Ell said that Babe manipulated Shirley into leaving and the show had Shirley as very reluctant to leave because of Dean and how he had just started to trust her again. No one mentioned the rape

Shirley is an awful woman and dreadful mother who has ruined her kids and the lives of others who have got close to her. That is just the way it is.

Carly and Mick aren't ruined, far from it. Same with Tina who she was also a mother to. Dean was damaged by his prison experience, pure and simple. Even without Shirley he had been brought up in a loving family.

As for other people, she didn't ruin Ben, Jay or Phil's lives, it was the other way round. Not satisfied with ruining Shirley's life once Phil did it a second time by using her to punish Sharon. I'm glad she put a bullet in him, even if it was by accident. If Shirley goes down for it I hope she takes Phil and Sharon down with her.....possession of a firearm without a licence is a serious offence.

While I agree with you that possession of a firearm is an illegal offence, Sharon kept hold of the gun for protection. She didn't mean to keep it to harm other people. She was attacked in The Albert and was visibly shaken. But at least Sharon has finally acknowledged that keeping the gun was her own fault that Phil got shot and that's why she hasn't dobbed Shirley to the police. Ronnie is also responsible because it's her gun. Shirley accidentally shot Phil and she feels bad about it which is why she ran away.

Shirley didn't ruin Ben or Jay's life but she almost ruined Denny's life by having an affair with Phil. I know she loves Phil and wants a future with him but Phil is Denny's "surrogate" father. I feel sorry for Denny more than Shirley

Phil is the only one responsible for hurting Sharon and Denny. Shirley was bound to jump at the chance of being with the man she loved...he lied to Shirley and led her on, knowing full well how much she loved him and that she would do anything for him . She was a mug to believe him.

Philth never pays for his mistakes - ever.

And he destroys people's lives deliberately not by mistake.

The man is a scumbag of the lowest order and I find TPTB total worship of him bizarre.

Mick doesn't know he is her son yet. I have a feeling devastation will result from that reveal and why hasn't Shirley she told him yet Preposterous except it's Shirley hiding from her responsibilities as ever 'roll eyes'

However if any of Shirley's kids are doing okay that is despite Shirley as she abandoned them didn't she.

Shirley bullied Heather and used her death to wallow in self pity. She had information regarding Heather's killing but she decided to use it to blackmail Phil and to hold over him rather than help to get justice for her best friend. Even then she would rather get her leg over with Phil than ever make him face up to any responsibility for his actions.

She has the temerity to look down her nose at Linda and Sharon. She abuses Linda regularly knowing that her son loves her and knowing that Linda has always been there for her son. Tut tut Shirley is a disgusting woman who will nerve face up to anything and who it appears will never be forced to

This.

Last I checked Aunt Babe didn't shoot Phil. That's the reason Shirley is on the run and it's her own doing. Just before she shot Phil he reminded her about Dean and all she would lose but she told him it's his fault and shot him anyway. The excuses trotted out for Shirley have started to grate. It's like she can do no wrong. Oh her fans will admit she's flawed and she was wrong to do what she did but it's always someone else's fault. Poor Shirley is never accountable for her own actions. To be fair the writing backs her up in that regard. I don't even know why Sharon was in the Everybody Hurts trailer. The writers depicted Shirley as the victim. Not Sharon. Not even Phil who actually ended up in hospital with a bullet in him. Nope. He was asking about Shirley in the next episode and actually referred to her as a victim. When will Shirley pay for her mistakes? Never. The writers won't have it.

Poor Shirl.

Shirley just shot the man she wants to be with, he rejected her, she lives with guilt about her children, she smokes like a chimney and drinks herself to oblivion, often sleeping on a bench in the Square. Not many like her, she walks around with a scowl, she hates her life and sleeps every night with the knowledge that she did all of this herself without one really good thing in her life. She has no money, carries secrets, and is gut-wrenchingly worried that she'll go to prison.
She's paying...

Shirley is an adult and of course is responsible for her own actions, I merely meant that at that time Shirley was in shock and Babe was feeding her all this false information. She emotionally manipulated Shirley, asking her if she trusted her, lying to her about Phil and then using Mick and Dean who Shirley was reluctant to leave. It was an important scene because evidently Babe was trying to get Shirley 'out of the way' for some reason. (further emphasized when she stopped Mick calling her to tell her that it was safe to come back, telling him she would call when evidently, she didn't). I can't tell if Babe wanted Shirley out of the way for her own agenda, because she genuinely didn't want her to go to prison or a bit of both.

To the latter, we are supposed to be finding out why Shirley turned out to be the mum that she was, a lot was to do with Mick and her childhood but I would be interested to know why she stayed with Kevin for so long and then just decided one day she couldn't cope, I hope they explain that timeline a little bit more as it has never really being explored. Once we find out exactly what prompted Shirley to leave and what happened, it will help us understand Shirley that much more.


Basically this.

Dean was damaged because of prison, he has deflected that anger onto Shirley imo. He had a loving upbringing with his family and was a normal, well adjusted character when he was first introduced. Shirley was actually the person he called for when he went into prison. I think maybe he finds it easier to blame it on her than himself.

Mick isn't ruined, even though he doesn't know Shirley is his mum, he still credits her with being the only mum he and Tina ever had and has said that it is because of her that he is a good father. Even Tina credited Shirley with being a 'mum' to them. And they are far from damaged. Neither is Carly.

I would agree that actually Phil, Jay and Ben ruined Shirley's life rather than the other way around.

Phil ruined Sharon and Shirley's life imo. Like Nancy said, everyone always blames the woman...


Exactly. I think she is paying. Sometimes the punishment you unleash on yourself through guilt and self destruction is enough. It's not as though she has gotten through all these things carefree and happy. Though I would like to see even a hint of happiness for Shirley, even just for a short period.

Shirley did everything she could to hurt Sharon so she does bear some responsibility. She may be unable to help loving Phil but she is a grown woman capable of choosing whether or not to act on her feelings. If people are slaves to their emotions and desires you could argue that Phil couldn't help treating Shirley as he did because she pursued him when he was insecure about his relationship and preyed on his fears of humiliation and being alone.

It would be a refreshing change to see her smile now & then. I think she's the pathos character in EE, to be eternally bitter and twisted, sad and regretful, the one who will never be honestly happy. Whatever the future holds for the Carters, it will be easy to blame Shirley, adding to her depressive guilt.

That's not paying though, it's like a reward to Shirley as her favourite pass time is wallowing in self pity.