All I'm saying is, I hope Shane Richie's new gameshow goes really Really REALLY well
Will Alfie commit suicide at Christmas?
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Originally Posted by 0...0:
“I thought soaps avoid doing this as depressed and isolated people are particularly vulnerable at that time of year and it would be deemed irresponsible.”
“I thought soaps avoid doing this as depressed and isolated people are particularly vulnerable at that time of year and it would be deemed irresponsible.”
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“They pulled back from doing it with Aidan Christmas 93 (I think) but I think they might have the guts to do it now.
It's a fine line. Suicides do go up round Christmas time (I believe) so it would be reflecting a real issue (the jollity and expense of it being the last straw for already depressed or troubled people) and perhaps encourage people to think about people in need (especially emotional - say a neighbour with no family or elderly widowed relative) but they won't want to risk being accused of putting the idea into people's heads.”
“They pulled back from doing it with Aidan Christmas 93 (I think) but I think they might have the guts to do it now.
It's a fine line. Suicides do go up round Christmas time (I believe) so it would be reflecting a real issue (the jollity and expense of it being the last straw for already depressed or troubled people) and perhaps encourage people to think about people in need (especially emotional - say a neighbour with no family or elderly widowed relative) but they won't want to risk being accused of putting the idea into people's heads.”
I can see them having the guts to do it with a well-established, well-liked/loved (at least by some) character (rather than someone like Stella who was a child toruturer) at some point in the future (and I'd applaud them if they did = suicide is the biggest killer of young[ish] males after all) but I don't think they'd dare do it at Christmas. I know the festive period is never particularly happy in Albert Square but really can't see them risking it (certainly not a successful suicide anyway- suppose they might possibly have an attempt)
Moon will not commit suicide but he will cut himself and bleed to death after manically running round Walford trying to buy a plaster.
I love Alfie and really don't want him to leave. The way he's going he's definately heading towards a breakdown/ depression if done properly could be great for Shane to portray as well as bringing about awareness of this unseen illness which affects so many
Omg! We can only live in hope!!!! He is seriously making my blood boil every time he comes on screen these days!!!!!
Originally Posted by wiggles247:
“I can see them having the guts to do it with a well-established, well-liked/loved (at least by some) character (rather than someone like Stella who was a child toruturer) at some point in the future (and I'd applaud them if they did = suicide is the biggest killer of young[ish] males after all) but I don't think they'd dare do it at Christmas. I know the festive period is never particularly happy in Albert Square but really can't see them risking it (certainly not a successful suicide anyway- suppose they might possibly have an attempt)”
“I can see them having the guts to do it with a well-established, well-liked/loved (at least by some) character (rather than someone like Stella who was a child toruturer) at some point in the future (and I'd applaud them if they did = suicide is the biggest killer of young[ish] males after all) but I don't think they'd dare do it at Christmas. I know the festive period is never particularly happy in Albert Square but really can't see them risking it (certainly not a successful suicide anyway- suppose they might possibly have an attempt)”
As I say Aidan was originally going to kill himself on xmas day 93 and somebody very high up at the BBC vetoed it. I'm not sure if that was because it was xmas or because it was a young man. Whilst it is the biggst killer of young men, teen suicide in particular is something they are careful about as the argument is teenagers are more easily influenced and might still see it as 'glamarous' if portrayed in Soap - especially if it makes other characters see the errors in how they'd treated them. The 'i'll kill myself, then they'll be sorry" way of thinking.
I'm not sure i'd agree with that but it does seem to be their concern and it is a real one. After all, if only one teenager attempts suicide (and god forbids succeeds even if they were just 'attention seeking') then it would be a tragedy
I do think they'd be more inclined to do it with an older character and it is a real issue with alpha men who feel emasculated because they can't provide for their families in the way they feel they should. I mean some (thankfully rare) cases have even taken it as far as killing their families before they kill themselves beca_se they can't see how they'd cope financially without him but don't see a way to do it whilst they remain alive.
