Yeah, I did consider that, in the context of whether there's different versions of Missy in each place, but then remembered that the classic series showed that one aspect of the Matrix is that you can travel in and out of it, it's not just an archive for data.

That's possible, but it's no so much that. I genuinely meant that it's entirely possible that Clara didn't remember MIssy at all - which is convenient in terms of th eway the story unfolded. It would have been a bit different if they had encountered 'MISI' and Clara had suddenly said, "Hang on! You're the woman in the shop!"

I read it completely the opposite way - that she was preparing to open up to him and tell all, having chosen Danny. After all, at the end of the previous episode she was prepared to stay with Danny and the kids on Earth and die if necessary.

I think we're talking about two separate places. Remember, before leaving the TARDIS the Doctor pointed out to Clara that the telepathic link brought them to somewhere where there was a strong connection to Danny - i.e. not necessarily where he was.

It's subject to interpretation, but I think we saw Missy, the Doctor and Clara in one place, and Seb and Danny in another. We've only ever seen Seb in the Nethersphere world, although in previous episodes we have seen Missy there too - so I have no idea how that works!

I don't think Seb can leave the Nethersphere, his mind is trapped there along with everyone else's. Missy however, presumably can come and go from the Nethersphere as she wishes (maybe using that funky bracelet she has). If that's the case then...

It's probably deliberately vague. I'm only going with the 'dump' interpretation because of her delivery of "Danny, I'll never say those words again", but then she follows up with "Not to anybody else, ever", which makes it ambiguous again. I don't think she would be upset over the phone to him if she actually wanted to stay.

I suspect that she was weighing up the terrible things that happen when she and the Doctor are around, and decided that she was putting him in too much danger. Also, it mirrors nicely with their later contact - also over a phone line, where Danny deliberately pushes her away to protect her.

In the Forest, she was prepared to stay with Danny and the kids only because she couldn't stand to be the last of her kind, so it's fairly different circumstances.


We're certainly expected to think that they're different places - that Missy, the Doctor and Clara are in London, and Seb and Danny are in the Matrix. But what if the TARDIS did bring them into the Matrix, and they're actually imagining the invasion? What if the Master didn't come back to life, and Missy is trying to trick the Doctor into doing something that will give her a body back?

I don't personally think that's the case, but it is certainly a plausible theory given what we currently know.

very silly idea. it works allegorically in a film like "matter of life and death" but not literally where the tardis is supposed to go to the actual place ....... and anyway it was just another vampire story, really, despite the cybermen.

what next ? maybe the tardis will materialise inside a bugs bunny cartoon .......

I think you're missing the point that it's not actually the afterlife, though. There are physical tombs where Missy has been building her Cyberman army. And there is essentially a database (using Time Lord tech) of human consciousnesses which are then uploaded into Cyber brains - hence Missy's "Cybermen from cyberspace" comment.

Just imagine that.

It could happen. Some scenario with being psychically connected to the Matrix & in a world created by a child's mind.

this could justify the reason for the tardis not telling him where they were ("need to do this the old fashion way") although that could have been for the benefit of the st pauls reveal.

I thought it was just the Doctor made the machine malfunction (he fired a bullet into it, didn't he) in such a way that the link through which the Time Lords were transported was reversed, & the Master, happening to be in proximity, was sucked in too, as if the light was a conveyor belt which he happened to be standing on the end of, & had suddenly been thrown into reverse. Purely from appearances, the Time Lords & Master might merely have been vaporised. But I think the Doctor said he thought they had been transported back to Gallifrey, which would imply he knew that firing the bullet into that part of the machine would have that effect.

Wow hadn't thought of that possibility... if so that is some piece of misdirection from Moffat! I think the post its might have been summation of adventures that she wanted to tell Danny about as it is the simplest answer but why have Jenny and Vastra's names for example? That is why I wondered if she was also reflecting on things they had said to her for example and then had come to a realisation on something. Maybe I'm just reading way too much into that small scene! I used to use post its at work to problem solve and see patterns so maybe that's why I want them to mean something

True but knowing me I'd still be watching anyway, afterall if I managed to sit through the god awful Love & Monsters, Fear Her and that Easter Special which was so bad I don't even remember the name of it and live to tell the tells, than I'm sure I can put up with that.

What's Missy doing with that hand-held device,in the scene with her, the Doctor, and Dr. Chang? She points it first at the Doctor, and then at Chang. Later she uses it to vaporise Chang.

If it really vaporised Chang I'll eat my sock!!!! It reminds me of the trick the Daleks pulled off with the "disintegration" beam trick which turned out to be a transport device in the series 1 finale, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a similar sort of con.

Also who said that the garden was in the Nethersphere? Why would we possibly assume the garden was in the Nethersphere? We know that Missy has been lying so why not tell the same lie to different people but about different places depending on what suits her needs. We don't know of any back up plan she may have had in case this one fails, and in fact we don't even know yet what her plan is.

Watched on Saturday but forgot to post. 10/10. Almost controversially dark. and a tantalising set up for next week. Genuinely excited to see how this plays out. Great to have The Master back, didn't think Moffat would go there.

ironically for me just as the Doctor is starting to feel like the Doctor at long last the show itself takes another turn for the worse by turning the iconic Master into Mary Poppins.

That along with Moffat now deciding that he knows what happens after death. I sat in horror as he decided that people who chose cremation can feel the pain of it, as do those who donate their bodies to science. Wow. Just wow.

The sooner Clara joins Danny Pink wherever he is and never comes back the better. I can't abide either of them.

that's what 3W are saying , but I'd bet it's a con , this organisation is being run by the bad guys after all .

I agree that it could well turn out that way but putting it idea of it out there at all is in very bad taste to my mind and very hurtful to those whose loved ones were either cremated or donated their bodies to science. I just thought it was awful.

well you could say that about any story featuring ghosts , zombies , supernatural etc.


.

I've had loved ones cremated and it didn't bother me one jot.

I can understand that some people may be upset by it...but not everybody.

BBC Responds to complaints.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/29908743

It might be worth a re-watch. Moffat isn't saying he knows what happens after death. He's saying he knows what a particular bad guy has being doing to some people immediately prior to death.