Just because someone makes a comment about Alison's weight doesn't mean they don't like her. I worry about her and feel that for the sake of her health she does need to lose weight. There is a lot she can't do because she is so big. There is no denying she is having fun and why shouldn't she but no one wants to see her collapse whilst she is having fun.
Alison
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Originally Posted by susie-4964:
“ You might just as well say they shouldn't have old people on there if it's a question of what someone is physically able to do.”
“ You might just as well say they shouldn't have old people on there if it's a question of what someone is physically able to do.”
Quite agree. So many posters dress up dislike of Alison as a concern over her health. It's nonsense - as well as the over 70s, you've got two men this year who have had broken backs! No-one is going to die!
It's ridiculous to criticise someone for being fat and then say they have no right to dare doing anything active.
Originally Posted by Susan_A1951:
“OP - I think any thread about Alison will inevitably end up talking about her weight. I watched tonight and could only admire her rhythm and ability - but also thought - if only she was 5 stone lighter - what a contestant she would be.
In the meantime - I am a little tired with every Strictly including the token obese dancer. What are they trying to prove?
However PC they are being - the facts are there. Anyone carrying that amount of weight is risking damage to their heart and their joints. This is not "weightist" - it is a simple fact. And I am speaking from having lost several stone over the last few years and improved my general health immeasurably - including risks of heart problems and diabetes.”
“OP - I think any thread about Alison will inevitably end up talking about her weight. I watched tonight and could only admire her rhythm and ability - but also thought - if only she was 5 stone lighter - what a contestant she would be.
In the meantime - I am a little tired with every Strictly including the token obese dancer. What are they trying to prove?
However PC they are being - the facts are there. Anyone carrying that amount of weight is risking damage to their heart and their joints. This is not "weightist" - it is a simple fact. And I am speaking from having lost several stone over the last few years and improved my general health immeasurably - including risks of heart problems and diabetes.”
Actually, that is not a 'fact' at all. There is in fact no independent, peer reviewed research to show that obesity damages a persons heart or joints or puts them at a greater risk of diabetes, in and of itself. There is a lot of independent peer reviewed research to directly show that obesity isn't significantly a greater risk factor to health in terms of heart disease, joints or many other 'obesity related illnesses'. Any 'real' research done has found little evidence. Statistically, 'obesity related illnesses' effects about the same amount of 'healthy weight' people as it does 'obese' people.
In fact there is a lot of independent peer reviewed research that shows obesity can be protective, particularly in older age. There is also independent peer reviewed research that shows continually dieting poses a greater risk to health than obesity. Assuming the person isn't completely sedentary, being obese doesn't 'put strain' on a persons heart, or joints, unless there is already a medical problem. These aren't the best papers, but I link to these as they are the most accessible to the general reader) 1) obesity 2) fat and fit.)
Most health improvements one notices when losing weight is often due to being more active.
What I do find interesting in threads about Alison and Lisa - and this is not directed at you - is the bigotry dressed up as 'fat concern'. Gheesh, the OP started up a thread about the music choice for Alison's dance, and in comes comments about her weight, both dressed up as 'fat concern' and just outright bigoted, and it was all disproportionate to the topic.
Calling her the token fat person is at best, condescending. People exists in all shapes, you can't erase that fact. The BBC are being reflective of the real world! Seeing a big person moving around not only breaks repressive stereotypes, but it IS a role model to put out there and IS something to aspire to. Being active is probably the number one controllable action one can take to increasing their health REGARDLESS of their size. The science backs this fact up.
Oh, and yes OP, it wasn't the best music choice. Sadly, Strictly and music choices have been getting worse for all contestants.
Originally Posted by Linda_Dean:
“Actually, that is not a 'fact' at all. There is in fact no independent, peer reviewed research to show that obesity damages a persons heart or joints or puts them at a greater risk of diabetes, in and of itself. There is a lot of independent peer reviewed research to directly show that obesity isn't significantly a greater risk factor to health in terms of heart disease, joints or many other 'obesity related illnesses'. Any 'real' research done has found little evidence. Statistically, 'obesity related illnesses' effects about the same amount of 'healthy weight' people as it does 'obese' people.
