Cremation or burial ?

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johnnysaucepn

03-11-2014

Originally Posted by Gene the Cow:
“But cybermen don't need the minds. In fact it's the first thing they get rid of during conversion. All they want are bodies”

Well, they want brains, and they want minds. What they don't want is emotion.

Gene the Cow

03-11-2014

Yeah fair do's it was quite late!

The_Judge_

03-11-2014

Originally Posted by The_Judge_:
“I may be the only one thinking this - but all the stuff about cremation and the dead still feeling everything their original real self is experience was just a load of bull fed to the souls in the Nethersphere, it fits in with all the lies they are told - that they are in some glorious city etc.

I believe that actually - they are sucked into the matrix
fed sensations of coldness as part of convincing them they have died and are slowly coaxed into letting go of their previous lives, to give in and accept death, and to let go of all emotions (press the delete button). The cremation line is probably given to every new person to join, its either part of the psychological threat to help speed them along towards the decision of pressing delete, or in fact is part of the actual "upgrade" process - a searing burning sensation as the upgraded mind is plucked out of the matrix back into the upgraded body.

i.e. The stories of cremation etc are just a cover story along with all the other falseties told to the newly acquired minds in the Matrix.”

Missy also says something like all the dead are about to burn in the final scene outside St. Pauls - so it has to be related to the "upgrade" and actually the show isn't suggesting the dead know whats happening to their real selves - its just a ruse told to them by Seb et al when they enter the nethersphere ....
My opinion ...

johnnysaucepn

03-11-2014

My take on it is that it's probably true - it's a hint that some of the deceased still have 'connections' to their bodies, and possibly a hint that Danny could be put back. The cold place is obviously most likely to be a morgue, or a grave, but it could easily also be a dark water tank.

Corwin

03-11-2014

Originally Posted by The_Judge_:
“Missy also says something like all the dead are about to burn in the final scene outside St. Pauls -”

She says all the Graves of Planet Earth are about to give Birth.

Nothing to do with burning.

The next stage of her plan seemingly involves bringing about a Zombie Apocalypse and then turning the Zombies into Cybermen.

kitthekat

03-11-2014

Originally Posted by Corwin:
“She says all the Graves of Planet Earth are about to give Birth.

Nothing to do with burning.

The next stage of her plan seemingly involves bringing about a Zombie Apocalypse and then turning the Zombies into Cybermen.”

Actually I'm sure I remember a line about the people of the Earth burning, too.

I don't think she actually meant that literally the graves of Planet Earth would give birth - i.e. zombies - I think she was being poetic and meant that the dead that she'd harvested in the Nethersphere and the Dark Water (i.e. the graves) were coming back to the planet as Cybermen to fight (i.e. giving birth).

Virgil Tracy

03-11-2014

the Mummy episode must be connected with all this , plus it was another 3-letter character : GUS .

.

Corwin

03-11-2014

Originally Posted by kitthekat:
“
I don't think she actually meant that literally the graves of Planet Earth would give birth -”

What is supposedly a Promo Image for Death in Heaven.

Look in front of the Doctor.

kitthekat

03-11-2014

Originally Posted by Corwin:
“What is supposedly a Promo Image for Death in Heaven.

Look in front of the Doctor.”

Okay, but I still maintain it's a metaphor. It would be difficult to convey how this version of the Cybermen came about on a promo image - and arguably, it would be something of a spoiler since it's not been confirmed yet in the episodes - so by having a Cyberman's hand raising up from beneath the earth, they're presenting a link between the dead and the Cybermen without explicitly saying it.
It seems strange, also, that it was pointed out throughout the series that people (soldiers usually too, if you think about Journey Blue and the Mummy, not to mention the focus on Danny's previous occupation) appeared in the Nethersphere when they died, if the Master/Mistress was going to take everyday people out of their graves.

I'm happy to be proven wrong on Saturday, and will apologise if so, but I think with Steven Moffat you can be lulled into taking the simple route (and on the other hand, some of his stories and the symbolism therein lead you to over-think too!)

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