Actually, I think she did make Scott look a lot better than he actually was in this particular routine. Judy has improved a lot more than Scott, but I notice a lot of people saying Scott showed more improvement this week. I don't think that was true in any way at all and I think that impression was down to choreography. What she does is break up each set of ballroom steps with a bit of acting in between so that he doesn't have to dance continuously for too long. This both puts him under less pressure and allows him to adjust his posture at the start of each set of steps.

That said. I prefer to see the celeb's dancing shown for what it is rather than the professional disguise their deficiencies, but I accept that is not where the professional will be coming from since it is their job to make the celeb look as good as possible.

Dunno about you but I was pretty impressed that she got him dancing standing spin in both directions and continuous pivots. That's a big step up in difficulty from his previous routines. Don't think I've seen another celeb do the left-turning standing spin, which is much more difficult to co-ordinate as the girl is on the right-hand side and he's turning to the left.

And separately his characterisation was really good - that's also not as easy as it looks given that he's a presenter, not an actor.

Yeah just looked at it again and he does more than I gave him credit for in my earlier post, including the standing spin. I still think the key thing here was giving him a break between each set of steps. He probably suffers from brain overload/panic and that's one good way of getting him to refresh and re energise between steps.

The routine was good. Scott wasn't. )

Erm... Joanne does not do choreography. Not her strong point. She has it done for her.

So far not impressed by her at all, although she did get the ulitnmate dud to dance with. I think he's a sweet man, but he'll never, ever make a dancer.

Well whoever does the choreography did well then (and to be fair to her she did get the blame by many on here for previous choreography and so if that was undeserved, maybe she should also get some undeserved credit! ).

Yes, she did draw the short straw in terms of dancer potential, although they seem to have got on well together.

Were you at the choreography session for this routine? That's amazing insight. Or if you're just guessing, do please clarify. We can all guess...

Tristan says here that the pros do their own choreography for ballroom and latin http://www.macmaniacs.org/updates.html. I know Kristina implied something different in a tweet but I'm much more inclined to believe a considered answer by Tristan to a set of structured questions.

Quote:

"A wardrobe department comes up with your costume and you are given your music although you are asked to suggest music and concepts when you get partnered up. The balance is decided by production as to concept and dance."

" There is a team who are available for help when it comes to the less familiar dances - Charleston, Salsa, Argentine Tango although not everyone uses them. We are expected, and rightly so, to do our own work for Ballroom and Latin as that is what we train in and are paid to teach but there is always help available if needed although all teaching is done by us, the professional, just like America. "

See that is the problem, we have seen that twice now, we should be seeing Scott dance not her. I realise it is distraction technique which all the pros do, but even Zoe commented on it in her comments afterwards.

Matalie, Erin, Lilia when faced with a duffer of Scott's magnitude used to be able to get one decent dance from them by sheer hard work to instil steps into them.

No I don't think her choreography was great,especially in the first dance I have no idea what she was trying to do and it never really improved for me.

Famously she did not do her choreography ever in her career up to this point and had a team to do it for her as she was not very good at it.

If she is starting to do it now she needs to improve a lot and very quickly if she ever comes back next year, which I personally have no interest in seeing .

Do you have a source you can quote for this?

Ok, so aside from featherstep, extended bounce fallaway, throwaway oversway, same foot lunge, reverse wave, standing spin to the right and to the left and continuous pivots, what authentic foxtrot choreography would you have preferred to see in this routine?

Lol, I'm impressed! . You know your stuff! I find it difficult to spot steps. I noticed feather, reverse wave, oversway and pivots, but only on second run through.

Indeed. But it does make it more difficult for me to throw random insults at professional dancers based on no knowledge whatsoever.

I can't find it, I will keep looking.

It was an interview by Joanne when she first started SCD saying that she was nervous about doing her own choreography as she had not done it before, she had always had a team to do it for her.

No idea where it was have tried Radio times, Dance news, anyone else seen it.

no I don't have the evidence, but I did read it and thought she was brave to acknowledge her shortcomings.

It was definatly before her first dance as I remember thinking that she had a lot to learn after that.

]Am I in a parallel universe?[/quote]



Who dose the choreography then? Do you know if the other pro's do there own choreography? aND if you don't mind me asking how did you find out they didn't do there own chorography?

Ah ok. Would be interested if you find it. I do know a few people who compete and get the impression it is like baking a cake. Coaches (of which there may be a few) make suggestions, but as a couple you can ignore, take out, add in or whatever. Also, it may be that one person in the partnership is more dominant than the other in deciding on the choreography. So lots of factors. Also there is what you do outside competing, such as teaching, coaching others.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

Ah, the famous first dance with "no cha-cha in it" - let's do the same exercise:

Continuous lockstep, spot turn, ronde chasse, twist chasse, spot turn, lockstep, check, back lockstep to fan, underarm turn, ronde, swivels, walks and locksteps, continuous forward locksteps, spot turn, death spiral, turkish towels, cuban breaks...

Now I didn't say he danced it well, but it was all in the choreography. Perfectly reasonable content.

To compare, John Sergeant's cha-cha was: basics repeated in different directions, new yorkers, turkish towels, continuous locksteps and a type of swivel. So Scott's cha-cha had at least twice as many recognisable cha-cha steps.

I would have preferred that she showcase her celeb well not highlight skills she can do, and yes I do realise a LOT of the pros do this.

And with all those steps I would have preferred she attempt to teach her celeb to do at least one of them well. perhaps less content and more teaching basic steps well would have been the way to go

/internet crush

Hope you've found the 'dance questions' thread?

(As someone that dances/teaches a non syllabus partrner dance and has no knowledge of ballroom beyond the transferable physics of lead and follow and what I've learned through strictly and here, it is SO GOOD to see posts like yours. Now I have steps to research!)

On a purely practical note, the strictly pros probably don't get paid enough to regularly offload choreo duty beyond what is supplied by the show. If her parents/ballroom friends/brother are helping out well done to them. Any sensible person in a new job would ask for support from nearest and dearest, just because the new job is strictly, doesn't mean it isn't natural to get help and advice from those that have helped in the past.

New girl pros always get a tough time for their first season. Most recent Karen and Janette. Both have come through, I hope Ms Clifton does too

So a minute ago you were implying she didn't know her stuff and 'had a lot to learn' and now she is putting in too much content and not teaching her celeb? I have been a little 'on the fence' with Joanne - disappointed at some of her routines bearing in mind her reputation but recognising the difficulties in judging her skills as a teacher and choreographer when her celeb is so limited in ability. But a lot of her critics on here do seem to have an agenda to criticise (often from a very poor level of actual knowledge) whatever she does.

I agree with this. I'm ambivalent about her (though I loved her dress last night) and am finding the posts about her choreography in particular very funny.

Certain posters dislike the Cliftons and sometimes go a little over the top

I read it as coppertop saying that Joanne had a lot to learn about how to choreograph a routine as she'd not done it, not that she was unknowledgeable about dance content/steps

How amazing is Joanne's chorography??

Poor Joanne, I don't think we can really judge her chorography this series, I think the simple 'one two three' prove too much for Scott... she definitely did draw the short straw this year...LOL