In fact there is a lot of independent peer reviewed research that shows obesity can be protective, particularly in older age. There is also independent peer reviewed research that shows continually dieting poses a greater risk to health than obesity. Assuming the person isn't completely sedentary, being obese doesn't 'put strain' on a persons heart, or joints, unless there is already a medical problem. These aren't the best papers, but I link to these as they are the most accessible to the general reader) 1) obesity 2) fat and fit.)
Most health improvements one notices when losing weight is often due to being more active.
What I do find interesting in threads about Alison and Lisa - and this is not directed at you - is the bigotry dressed up as 'fat concern'. Gheesh, the OP started up a thread about the music choice for Alison's dance, and in comes comments about her weight, both dressed up as 'fat concern' and just outright bigoted, and it was all disproportionate to the topic.
Calling her the token fat person is at best, condescending. People exists in all shapes, you can't erase that fact. The BBC are being reflective of the real world! Seeing a big person moving around not only breaks repressive stereotypes, but it IS a role model to put out there and IS something to aspire to. Being active is probably the number one controllable action one can take to increasing their health REGARDLESS of their size. The science backs this fact up.
Oh, and yes OP, it wasn't the best music choice. Sadly, Strictly and music choices have been getting worse for all contestants.”
“Actually, that is not a 'fact' at all. There is in fact no independent, peer reviewed research to show that obesity damages a persons heart or joints or puts them at a greater risk of diabetes, in and of itself. There is a lot of independent peer reviewed research to directly show that obesity isn't significantly a greater risk factor to health in terms of heart disease, joints or many other 'obesity related illnesses'. Any 'real' research done has found little evidence. Statistically, 'obesity related illnesses' effects about the same amount of 'healthy weight' people as it does 'obese' people.
In fact there is a lot of independent peer reviewed research that shows obesity can be protective, particularly in older age. There is also independent peer reviewed research that shows continually dieting poses a greater risk to health than obesity. Assuming the person isn't completely sedentary, being obese doesn't 'put strain' on a persons heart, or joints, unless there is already a medical problem. These aren't the best papers, but I link to these as they are the most accessible to the general reader) 1) obesity 2) fat and fit.)
Most health improvements one notices when losing weight is often due to being more active.
What I do find interesting in threads about Alison and Lisa - and this is not directed at you - is the bigotry dressed up as 'fat concern'. Gheesh, the OP started up a thread about the music choice for Alison's dance, and in comes comments about her weight, both dressed up as 'fat concern' and just outright bigoted, and it was all disproportionate to the topic.
Calling her the token fat person is at best, condescending. People exists in all shapes, you can't erase that fact. The BBC are being reflective of the real world! Seeing a big person moving around not only breaks repressive stereotypes, but it IS a role model to put out there and IS something to aspire to. Being active is probably the number one controllable action one can take to increasing their health REGARDLESS of their size. The science backs this fact up.
Oh, and yes OP, it wasn't the best music choice. Sadly, Strictly and music choices have been getting worse for all contestants.”
Amen to this. A lot of people like to wrap their prejudice up as some sort of concern, when for the majority it comes down to stereotyping and not liking an appearance. I am sure their are plenty of people out there doing far worse things for their health like smoking or drinking excessively I don't really see people being concerned about that. Being active whatever your size is one of the best things you can do for your health.
Strictly has been shown time and time again to be one of the best diet programmes there is. Tim Wonnacott lost 2 stone and he only lasted to week 4! It will be doing Alison the world of good.
One thing's for sure, if Alison does an American Smooth, there won't be any lifts, unless she lifts Alja.
Originally Posted by Linda_Dean:
“Actually, that is not a 'fact' at all. There is in fact no independent, peer reviewed research to show that obesity damages a persons heart or joints or puts them at a greater risk of diabetes, in and of itself. There is a lot of independent peer reviewed research to directly show that obesity isn't significantly a greater risk factor to health in terms of heart disease, joints or many other 'obesity related illnesses'. Any 'real' research done has found little evidence. Statistically, 'obesity related illnesses' effects about the same amount of 'healthy weight' people as it does 'obese' people.
