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How amazing is Joanne's chorography?? |
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#51 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Ah, the famous first dance with "no cha-cha in it" - let's do the same exercise:
Continuous lockstep, spot turn, ronde chasse, twist chasse, spot turn, lockstep, check, back lockstep to fan, underarm turn, ronde, swivels, walks and locksteps, continuous forward locksteps, spot turn, death spiral, turkish towels, cuban breaks... Now I didn't say he danced it well, but it was all in the choreography. Perfectly reasonable content. To compare, John Sergeant's cha-cha was: basics repeated in different directions, new yorkers, turkish towels, continuous locksteps and a type of swivel. So Scott's cha-cha had at least twice as many recognisable cha-cha steps. I can't imagine picking up something so complex in such a short time (in fact often I spend whole lessons or sets of lessons on the same step. Lost count of lessons spent on feather.). Even so I have heard judges be very disparaging in a previous series about repeated choreography and so the pressure seems to be on the pros to keep it varied. You could limit the steps but that can also be confusing. Same step in different parts of the routine could lead to celeb losing their bookmark. |
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#52 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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Kristina's cha cha for John - before the rot set in
- was deemed charming and all that sort of stuff and that was her first series also - so it seems it could be a case of pitching the content for the celeb which some of the pros seem to pick up on sooner than others.I was just more interested in why the judges seemed to want to spend the lions share of the judging time talking about how great Joanne is?
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#53 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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I haven't read anything specific about Joanne but Brendan last week, on receiving praise for his VW choreography, deflected and said it was a joint effort with Anya, which suggests the choreography is (or at least can be) a bit of a team effort, if the pros want it to be. We all know Brendan is capable of choreographing a VW so it's not just a matter of "x can't choreograph, someone else can do it for them."
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#54 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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So a minute ago you were implying she didn't know her stuff and 'had a lot to learn' and now she is putting in too much content and not teaching her celeb? I have been a little 'on the fence' with Joanne - disappointed at some of her routines bearing in mind her reputation but recognising the difficulties in judging her skills as a teacher and choreographer when her celeb is so limited in ability. But a lot of her critics on here do seem to have an agenda to criticise (often from a very poor level of actual knowledge) whatever she does.
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I read it as coppertop saying that Joanne had a lot to learn about how to choreograph a routine as she'd not done it, not that she was unknowledgeable about dance content/steps
See, there's two perfectly reasonable interpretations of what coppertop said. I doubt coppertop thinks Joanne's knowledge of steps in inadequate. |
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#55 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Quote:
Kristina's cha cha for John - before the rot set in
- was deemed charming and all that sort of stuff and that was her first series also - so it seems it could be a case of pitching the content for the celeb which some of the pros seem to pick up on sooner than others.I was just more interested in why the judges seemed to want to spend the lions share of the judging time talking about how great Joanne is? ![]() |
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#56 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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I haven't read anything specific about Joanne but Brendan last week, on receiving praise for his VW choreography, deflected and said it was a joint effort with Anya, which suggests the choreography is (or at least can be) a bit of a team effort, if the pros want it to be. We all know Brendan is capable of choreographing a VW so it's not just a matter of "x can't choreograph, someone else can do it for them."
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#57 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I was just more interested in why the judges seemed to want to spend the lions share of the judging time talking about how great Joanne is?
![]() They acknowledge pro choreography when they like it and they think it flatters the celeb. For example, they have complimented both Brendan and Ola in this series, and probably others. Is the anti Joanne sentiment so strong on this forum, that she is not allowed to be complimented like other pros? |
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#58 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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I wonder if it helps to have a co-choreographer who is the same sex as the celeb? Anya with Brendan would be able to show Sunetra how it works from the female angle and also able to let Brendan know ways to tweak it to help Sunetra?
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#59 |
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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In the case of the weakest dancers, one could argue that their dancing will look the same whether they are doing the same step twenty times or twenty steps once. Personally I think it's good to stretch the celeb and give the dance a bit more variety, so long as they can get through the routine with no more than a few mistakes. No-one wants to see the celeb go blank in the middle, but equally no-one likes a boring and over-rehearsed routine. Fundamentally it's got to be entertaining and people have got to want to pick up the phone and vote, so the performance is at least as important as the technical choreography. To be fair to him, Scott hasn't gone wrong in his routines any more than most of the other celebs - he's just not such a good dancer. But he can put one foot in front of the other, stay on time and travel in the right direction. He's managed pretty complex routines in terms of the number of different actions and moves, including all the performance components, and he seems to have really enjoyed doing them. You can see from the training room footage that he's worked really hard and he clearly wanted to put the hours in.
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#60 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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It fills in time they would otherwise have to use to say things about Scott? There are only so many ways to say 'you can't dance'.
