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Are Doctor Who fans Racist/Sexist, or just afraid of change?


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Old 02-11-2014, 03:15
OrangeSubmarine
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I like how Doctor Who, which has always been a show which has been innovative & progressive with both it's plots and use of technology, still must stick with "traditional" values of the actors playing certain characters!

Before 2008, there had never been a non-white president. Does that mean it was wrong to vote one in?

Oh come on...sexist my arse. There are really good reasons for hating Mr. moffat's latest attempt to show us how clever he thinks he is.

Basically, Moffat is a coward. You would have had to have been living in a vacuum to have missed the PC push for a female doctor after Smith's departure.

Yes, it has been established quite an while ago that Time Lords can change gender. This isn't the first episode to say so.

Basically there has been a push for a female Time Lord on screen. No problem with that but...instead of giving us a real one Moffat opts for the cop out. He makes Missy sound EXACTLY LIKE ROMANA, right down to "Mistress.".

And then we get...female Master. Oh come on Moffat, do you not have the courage to bring back a real girl Time Lord??? I hate to even say it but the Rani would have been better. Anyone with a brain can see you setting the stage for a female Doctor.

So you can kindly shove the PC "you so sexist" crap. There is no reason why this Time Lady couldn't have been her own character. If this is Moffat's big shock it has failed big time. Give me back RTD's Professor Yana.
Given the amount of criticism he's opened himself up for, I don't think he's taken the cop-out option here. I'd say it's probably even the opposite.
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Old 02-11-2014, 03:18
James Frederick
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Given the amount of criticism he's opened himself up for, I don't think he's taken the cop-out option here. I'd say it's probably even the opposite.
He's getting blamed for a female Doctor before there even is one and one may not happen until he's long gone all he has done is open the door of possibility.
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:12
Stockingfiller
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The first Doctor I watched was William Hartnell so change, doesn't bother me. As for racism- to the contrary, I think that Doctor Who need not, be played by someone white.

Personally, I don't think it's sexist, to prefer that a unique male character be preserved rather than that character becoming a female character. Actually, I don't think that hijacking a male character role is, being feminist or acting in terms of diversity.

If someone wrote a character and series with a female lead and they were successful in being popular, loved and great to watch, I'd be very pleased indeed.

As someone who feels very strongly ie positively about feminism, I hope that women would want to be the best they, can rather than step into mens' shoes and that includes, insisting that male characters should be replaced by female ones.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:11
thebasilisk
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I think it's wrong to put the blame on Doctor Who fans, seeing that the reaction to last night's twist was (at least according to twitter) quite negative. There are hundreds of fans who have been asking for a female Doctor for years, and instead are given a female Master who snogs the Doctor. So far, Moffat has struggled to write a female character who wasn't in some way dependent on man: Amy's whole storyline was based around her love for Rory, River was merely the doctor's wife in the end, and all of last night's episode revolved around Clara's love interest dying. The only female character that nearly did "actual female human being not plot device" for me was Liz X, and I'm praying that her character doesn't go forgotten.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:35
Tom Tit
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Strong words. I'd stick with 'precious', 'childish', sometimes 'tasteless'. Mostly 'clueless' though.
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Old 02-11-2014, 07:59
Straker
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You found one that goes halfway. Nothing there about "a certain age". I was careful to say "exactly".

OP has posited a strawman with which to get enraged about as if all of Whodom is inherently sexist and racist (I`m sure most Who fans would welcome a non-white actor of the calibre of the oft-mentioned Idris Elba or the fantastic Colin Salmon). OP might have had a point to explore on the issue of changing the sex of The Doctor but to widen the net to racism is just poorly judged and betrays more about him than it does Whovians in general,
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:13
lanners
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How about we revamp James Bond and he''s got a daughter who takes over called Jane, or Indiana has a daughter and she takes over. The Doctor has always been a man and should stay that way. If she'd always been a woman then I'd still have the same opinion that she should always stay a woman thats how sexest I am.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:16
lanners
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How about we revamp James Bond and he''s got a daughter who takes over called Jane, or Indiana has a daughter and she takes over. The Doctor has always been a man and should stay that way. If she'd always been a woman then I'd still have the same opinion that she should always stay a woman thats how sexest I am.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:19
Straker
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How about we revamp James Bond and he''s got a daughter who takes over called Jane, or Indiana has a daughter and she takes over.
Then both of those would be something other than James Bond and Indiana Jones because they wouldn`t even be the same characters, they`d be spin-offs.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:43
Talma
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OP has posited a strawman with which to get enraged about as if all of Whodom is inherently sexist and racist (I`m sure most Who fans would welcome a non-white actor of the calibre of the oft-mentioned Idris Elba or the fantastic Colin Salmon). OP might have had a point to explore on the issue of changing the sex of The Doctor but to widen the net to racism is just poorly judged and betrays more about him than it does Whovians in general,
I agree. The 'Doctor could change gender' thing was done to death on here before Capàldi was announced and to throw words like sexism or racism around again is just a big yawn.
I'm not bothered about his ethnicity but he's a male. If I want to watch a series about a strong, adventurous, good or bad female Timelord I'd like a new one (or old one revamped) to find out more about them, not as the same character I've known for almost 51 years who is absolutely unique in Timelord history.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:25
James Frederick
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Amy's whole storyline was based around her love for Rory
Which Amy was you watching the Amy I saw couldn't have made it more clear how much she couldn't stand Rory and treated him like something she had just trodden in.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:28
James Frederick
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You found one that goes halfway. Nothing there about "a certain age". I was careful to say "exactly".