In fact there is a lot of independent peer reviewed research that shows obesity can be protective, particularly in older age. There is also independent peer reviewed research that shows continually dieting poses a greater risk to health than obesity. Assuming the person isn't completely sedentary, being obese doesn't 'put strain' on a persons heart, or joints, unless there is already a medical problem. These aren't the best papers, but I link to these as they are the most accessible to the general reader) 1) obesity 2) fat and fit.)
Most health improvements one notices when losing weight is often due to being more active.
What I do find interesting in threads about Alison and Lisa - and this is not directed at you - is the bigotry dressed up as 'fat concern'. Gheesh, the OP started up a thread about the music choice for Alison's dance, and in comes comments about her weight, both dressed up as 'fat concern' and just outright bigoted, and it was all disproportionate to the topic.
Calling her the token fat person is at best, condescending. People exists in all shapes, you can't erase that fact. The BBC are being reflective of the real world! Seeing a big person moving around not only breaks repressive stereotypes, but it IS a role model to put out there and IS something to aspire to. Being active is probably the number one controllable action one can take to increasing their health REGARDLESS of their size. The science backs this fact up.
Oh, and yes OP, it wasn't the best music choice. Sadly, Strictly and music choices have been getting worse for all contestants.”
“Actually, that is not a 'fact' at all. There is in fact no independent, peer reviewed research to show that obesity damages a persons heart or joints or puts them at a greater risk of diabetes, in and of itself. There is a lot of independent peer reviewed research to directly show that obesity isn't significantly a greater risk factor to health in terms of heart disease, joints or many other 'obesity related illnesses'. Any 'real' research done has found little evidence. Statistically, 'obesity related illnesses' effects about the same amount of 'healthy weight' people as it does 'obese' people.
In fact there is a lot of independent peer reviewed research that shows obesity can be protective, particularly in older age. There is also independent peer reviewed research that shows continually dieting poses a greater risk to health than obesity. Assuming the person isn't completely sedentary, being obese doesn't 'put strain' on a persons heart, or joints, unless there is already a medical problem. These aren't the best papers, but I link to these as they are the most accessible to the general reader) 1) obesity 2) fat and fit.)
Most health improvements one notices when losing weight is often due to being more active.
What I do find interesting in threads about Alison and Lisa - and this is not directed at you - is the bigotry dressed up as 'fat concern'. Gheesh, the OP started up a thread about the music choice for Alison's dance, and in comes comments about her weight, both dressed up as 'fat concern' and just outright bigoted, and it was all disproportionate to the topic.
Calling her the token fat person is at best, condescending. People exists in all shapes, you can't erase that fact. The BBC are being reflective of the real world! Seeing a big person moving around not only breaks repressive stereotypes, but it IS a role model to put out there and IS something to aspire to. Being active is probably the number one controllable action one can take to increasing their health REGARDLESS of their size. The science backs this fact up.
Oh, and yes OP, it wasn't the best music choice. Sadly, Strictly and music choices have been getting worse for all contestants.”
Yes! I totally agree with what you are saying. It is not obesity in itself that causes problems it is inactivity. Better to be an active overweight person than an inactive thin smoker for example.
I think this has been proven on many weight loss shows such as The Biggest Loser where the person losing weight gets a really good level of fitness maybe even after just a month on the regime even though they are still very overweight.
Originally Posted by Teddybear99:
“Yes! I totally agree with what you are saying. It is not obesity in itself that causes problems it is inactivity. Better to be an active overweight person than an inactive thin smoker for example.”
“Yes! I totally agree with what you are saying. It is not obesity in itself that causes problems it is inactivity. Better to be an active overweight person than an inactive thin smoker for example.”
Not a scientific statement at all. Really messy mixing of your variables. Besides, her knees may not agree. Would be better to shed a few stones swimming or on the exercise bike than pounding the dance floor first.