Originally Posted by dottzie38:
“I love Alfie and really don't want him to leave. The way he's going he's definately heading towards a breakdown/ depression if done properly could be great for Shane to portray as well as bringing about awareness of this unseen illness which affects so many”
“I love Alfie and really don't want him to leave. The way he's going he's definately heading towards a breakdown/ depression if done properly could be great for Shane to portray as well as bringing about awareness of this unseen illness which affects so many”
Yes, especially as I believe statistically middle aged men are much less likely to consult their GPs about poor health in generally but even more so emotional / mental and get the help they need to get through it because they see it as a failure or weakness.
Originally Posted by SULLA:
“Moon will not commit suicide but he will cut himself and bleed to death after manically running round Walford trying to buy a plaster.”
“Moon will not commit suicide but he will cut himself and bleed to death after manically running round Walford trying to buy a plaster.”
Ha, ha. That remains my most hated episode in the history of EE. Even the sheep in the Vic, cold meat stealer etc rate higher than that!
Hopefully not as I still do like the snappy old fart!
I don't think suicide is the answer, he seems to be spiralling into a mental breakdown and may well go down the Arthur Fowler route and maybe he could end up being sectioned!
As a fan it is really sad to watch and if he commits suicide then he can't come back and I know while most of this forum would welcome that, I wouldn't, I would rather him go away and get well again!
Maybe they could write him out that way and he doesn't have to die to never come back to the square, he could maybe get a couple of years in a mental hospital until he's in a more stable state of mind and Kat stays in the square but goes to see Alfie and talks about him and when he's released he doesn't come home because he's automatically collared by the police for arson and insurance fraud and ends up on remand and we do see him a bit as Kat goes to the trial and he's sent down for 3 or 5 years to prison and Kat tells him she'll wait for him and comes home alone, she still visits Alfie and mentions him from time to time and eventually he tells her to forget him and she later begins a new healthy relationship with a lovely guy who never lets her down and provides for her every need, well almost because a couple of years into the relationship she decides it's not working because nice as this guy is he isn't her 'man in the moon' so she ends the relationship and gets into contact with the prison and resumes seeing Alfie and when he is finally released for good behaviour he decides he can't come back to Walford because of all the bad memories and people he hurt and let down so he gets in touch with Spencer who sends him money to go and join him in Australia and Kat decides to go with him and off she goes in the back of a black cab!
I know i'm probably letting my imagination run riot but this way Alfie can stay alive which is what I want and get help for his mental health which he needs, go to prison which is what he deserves and never come back to our screens apart from the trial, which is what everyone else on this forum wants!
I don't think suicide is the answer, he seems to be spiralling into a mental breakdown and may well go down the Arthur Fowler route and maybe he could end up being sectioned!
As a fan it is really sad to watch and if he commits suicide then he can't come back and I know while most of this forum would welcome that, I wouldn't, I would rather him go away and get well again!
Maybe they could write him out that way and he doesn't have to die to never come back to the square, he could maybe get a couple of years in a mental hospital until he's in a more stable state of mind and Kat stays in the square but goes to see Alfie and talks about him and when he's released he doesn't come home because he's automatically collared by the police for arson and insurance fraud and ends up on remand and we do see him a bit as Kat goes to the trial and he's sent down for 3 or 5 years to prison and Kat tells him she'll wait for him and comes home alone, she still visits Alfie and mentions him from time to time and eventually he tells her to forget him and she later begins a new healthy relationship with a lovely guy who never lets her down and provides for her every need, well almost because a couple of years into the relationship she decides it's not working because nice as this guy is he isn't her 'man in the moon' so she ends the relationship and gets into contact with the prison and resumes seeing Alfie and when he is finally released for good behaviour he decides he can't come back to Walford because of all the bad memories and people he hurt and let down so he gets in touch with Spencer who sends him money to go and join him in Australia and Kat decides to go with him and off she goes in the back of a black cab!
I know i'm probably letting my imagination run riot but this way Alfie can stay alive which is what I want and get help for his mental health which he needs, go to prison which is what he deserves and never come back to our screens apart from the trial, which is what everyone else on this forum wants!