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#61 |
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#62 |
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Join Date: May 2008
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In the case of the weakest dancers, one could argue that their dancing will look the same whether they are doing the same step twenty times or twenty steps once. Personally I think it's good to stretch the celeb and give the dance a bit more variety, so long as they can get through the routine with no more than a few mistakes. No-one wants to see the celeb go blank in the middle, but equally no-one likes a boring and over-rehearsed routine. Fundamentally it's got to be entertaining and people have got to want to pick up the phone and vote, so the performance is at least as important as the technical choreography. To be fair to him, Scott hasn't gone wrong in his routines any more than most of the other celebs - he's just not such a good dancer. But he can put one foot in front of the other, stay on time and travel in the right direction. He's managed pretty complex routines in terms of the number of different actions and moves, including all the performance components, and he seems to have really enjoyed doing them. You can see from the training room footage that he's worked really hard and he clearly wanted to put the hours in.
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#63 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I read it as coppertop saying that Joanne had a lot to learn about judging what content to give to a weak celeb, as in that it would be better to give less content and hopefully by repeating a basic step someone like Scott could have a less varied routine but be better at it.
See, there's two perfectly reasonable interpretations of what coppertop said. I doubt coppertop thinks Joanne's knowledge of steps in inadequate. |
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#64 |
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New girl pros always get a tough time for their first season. Most recent Karen and Janette. Both have come through, I hope Ms Clifton does too ![]() |
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#65 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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She made Scott look so good!! Absulutly loved it. Would have voted but watching it late
![]() It really surprises me how many people still believe the pros choreograph the Charlestons, the salsas or the Argentine Tangos. They don't as they're not specialists in it (aside from Janette and salsa). They don't even choreograph all the standard dances - Brendan freely admitted a couple of weeks ago that Anya helped him with Viennese Waltz choreography! |
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#66 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Not at all (whether you're being serious or not). It wasn't her choreography.
It really surprises me how many people still believe the pros choreograph the Charlestons, the salsas or the Argentine Tangos. They don't as they're not specialists in it (aside from Janette and salsa). They don't even choreograph all the standard dances - Brendan freely admitted a couple of weeks ago that Anya helped him with Viennese Waltz choreography! |
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#67 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I'm really puzzled now. Posters seem to be stating as a fact that pros do not choreograph their ballroom and latin routines. It contradicts Tristan's interview. In particular they are stating as a fact that Joanne did not choreograph this routine. Does everyone have some inside knowledge I don't have? ............I doubt it.
All Brendan did was acknowledge Anya's help. Help being the operative word. It could have been a little bit. It could have been a lot. |
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#68 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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I'm really puzzled now. Posters seem to be stating as a fact that pros do not choreograph their ballroom and latin routines. It contradicts Tristan's interview. In particular they are stating as a fact that Joanne did not choreograph this routine. Does everyone have some inside knowledge I don't have? ............I doubt it.
All Brendan did was acknowledge Anya's help. Help being the operative word. |
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#69 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Quote:
Not at all (whether you're being serious or not). It wasn't her choreography.
It really surprises me how many people still believe the pros choreograph the Charlestons, the salsas or the Argentine Tangos. They don't as they're not specialists in it (aside from Janette and salsa). They don't even choreograph all the standard dances - Brendan freely admitted a couple of weeks ago that Anya helped him with Viennese Waltz choreography! |
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#70 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Quote:
I'm really puzzled now. Posters seem to be stating as a fact that pros do not choreograph their ballroom and latin routines. It contradicts Tristan's interview. In particular they are stating as a fact that Joanne did not choreograph this routine. Does everyone have some inside knowledge I don't have? ............I doubt it.
All Brendan did was acknowledge Anya's help. Help being the operative word. It could have been a little bit. It could have been a lot. |
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#71 |
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Quote:
I'm really puzzled now. Posters seem to be stating as a fact that pros do not choreograph their ballroom and latin routines. It contradicts Tristan's interview. In particular they are stating as a fact that Joanne did not choreograph this routine. Does everyone have some inside knowledge I don't have? ............I doubt it.
All Brendan did was acknowledge Anya's help. Help being the operative word. It could have been a little bit. It could have been a lot. |
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#72 |
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Yeah, I know. You're right. It does make sense when you put it like that!
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#73 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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Quote:
I'm really puzzled now. Posters seem to be stating as a fact that pros do not choreograph their ballroom and latin routines. It contradicts Tristan's interview. In particular they are stating as a fact that Joanne did not choreograph this routine. Does everyone have some inside knowledge I don't have? ............I doubt it.
All Brendan did was acknowledge Anya's help. Help being the operative word. It could have been a little bit. It could have been a lot. I've been racking my brain to try and recall specific instances, but I can't remember........ ![]() If it comes back to me I'll post again.
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#74 |
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The one that always stuck out for me was Camilla - she always seemed to be flitting around the training rooms after she was eliminated.
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#75 |
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Why are you puzzled? You know what this forum is like with most new female pros. Most people did not like her Cha Cha choreography, so people say its all Joanne's fault she is awful etc etc and nothing at all to do with Scott lack of dance ability. She gets praised for her foxtrot choreography so the same people say Joanne could never have choreographed it herself. Some people are desperate for her to fail and I have no idea why.
![]() * Except fish and chip shops, obviously. |
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- was deemed charming and all that sort of stuff and that was her first series also - so it seems it could be a case of pitching the content for the celeb which some of the pros seem to pick up on sooner than others.



If it comes back to me I'll post again.