Originally Posted by Spin turn:
“I think Caroline and Pasha had by far the worst music actually and yet they danced a really good Paso.
By worst music, I mean that it did not appear to have any Paso rhythm to it at all (phrasing of eight beats) and so I don't know how Caroline managed to dance some decent Paso steps.”
“I think Caroline and Pasha had by far the worst music actually and yet they danced a really good Paso.
By worst music, I mean that it did not appear to have any Paso rhythm to it at all (phrasing of eight beats) and so I don't know how Caroline managed to dance some decent Paso steps.”
I thought Caroline's music was the worst choice of the night too (as well as an awful paso frock). But she saved it by dancing well.
Alison didn't dance well at all so the whole package wasn't as good.
Originally Posted by Linda_Dean:
“Actually, that is not a 'fact' at all. There is in fact no independent, peer reviewed research to show that obesity damages a persons heart or joints or puts them at a greater risk of diabetes, in and of itself. There is a lot of independent peer reviewed research to directly show that obesity isn't significantly a greater risk factor to health in terms of heart disease, joints or many other 'obesity related illnesses'. Any 'real' research done has found little evidence. Statistically, 'obesity related illnesses' effects about the same amount of 'healthy weight' people as it does 'obese' people.
In fact there is a lot of independent peer reviewed research that shows obesity can be protective, particularly in older age. There is also independent peer reviewed research that shows continually dieting poses a greater risk to health than obesity. Assuming the person isn't completely sedentary, being obese doesn't 'put strain' on a persons heart, or joints, unless there is already a medical problem. These aren't the best papers, but I link to these as they are the most accessible to the general reader) 1) obesity 2) fat and fit.)
Most health improvements one notices when losing weight is often due to being more active.
What I do find interesting in threads about Alison and Lisa - and this is not directed at you - is the bigotry dressed up as 'fat concern'. Gheesh, the OP started up a thread about the music choice for Alison's dance, and in comes comments about her weight, both dressed up as 'fat concern' and just outright bigoted, and it was all disproportionate to the topic.
Calling her the token fat person is at best, condescending. People exists in all shapes, you can't erase that fact. The BBC are being reflective of the real world! Seeing a big person moving around not only breaks repressive stereotypes, but it IS a role model to put out there and IS something to aspire to. Being active is probably the number one controllable action one can take to increasing their health REGARDLESS of their size. The science backs this fact up.
Oh, and yes OP, it wasn't the best music choice. Sadly, Strictly and music choices have been getting worse for all contestants.”
“Actually, that is not a 'fact' at all. There is in fact no independent, peer reviewed research to show that obesity damages a persons heart or joints or puts them at a greater risk of diabetes, in and of itself. There is a lot of independent peer reviewed research to directly show that obesity isn't significantly a greater risk factor to health in terms of heart disease, joints or many other 'obesity related illnesses'. Any 'real' research done has found little evidence. Statistically, 'obesity related illnesses' effects about the same amount of 'healthy weight' people as it does 'obese' people.
In fact there is a lot of independent peer reviewed research that shows obesity can be protective, particularly in older age. There is also independent peer reviewed research that shows continually dieting poses a greater risk to health than obesity. Assuming the person isn't completely sedentary, being obese doesn't 'put strain' on a persons heart, or joints, unless there is already a medical problem. These aren't the best papers, but I link to these as they are the most accessible to the general reader) 1) obesity 2) fat and fit.)
Most health improvements one notices when losing weight is often due to being more active.
What I do find interesting in threads about Alison and Lisa - and this is not directed at you - is the bigotry dressed up as 'fat concern'. Gheesh, the OP started up a thread about the music choice for Alison's dance, and in comes comments about her weight, both dressed up as 'fat concern' and just outright bigoted, and it was all disproportionate to the topic.
Calling her the token fat person is at best, condescending. People exists in all shapes, you can't erase that fact. The BBC are being reflective of the real world! Seeing a big person moving around not only breaks repressive stereotypes, but it IS a role model to put out there and IS something to aspire to. Being active is probably the number one controllable action one can take to increasing their health REGARDLESS of their size. The science backs this fact up.