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“As I say Aidan was originally going to kill himself on xmas day 93 and somebody very high up at the BBC vetoed it. I'm not sure if that was because it was xmas or because it was a young man. Whilst it is the biggst killer of young men, teen suicide in particular is something they are careful about as the argument is teenagers are more easily influenced and might still see it as 'glamarous' if portrayed in Soap - especially if it makes other characters see the errors in how they'd treated them. The 'i'll kill myself, then they'll be sorry" way of thinking.
I'm not sure i'd agree with that but it does seem to be their concern and it is a real one. After all, if only one teenager attempts suicide (and god forbids succeeds even if they were just 'attention seeking') then it would be a tragedy
I do think they'd be more inclined to do it with an older character and it is a real issue with alpha men who feel emasculated because they can't provide for their families in the way they feel they should. I mean some (thankfully rare) cases have even taken it as far as killing their families before they kill themselves beca_se they can't see how they'd cope financially without him but don't see a way to do it whilst they remain alive.”
“As I say Aidan was originally going to kill himself on xmas day 93 and somebody very high up at the BBC vetoed it. I'm not sure if that was because it was xmas or because it was a young man. Whilst it is the biggst killer of young men, teen suicide in particular is something they are careful about as the argument is teenagers are more easily influenced and might still see it as 'glamarous' if portrayed in Soap - especially if it makes other characters see the errors in how they'd treated them. The 'i'll kill myself, then they'll be sorry" way of thinking.
I'm not sure i'd agree with that but it does seem to be their concern and it is a real one. After all, if only one teenager attempts suicide (and god forbids succeeds even if they were just 'attention seeking') then it would be a tragedy
I do think they'd be more inclined to do it with an older character and it is a real issue with alpha men who feel emasculated because they can't provide for their families in the way they feel they should. I mean some (thankfully rare) cases have even taken it as far as killing their families before they kill themselves beca_se they can't see how they'd cope financially without him but don't see a way to do it whilst they remain alive.”
I'm glad they don't do this. Yes it would be brave but some things are more important than TV. Blocking the Aiden suicide was the right decision.
Originally Posted by RetroMusicFan:
“Hopefully not as I still do like the snappy old fart!
I don't think suicide is the answer, he seems to be spiralling into a mental breakdown and may well go down the Arthur Fowler route and maybe he could end up being sectioned!
As a fan it is really sad to watch and if he commits suicide then he can't come back and I know while most of this forum would welcome that, I wouldn't, I would rather him go away and get well again!
Maybe they could write him out that way and he doesn't have to die to never come back to the square, he could maybe get a couple of years in a mental hospital until he's in a more stable state of mind and Kat stays in the square but goes to see Alfie and talks about him and when he's released he doesn't come home because he's automatically collared by the police for arson and insurance fraud and ends up on remand and we do see him a bit as Kat goes to the trial and he's sent down for 3 or 5 years to prison and Kat tells him she'll wait for him and comes home alone, she still visits Alfie and mentions him from time to time and eventually he tells her to forget him and she later begins a new healthy relationship with a lovely guy who never lets her down and provides for her every need, well almost because a couple of years into the relationship she decides it's not working because nice as this guy is he isn't her 'man in the moon' so she ends the relationship and gets into contact with the prison and resumes seeing Alfie and when he is finally released for good behaviour he decides he can't come back to Walford because of all the bad memories and people he hurt and let down so he gets in touch with Spencer who sends him money to go and join him in Australia and Kat decides to go with him and off she goes in the back of a black cab!
I know i'm probably letting my imagination run riot but this way Alfie can stay alive which is what I want and get help for his mental health which he needs, go to prison which is what he deserves and never come back to our screens apart from the trial, which is what everyone else on this forum wants!”
“Hopefully not as I still do like the snappy old fart!
I don't think suicide is the answer, he seems to be spiralling into a mental breakdown and may well go down the Arthur Fowler route and maybe he could end up being sectioned!
