I think that raises an interesting question. Do you repeat, in hoping to get a better quality dance, but potentially bore the viewer, or do you put in varied steps at the cost of quality? I think that's a really difficult dilemma to resolve and there isn't a right or wrong answer.

I can't imagine picking up something so complex in such a short time (in fact often I spend whole lessons or sets of lessons on the same step. Lost count of lessons spent on feather.). Even so I have heard judges be very disparaging in a previous series about repeated choreography and so the pressure seems to be on the pros to keep it varied. You could limit the steps but that can also be confusing. Same step in different parts of the routine could lead to celeb losing their bookmark.

Kristina's cha cha for John - before the rot set in - was deemed charming and all that sort of stuff and that was her first series also - so it seems it could be a case of pitching the content for the celeb which some of the pros seem to pick up on sooner than others.

I was just more interested in why the judges seemed to want to spend the lions share of the judging time talking about how great Joanne is?

I haven't read anything specific about Joanne but Brendan last week, on receiving praise for his VW choreography, deflected and said it was a joint effort with Anya, which suggests the choreography is (or at least can be) a bit of a team effort, if the pros want it to be. We all know Brendan is capable of choreographing a VW so it's not just a matter of "x can't choreograph, someone else can do it for them."

I read it as coppertop saying that Joanne had a lot to learn about judging what content to give to a weak celeb, as in that it would be better to give less content and hopefully by repeating a basic step someone like Scott could have a less varied routine but be better at it.

See, there's two perfectly reasonable interpretations of what coppertop said. I doubt coppertop thinks Joanne's knowledge of steps in inadequate.

It fills in time they would otherwise have to use to say things about Scott? There are only so many ways to say 'you can't dance'.

I wonder if it helps to have a co-choreographer who is the same sex as the celeb? Anya with Brendan would be able to show Sunetra how it works from the female angle and also able to let Brendan know ways to tweak it to help Sunetra?

They didn't. They acknowledge pro choreography when they like it and they think it flatters the celeb. For example, they have complimented both Brendan and Ola in this series, and probably others.

Is the anti Joanne sentiment so strong on this forum, that she is not allowed to be complimented like other pros?

Yes, I would think it probably does. We heard Thom (maybe Steve as well?) say that he'd been getting tips from some of the male pros as well.

In the case of the weakest dancers, one could argue that their dancing will look the same whether they are doing the same step twenty times or twenty steps once. Personally I think it's good to stretch the celeb and give the dance a bit more variety, so long as they can get through the routine with no more than a few mistakes. No-one wants to see the celeb go blank in the middle, but equally no-one likes a boring and over-rehearsed routine. Fundamentally it's got to be entertaining and people have got to want to pick up the phone and vote, so the performance is at least as important as the technical choreography. To be fair to him, Scott hasn't gone wrong in his routines any more than most of the other celebs - he's just not such a good dancer. But he can put one foot in front of the other, stay on time and travel in the right direction. He's managed pretty complex routines in terms of the number of different actions and moves, including all the performance components, and he seems to have really enjoyed doing them. You can see from the training room footage that he's worked really hard and he clearly wanted to put the hours in.

They don't usually struggle

Scott falls into the bracket of celebs who will stay as long as they stay regardless of the routine and/or its content.

And Copperto meant what Perdie says sorry for not making it clear . Off to work now so I can't confuse anyone else

Karen and janette still get outrageously insulted on the forum by some, as best i can tell its to do with them men they date, barely veiled behind random complaints about their dance credentials. Joanne will probably be caught up in the contempt directed at kevin. Still it gives kristina a bit of respite.

Not at all (whether you're being serious or not). It wasn't her choreography.

It really surprises me how many people still believe the pros choreograph the Charlestons, the salsas or the Argentine Tangos. They don't as they're not specialists in it (aside from Janette and salsa).

They don't even choreograph all the standard dances - Brendan freely admitted a couple of weeks ago that Anya helped him with Viennese Waltz choreography!

I agree - although he was a lot more reticent about challenging all the compliments he got for Sophie's Charleston (which he did not choreograph) last year! The judges often play into the fiction by complimenting the pros for routines they must full-well know have nothing much to do with them, so its not surprising that the public are confused. This is the first year I can remember any of the pros have (partially) admitted that they haven't even solely choreographed all their own 10 dances in more recent years (since the Burn the Floor brigade have started to dominate). It always tickles me when forum members rant about a certain pro's latin choreography , for e.g, and rave about others when both have used exactly the same team choreographer to help.

I'm really puzzled now. Posters seem to be stating as a fact that pros do not choreograph their ballroom and latin routines. It contradicts Tristan's interview. In particular they are stating as a fact that Joanne did not choreograph this routine. Does everyone have some inside knowledge I don't have? ............I doubt it.

All Brendan did was acknowledge Anya's help. Help being the operative word. It could have been a little bit. It could have been a lot.

"Help" is always the operative word, since none of the dances - even salsa, Charleston etc - are choreographed without the relevant pro's input (as you would expect, since they are most aware of their celebs strengths and weaknesses).

I was being serious. haha. Yep I really did love. If I hadn't been watching it late then I would have voted for him online. In all honest my favroits of tonight where Frankie and Kevin, Pixie and Trent, Steve and Ola, closely followed by Scott and Joanne !!

I agree with you. Thourghly confused. I know it was announced a while back that Anya would not be dancing but would help with chorography and presumably be a back up incase any pro got injured..

Why are you puzzled? You know what this forum is like with most new female pros. Most people did not like her Cha Cha choreography, so people say its all Joanne's fault she is awful etc etc and nothing at all to do with Scott lack of dance ability. She gets praised for her foxtrot choreography so the same people say Joanne could never have choreographed it herself. Some people are desperate for her to fail and I have no idea why.

Yeah, I know. You're right. It does make sense when you put it like that!

Harking back to Strictly days of yore, when we used to get way more training footage than we do now, I remember it was not infrequent that we saw eg male celebs being helped by 'spare' male pros who had been voted out of the competition.

I've been racking my brain to try and recall specific instances, but I can't remember........ If it comes back to me I'll post again.

The one that always stuck out for me was Camilla - she always seemed to be flitting around the training rooms after she was eliminated.

Nothing good ever came out of Grimsby* - that's an immutable law of nature, apparently.

* Except fish and chip shops, obviously.