Oh, and yes OP, it wasn't the best music choice. Sadly, Strictly and music choices have been getting worse for all contestants.”
Then why are doctors telling us that obesity can cause the following:
Obesity has been associated with many other illnesses, either as a cause or a trigger for worsening symptoms:
Diabetes. Obesity is strongly correlated with diabetes. ...
Cancer. ...
Sleep apnea. ...
Osteoarthritis. ...
Gallbladder disease. ...
Fatty liver disease. ...
GERD. ...
Gout.
Are their years of medicical study and experience of dealing with chronically overwight people wrong
Originally Posted by Scarlett Berry:
“Then why are doctors telling us that obesity can cause the following:
Obesity has been associated with many other illnesses, either as a cause or a trigger for worsening symptoms:
Diabetes. Obesity is strongly correlated with diabetes. ...
Cancer. ...
Sleep apnea. ...
Osteoarthritis. ...
Gallbladder disease. ...
Fatty liver disease. ...
GERD. ...
Gout.
Are their years of medicical study and experience of dealing with chronically overwight people wrong”
“Then why are doctors telling us that obesity can cause the following:
Obesity has been associated with many other illnesses, either as a cause or a trigger for worsening symptoms:
Diabetes. Obesity is strongly correlated with diabetes. ...
Cancer. ...
Sleep apnea. ...
Osteoarthritis. ...
Gallbladder disease. ...
Fatty liver disease. ...
GERD. ...
Gout.
Are their years of medicical study and experience of dealing with chronically overwight people wrong”
I wouldn't worry.
apparently the earth is flat, too.
Originally Posted by Scarlett Berry:
“Then why are doctors telling us that obesity can cause the following:
Obesity has been associated with many other illnesses, either as a cause or a trigger for worsening symptoms:
Diabetes. Obesity is strongly correlated with diabetes. ...
Cancer. ...
Sleep apnea. ...
Osteoarthritis. ...
Gallbladder disease. ...
Fatty liver disease. ...
GERD. ...
Gout.
Are their years of medicical study and experience of dealing with chronically overwight people wrong”
“Then why are doctors telling us that obesity can cause the following:
Obesity has been associated with many other illnesses, either as a cause or a trigger for worsening symptoms:
Diabetes. Obesity is strongly correlated with diabetes. ...
Cancer. ...
Sleep apnea. ...
Osteoarthritis. ...
Gallbladder disease. ...
Fatty liver disease. ...
GERD. ...
Gout.
Are their years of medicical study and experience of dealing with chronically overwight people wrong”
Associates with and correlated with are not the same as causes. Inactivity can cause obesity, so can overindulgence, too much sugar etc.
Activity and a healthy diet are more important than size when it comes to health. It is just that being overweight can be a sign that you are doing neither.
Originally Posted by What name??:
“Associates with and correlated with are not the same as causes. Inactivity can cause obesity, so can overindulgence, too much sugar etc.
Activity and a healthy diet are more important than size when it comes to health. It is just that being overweight can be a sign that you are doing neither.”
“Associates with and correlated with are not the same as causes. Inactivity can cause obesity, so can overindulgence, too much sugar etc.
Activity and a healthy diet are more important than size when it comes to health. It is just that being overweight can be a sign that you are doing neither.”
Isn't that contradictory
Originally Posted by RichmondBlue:
“Overmarked again, she was awful.”
“Overmarked again, she was awful.”
She has not been over marked at all, so I'm wondering what you watch?
Originally Posted by BadWigeon:
“I thought it was really, really bad. She is so hampered by how flat footed she is. It always appears as though she is shuffling along in a pair of old slippers.”
“I thought it was really, really bad. She is so hampered by how flat footed she is. It always appears as though she is shuffling along in a pair of old slippers.”
while i think thats exaggerated a bit, i do agree she is falt footed and that comes over as shuffling. her Jive was very hampered by that.