OP has posited a strawman with which to get enraged about as if all of Whodom is inherently sexist and racist (I`m sure most Who fans would welcome a non-white actor of the calibre of the oft-mentioned Idris Elba or the fantastic Colin Salmon). OP might have had a point to explore on the issue of changing the sex of The Doctor but to widen the net to racism is just poorly judged and betrays more about him than it does Whovians in general,
I found one from last night but over the years it's not the first time it's been said even last night others said they didn't want a black Doctor he female Doctor as it goes against everything The Doctor is.

The age thing is different some like a old Doctor others like a young Doctor and most don't care.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:34
jimbo_bob
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Strong words. I'd stick with 'precious', 'childish', sometimes 'tasteless'. Mostly 'clueless' though.
Ah, you beat me to it. Those are the words I would have used
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:38
jimbo_bob
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Which Amy was you watching the Amy I saw couldn't have made it more clear how much she couldn't stand Rory and treated him like something she had just trodden in.
I saw that too. If my wife tried to treat me how Amy treated Rory, she would have been kicked out faster than one could say "The Master's a woman??" Which, incedently, is excellent.

I'm now looking forward to a black Doctor.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:52
Michael_Eve
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Strong words. I'd stick with 'precious', 'childish', sometimes 'tasteless'. Mostly 'clueless' though.
Don't be so hard on yourself.










Couldn't resist. It was an open goal. Which I guess proves 'childish' , in my case, anyway!
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:29
LightMeUp
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Strong words. I'd stick with 'precious', 'childish', sometimes 'tasteless'. Mostly 'clueless' though.
Let's forget wildly impossible to please.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:05
KezM
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How about we revamp James Bond and he''s got a daughter who takes over called Jane, or Indiana has a daughter and she takes over. The Doctor has always been a man and should stay that way. If she'd always been a woman then I'd still have the same opinion that she should always stay a woman thats how sexest I am.
Indeed. I always put the shoe on the other foot before deciding if something is sexist. A character was conceived as being a grumpy grandma crossed with Mrs Claus and has been female for fifty years and 13 regenerations albeit with various personality changes would I suddenly want her to be male? Nope no more than I would want her to stop having a humanoid appearance or grow fur or whiskers.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:11
James Frederick
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Nope no more than I would want her to stop having a humanoid appearance or grow fur or whiskers.
Time Lords do not have to look human that was established 35 years ago


Romana got to pick her new body and here are the choices.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bnUU2wLACr...generation.jpg
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:17
KezM
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Time Lords do not have to look human that was established 35 years ago


Romana got to pick her new body and here are the choices.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bnUU2wLACr...generation.jpg
indeed which is my point. I don't see many crying for a non humanoid doctor. Where were all the people demanding Capaldi should be made up or stuck in an alien suit when he was cast just because it could be done!
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:19
James Frederick
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indeed which is my point. I don't see many crying for a non humanoid doctor. Where were all the people demanding Capaldi should be made up or stuck in an alien suit when he was cast just because it could be done!
It would only be a make up problem for time reasons but if they wanted to go that route I wouldn't have a problem with it and it may even be a interesting twist.
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:41
trollface
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This is a series which promotes tolerance and acceptance, and which has been about change right from the start. It always amazes me when fans of this series are intolerant of change.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:14
iamsofired
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Just hyper criticial in general, but its the same with all "fandoms".
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:16
Crocodile Tears
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James Frederick is trolling.
Using inflammatory words like "racism"/ "sexism" to stir things up.

Personally, I'm open to the idea of a doctor of different ethnicity/gender (IF that actor is the best choice, as opposed to diversity for the sake of it) but I certainly wouldn't accuse anyone of "sexism" or "racism" for not being open to it.
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:18
James Frederick
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James Frederick is trolling.
Using inflammatory words like "racism"/ "sexism" to stir things up.

Personally, I'm open to the idea of a doctor of different ethnicity/gender (IF that actor is the best choice, as opposed to diversity for the sake of it) but I certainly wouldn't accuse anyone of "sexism" or "racism" for not being open to it.
I have never used those words
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Old 02-11-2014, 12:30
alfster
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I don't know maybe different people have different reasons but I don't see why they can't do it.

But the funniest argmunt I read on here today was if The Doctor can be played by a female or a black actor then a black man should be able to play Queen Victoria as there is no difference.

Ps
The person who posted that was being 100% serious to.
The RSC has cast a black actor to play Henry VI; David Oyelowo who is a stonkingly good actor.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/s...fiachragibbons
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