As a fan it is really sad to watch and if he commits suicide then he can't come back and I know while most of this forum would welcome that, I wouldn't, I would rather him go away and get well again!
Maybe they could write him out that way and he doesn't have to die to never come back to the square, he could maybe get a couple of years in a mental hospital until he's in a more stable state of mind and Kat stays in the square but goes to see Alfie and talks about him and when he's released he doesn't come home because he's automatically collared by the police for arson and insurance fraud and ends up on remand and we do see him a bit as Kat goes to the trial and he's sent down for 3 or 5 years to prison and Kat tells him she'll wait for him and comes home alone, she still visits Alfie and mentions him from time to time and eventually he tells her to forget him and she later begins a new healthy relationship with a lovely guy who never lets her down and provides for her every need, well almost because a couple of years into the relationship she decides it's not working because nice as this guy is he isn't her 'man in the moon' so she ends the relationship and gets into contact with the prison and resumes seeing Alfie and when he is finally released for good behaviour he decides he can't come back to Walford because of all the bad memories and people he hurt and let down so he gets in touch with Spencer who sends him money to go and join him in Australia and Kat decides to go with him and off she goes in the back of a black cab!
I know i'm probably letting my imagination run riot but this way Alfie can stay alive which is what I want and get help for his mental health which he needs, go to prison which is what he deserves and never come back to our screens apart from the trial, which is what everyone else on this forum wants!”
Would you think differently about the story if you didn't see all the hate threads on the forum?
Originally Posted by 0...0:
“Would you think differently about the story if you didn't see all the hate threads on the forum?”
“Would you think differently about the story if you didn't see all the hate threads on the forum?”
He'll probably get diagnosed with depression and get all benfits associated with it, leading to lots of viewers doing the same thing and causing the welfare bill to rise again.
Originally Posted by 0...0:
“Would you think differently about the story if you didn't see all the hate threads on the forum?”
“Would you think differently about the story if you didn't see all the hate threads on the forum?”
I don't know!
All I know is I don't want him to commit suicide because despite everything still love the old buffer!
His behaviour towards Stacey and the Masoods has been disgusting though and his constant lying to Kat is despicable and the belt buckle thing did make me laugh but again he was expecting the rules to be broken/bent and he shouldn't have tried to bribe that estate agent and shouldn't have had that guy change the locks to number 43.
I think he's having a nervous breakdown myself!
Hopefully or Kat, Roxy, stacey, MAsood, shabnam, alek ohil
Or ronnie will yoryire him leading to a slow and painful death as revenge for what he has put them through/treated them in the past 13 months.
Or ronnie will yoryire him leading to a slow and painful death as revenge for what he has put them through/treated them in the past 13 months.
Originally Posted by 0...0:
“I'm glad they don't do this. Yes it would be brave but some things are more important than TV. Blocking the Aiden suicide was the right decision.”
“I'm glad they don't do this. Yes it would be brave but some things are more important than TV. Blocking the Aiden suicide was the right decision.”
I do think that suicide, and teen suicide should be covered in soaps but it should be shown in as ugly a way as possible. Showing how horrible the consequences can be of it going wrong (taking days or weeks to die in agony from a drugs overdose for example or being left maimed rather than dead from throwing yourself under a car or train), and that often the family and friends reaction is not one of "oh god, we're so sorry, why didn't we pay them attention, love them more" but one of anger and resentment or just shrugging their shoulders, writing it off as something that would have happened no matter what they did and moving on. Basically that the people that really, really love you like your parents, siblings, children (if old enough) will never get over it, a part of them will die irrevocably but crushes, friends that have been 'mean' won't be troubled long term.
I actually salute Hollyoaks for having done this with Lewis Richardson - his suicide from a Paracetamol overdose was shown in excruciating detail, physical and emotional and is probably the strongest anti teen (or young man) suicide message i've ever seen on TV.
Originally Posted by nathan69:
“He'll probably get diagnosed with depression and get all benfits associated with it, leading to lots of viewers doing the same thing and causing the welfare bill to rise again.”
