP axing Shirley. DTC might favour her but who is to say the next producer will feel the same? Louise Berridge and Matthew Robinson are the perfect examples of an EP who thinks drastically different to the previous one. Even Brian Kirkwood binned a hugely popular character in Heather.

I also don't understand the criticisms of Ben Hardy. He's proved his acting chops on more than one occasion, it's just he plays a somewhat unlike-able character. His treatment of Lola, his childish attitude towards Lauren and Dean and his often flippant behaviour towards Cindy Jnr and Ian have made him kind of irritating at times. But I don't think that should take away from Hardy's portrayal of the character who on the whole has been very good.

The less said about Tyler Moon, I mean Callum Monks, I mean Anthony Moon...sorry Lee Carter, the better!

I like Ben a Hardy and his portrayal of Peter.

Which by coincidence resulted in Shirley being reduced to the status of extra for just over a year. Linda also said she nearly quit as a result of that.

Well, yeah. I was more thinking, the best of a bad bunch. I don't really think Liam is a more enjoyable character, I find him quite dull. I find that they have little expression.


Even if that happened, I don't think it would mean that Shirley will have to leave. She could have set up a home on the square and still work at the Vic, or she could continue living there.

Why would Shirley leave if Tosh didn't? She has loads of places to go, with Mick after the reveal, the aftermath with Dean, if Andy comes to the square, possible Carly return and stories with the Carters. Like you say she also has friends on the square so there is the possibility of her being involved there too.

I think Mick/Shirley reveal is at Christmas so it will be before Elaine becomes a full time character. I think she would be better as a recurring character. But I do like her.


With that s/l they did really well to alienate Shirley from everyone really. I think it was a mistake making Ben the killer of Hev and having Phil and Jay involved. I'm glad Shirley has been revived and Linda Henry didn't leave.

Stan will be long gone by the time Elaine joins full-time.

It could be that some financial disaster will hit the Carters and to help them out Elaine sells her Watford pub and in effect 'buys' the Vic - meaning HER name goes over the door instead of Shirley's. Mick and Linda would still live there and work the bar.
Shirley would be shown the door and told to find her own home, and possibly Nancy will be spreading her wings and moving in with whatever boyfriend she has at the time.

the carters are built around shirley? DTC quite clearly said he was building a family around shirley whe he decided to bring them in

No I know what I said. They are built around Danny. He is the name, he is the star. That's why he is in The Vic. 70% of the storylines the Carters have had so far have all been to show that Danny, the star, is acting against type. Mick is running the show. Not Shirley.

Would they really go to the effort of introducing Mick, Linda and the rest of the Carters and fleshing out their characters if it was all a ruse to make Shirley landlady. Highly doubtful. You can tell on Twitter how much affection DTC genuinely has for these characters.


There's nothing the Mitchells can do about it without landing themselves in it.

Like Cora is under DTC!