Originally Posted by yorkshire belle:
“Hang on, I'm not talking about her dancing........ But the producers MUSIC choice diabolical”
“Hang on, I'm not talking about her dancing........ But the producers MUSIC choice diabolical”
I agree, I dont think it worked well at.
Can the pro dancers object if they don't think the music is right?
Do we know for sure the pro dancers don't choose the music?
Originally Posted by aimeeaimee1000:
“She was awful and should have gone before the lovely Thom
”
“She was awful and should have gone before the lovely Thom
”
but not before scott or judy, so you must have a prejudice.
Originally Posted by Scarlett Berry:
“Isn't that contradictory”
“Isn't that contradictory
”
No, how can you not understand?
Its very clear.
It could be an indication but it is not necessarily the case.
I'll put it out there, the music is okay for a Tango. They used it on DWTS and it worked fine!
Difference is the celeb in America was Charlie White. He could dance well. Alison can't, and Aljaz's routine took 45 seconds to even look like a Tango. It was worse than Tim's Charleston. Deserved no more than 3s or 4s...
Difference is the celeb in America was Charlie White. He could dance well. Alison can't, and Aljaz's routine took 45 seconds to even look like a Tango. It was worse than Tim's Charleston. Deserved no more than 3s or 4s...
Originally Posted by Cherrybomber:
“but not before scott or judy, so you must have a prejudice.”
“but not before scott or judy, so you must have a prejudice.”
Scott yes, but Judy is actually getting into the proper spirit of strictly. Yes, Anton goes for laughs with the illegal lifts, but her Tango was actually a Tango, not matter how badly she did it. As was her Charleston. She actually wears ballroom heels, she has content, Scott and Alison are just awful, and Aljaz's routines have so little content! Alison going before Scott wouldn't be wholly unfair, but I feel going before Judy would be...
Originally Posted by Cherrybomber:
“No, how can you not understand?
Its very clear.
It could be an indication but it is not necessarily the case.”
“No, how can you not understand?
Its very clear.
It could be an indication but it is not necessarily the case.”
Well, I just don't, moreover I don't think it is very clear at all.
Originally Posted by Scarlett Berry:
“Well, I just don't, moreover I don't think it is very clear at all.”
“Well, I just don't, moreover I don't think it is very clear at all.”
I'll try for you, because it is an important point. This is what studies ACTUALLY show:
If you are obese AND fit, you aren't particularly at risk from all the fat-person diseases.
If you are thin AND unfit, you are at risk for all the diseases thought of as fat-person diseases.
It's slightly more complicated than that, obviously, because all sorts of things interact to cause disease: not just weight, not just fitness, not just genetics, not just environment.
Public health efforts have to communicate very simple messages, otherwise people ignore them. Unfit people are much more likely to be fat. Fat people are more likely to diet than unfit people are to exercise. Therefore the public health message centres on the simple mantra of DON'T BE FAT.
[quote=henrywilliams58;75356074]Here is a fat guy dancing. Pretty good. So much better than the skinny Dad Dancers at the back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPhXZQFBeEE
Aaargh! Speedo warning!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPhXZQFBeEE
Aaargh! Speedo warning!!!
Originally Posted by Scarlett Berry:
“Isn't that contradictory”
“Isn't that contradictory
”
No I don't think it is. Some people and I include myself in this find it really hard to get down to what some people would say is a normal weight. However, a healthy diet and lots of activity will make us fitter and more healthy than someone who is lighter but who doesn't exercise.
Someone who is skeletal but lives in the pub and smokes like a chimney will not be healthier than a larger person who exercises regularly.
I was diagnosed with diabetes 7 years ago, since then although my weight hasn't decreased very much my activity has. I exercise regularly and have done a 50 mile mountain treks three times. I eat a reasonably healthy diet and every check I have had in the last five years has shown my blood sugars as normal. So much so that the Diabetic Practitioner is now disputing the original diagnosis.
Saying diseases are related to obesity is a bit of a lazy way of putting it - those diseases are linked to an unhealthy lifestyle and lack of exercise, and often people who fit that are obese. However not all obese people have unhealthy lifestyles.
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