“He'll probably get diagnosed with depression and get all benfits associated with it, leading to lots of viewers doing the same thing and causing the welfare bill to rise again.”
Well that is rather assuming that all GPS are incompetents that will sign anybody off with depression that comes in saying they are a bit down or stressed ddoesn't it. I know from experience that there are quite a lot of tests and even if you are given medication you aren't signed off work unless you are in a very, very bad way. Even if you've neen signed off it isn't easy to get benefits. With depression in particular you are constantly doubted and the stress is such that many don't bother. I didn't when I was signed off with severe clinical depression - i'm used my savings rather than trying to claim the benefits I should have been entitled to as I was genuinely sick and also paid into our benefits system for 25 years at quite a high rate but I'd heard from other people how horrible these interviews are, how quicky they deem you 'fit' and then you have to appeal and just know the stress would have pushed me closer to the edge. But I was lucky, whilst not rolling in it, I coud survive on what I had. Others can't and are put through the mill in this way.
Originally Posted by Keeki:
“I can't imagine Shane Richie ever agreeing to that.”
“I can't imagine Shane Richie ever agreeing to that.”
He wouldn't have to do it for real 
Truly though I don't see how he can say 'no'. It will be written in if that is what they want.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“I do think that suicide, and teen suicide should be covered in soaps but it should be shown in as ugly a way as possible. Showing how horrible the consequences can be of it going wrong (taking days or weeks to die in agony from a drugs overdose for example or being left maimed rather than dead from throwing yourself under a car or train), and that often the family and friends reaction is not one of "oh god, we're so sorry, why didn't we pay them attention, love them more" but one of anger and resentment or just shrugging their shoulders, writing it off as something that would have happened no matter what they did and moving on. Basically that the people that really, really love you like your parents, siblings, children (if old enough) will never get over it, a part of them will die irrevocably but crushes, friends that have been 'mean' won't be troubled long term.
I actually salute Hollyoaks for having done this with Lewis Richardson - his suicide from a Paracetamol overdose was shown in excruciating detail, physical and emotional and is probably the strongest anti teen (or young man) suicide message i've ever seen on TV.”
“I do think that suicide, and teen suicide should be covered in soaps but it should be shown in as ugly a way as possible. Showing how horrible the consequences can be of it going wrong (taking days or weeks to die in agony from a drugs overdose for example or being left maimed rather than dead from throwing yourself under a car or train), and that often the family and friends reaction is not one of "oh god, we're so sorry, why didn't we pay them attention, love them more" but one of anger and resentment or just shrugging their shoulders, writing it off as something that would have happened no matter what they did and moving on. Basically that the people that really, really love you like your parents, siblings, children (if old enough) will never get over it, a part of them will die irrevocably but crushes, friends that have been 'mean' won't be troubled long term.
I actually salute Hollyoaks for having done this with Lewis Richardson - his suicide from a Paracetamol overdose was shown in excruciating detail, physical and emotional and is probably the strongest anti teen (or young man) suicide message i've ever seen on TV.”
I would agree with that. I remember that in HO. That was hugely disturbing.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“Well that's a matter of opinion. I don't want him killed off as i'm finding him more interesting than I have in years but Kat and Stacey both worked fine as characters in their own right without Alfie. In fact, arguably, Kat is stronger without him.”
“Well that's a matter of opinion. I don't want him killed off as i'm finding him more interesting than I have in years but Kat and Stacey both worked fine as characters in their own right without Alfie. In fact, arguably, Kat is stronger without him.”
I agree and why does Stacey of all people need Alfie. He is nothing to do with her and wasn't even around for most of her highly successful last stint.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“Well that is rather assuming that all GPS are incompetents that will sign anybody off with depression that comes in saying they are a bit down or stressed ddoesn't it. I know from experience that there are quite a lot of tests and even if you are given medication you aren't signed off work unless you are in a very, very bad way. Even if you've neen signed off it isn't easy to get benefits. With depression in particular you are constantly doubted and the stress is such that many don't bother. I didn't when I was signed off with severe clinical depression - i'm used my savings rather than trying to claim the benefits I should have been entitled to as I was genuinely sick and also paid into our benefits system for 25 years at quite a high rate but I'd heard from other people how horrible these interviews are, how quicky they deem you 'fit' and then you have to appeal and just know the stress would have pushed me closer to the edge. But I was lucky, whilst not rolling in it, I coud survive on what I had. Others can't and are put through the mill in this way.”
“Well that is rather assuming that all GPS are incompetents that will sign anybody off with depression that comes in saying they are a bit down or stressed ddoesn't it. I know from experience that there are quite a lot of tests and even if you are given medication you aren't signed off work unless you are in a very, very bad way. Even if you've neen signed off it isn't easy to get benefits. With depression in particular you are constantly doubted and the stress is such that many don't bother. I didn't when I was signed off with severe clinical depression - i'm used my savings rather than trying to claim the benefits I should have been entitled to as I was genuinely sick and also paid into our benefits system for 25 years at quite a high rate but I'd heard from other people how horrible these interviews are, how quicky they deem you 'fit' and then you have to appeal and just know the stress would have pushed me closer to the edge. But I was lucky, whilst not rolling in it, I coud survive on what I had. Others can't and are put through the mill in this way.”
This. The tests you have to go through to get benefits are a nightmare. They contact your GP, your psychiatrist and social worker and even then say you're "fit to work" when you are clearly not. The Daily Mail / Express articles that claim you just fill in a form are lies.
Originally Posted by trevor tiger:
“ He wouldn't have to do it for real
Truly though I don't see how he can say 'no'. It will be written in if that is what they want.”
“
He wouldn't have to do it for real Truly though I don't see how he can say 'no'. It will be written in if that is what they want.”
Shane readily tells the media his opinion on storylines involving Alfie. He has also stated he would prefer not to be killed off as he considers the show his pension. They can force him to go through with storylines he disagrees with but I think he would make his dissatisfaction publically known.
Originally Posted by Keeki:
“Shane readily tells the media his opinion on storylines involving Alfie. He has also stated he would prefer not to be killed off as he considers the show his pension. They can force him to go through with storylines he disagrees with but I think he would make his dissatisfaction publically known.”
“Shane readily tells the media his opinion on storylines involving Alfie. He has also stated he would prefer not to be killed off as he considers the show his pension. They can force him to go through with storylines he disagrees with but I think he would make his dissatisfaction publically known.”
He can make his dis satisfa9tion public but it can'( stop them ending his contract and ending the character story arc in such a way as he can't come back. Ie kill him off.
They did it to Wendy Richards, Les Grantham, martine McCutcheon and Pam st Clement - why should Ritchie be exempt from having his character killed off when he'd rather he wasn't?
Frankly whilst I admire his honesty, I find it rather presumptive and arrogant that Ritchie assumes that his services are so indespensible that he can rely on EE for financial security into his old age. Not many people can assume that about a single employer or job in this day and age - least of all actors.
Originally Posted by Pink_Smurf:
“This. The tests you have to go through to get benefits are a nightmare. They contact your GP, your psychiatrist and social worker and even then say you're "fit to work" when you are clearly not. The Daily Mail / Express articles that claim you just fill in a form are lies.”
“This. The tests you have to go through to get benefits are a nightmare. They contact your GP, your psychiatrist and social worker and even then say you're "fit to work" when you are clearly not. The Daily Mail / Express articles that claim you just fill in a form are lies.”
Yes. Even aside the thorny issue of depression which could be argued can be faked. There are documented cases of people with chronic progressive, even terminal physical illnesses like MND or Cancer where Consultants have supported the claimant but they have been deemed 'fit to work' after a 5 minute interview with a Benefits assessor because they've managed to walk 5 yards in their own home!
I'm sure there are benefit blaggers, people that lie, know the loopholes and get more than they are entitled to but most don't and they are expected to live on a pittance and are under constant scrutiny which the genuinely sick and needy don't need on top of their other problems. The Benefits System is an easy target for the Daily Wail and their ilk.
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