Eh, they already said exactly that.

What they haven't said yet is how she got off Gallifrey again.

I do remember the tale of a writer for a newspaper comic strip who was fired, but the paper made the mistake of letting hime do one last installment for the Friday edituon. The final panel showed the hero wrapped in chains, handcuffed and attached by leg-rons to a huge concrete block and thrown into the seaubli
The new writer scratched his head for a way out. He searched previous strips for a mention - any mention - of some decice, some trick, that would allow the hero to escape. Nothing. Saturday became Sunday, and as the deadline for publication approached, the editor was forced to hire back the old writer.

He sat at the drawing board, and produced a single panel. The hero, unencumbered, ascending through the water, trailing a cloud of bubbles. A simple caption: "With one mighty bound, Jack was free".

"But you haven't explained how Jack is free," the editor objected.

"Yes I have," said the writer. "It was with one mighty bound"

"But that's just a throw-away line," was the editor's response.

"No," the writer replied. "It's not a throw-away line, it's an expkanation. FACT."

It was horrid and nasty. I'm actually surprised so many fans are squeeing themselves over it.

I thought they said that she had a TARDIS?

Well obviously.

The unexplained bit is how he got from presumably the High Council Chamber (which was full of the High Council) to the TARDIS Docks and exactly at what point along the way did he regenerate into his current form.

Missy Dead...?
I'm really not happy that it appears they have killed Missy off. I doubt the doctor teleported her to safety using the device he was pointing at her given the look of surprise that was on his face as she was shot by the brigadier. Either way I'll be disappointed if she never comes back or disappointed if she returns from what looks like such a definite end.

It's a mistake I believe in killing of such a well delivered interpretation of the Master. Michelle Gomez did such a good job (bananas!)

Brigadier Iron Man...?
So what's next for Brigadier Iron Man? Whilst I enjoyed this whole part I think it's a mistake to leave Brigadier Iron Man alive, as-is, and in the show. Having a 'goodie cyberman' on earth detracts from the creditability of the cybermen in my mind as a villains going forward. We might as well upgrade all of UNIT into Cyber-Tony Starks otherwise.

Well, I thought that was brilliant. Missy's idea to subvert the Doctor was far more interesting than many other 'let's dominate the world' type schemes. It's the most original idea the (Master/Mistress) has had in many years.

That may well be the excuse, that it's all happening offscreen.
However it's important for the viewer to actually see some sort of interpretation of that onscreen for it to work dramatically. It's important for the story to create something visual that makes us feel that sense of peril.

The newborns fumbling around and waking up was good, because it serves to build up suspense and a sense of tension. It felt like it was building up to something. But there was no payoff.

I agree and was thinking, don't tell us, show us, when the Doctor and Missy were discussing it.

I think that if Moffat treated the Cybermen with the same care and attention he invests into his Weeping Angels it could potentially provide one of the great stories of New Who.
Just think about the effort he goes to to try to make The Angels creepy, scary, and usually uses them in very suspenseful episodes. You know the ones I mean. Then imagine what he could do with The Cybermen.
But he just doesn't. And I don't know why.

Although I wasn't a fan of all RTD stories I do think he tried to look at The Cybermen in interesting ways and actually attempted to explore them. I'm not getting that with Moffat. With Moffat it feels like he just treats them as machine servants who are there just for trimmings on the side while he concentrates on a wider plot involving other characters which he treats as the more important story. I'm not saying that RTD's Cybermen stories were great either, I'm just saying that he at least looked a bit deeper into what they might be like as sentient beings.

I'm still waiting for a great Cyberman story. There's been a couple of good Dalek ones. But The Cybermen haven't been served well.
Moffat is more than capable of doing it and that's why it's so frustrating that he doesn't seem to be bothering to.

If you consider how the Cybermen were used in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, I think they were given a much better deal this time around. In that pair of episodes they were very much second fiddle to the Cult of Skaro and the comedy element, this time they were the threat and Missy was the light relief.

His portrait on the wall was fine for me. It felt like a dignified and respectful nod to him.
But he's now a Cyberman, saving his daughter's life, when he's supposed to be functioning in a hive mind, which to me is just stupid, and makes me cringe. It somehow undermines the effectiveness of any good work done and just diminishes the memory of what is supposed to be a highly regarded character.

OTOH in some of their later appearances, the Weeping Angels became a bit silly. (I'm still trying to pretend that nonsense with the Statue of Liberty never happened!)

Moffat's biggest strength as a DW writer is also his biggest weakness: He's brilliant at thinking up new aliens for one-off stories - but not so good at finding new ways to use and explore existing aliens, even if they're ones he created in the first place!

I don't agree. Certainly it seemed like it was building up that way. However all that was ruined when The Cybermen were turned into a joke enemy again when Missy was telling them to do star jumps, hop on one leg, and play Simon Says or whatnot. Then Missy was offering them to The Doctor as a gift like they were nothing.
That's how this story treated an iconic Doctor Who enemy.

I think I'd rather not have any Cybermen again rather than have them used as such a rubbish foe again in another story.
Even The Slitheen or The Adipose seem to be a bigger threat than The Cybermen.
Let's face it, The Cybermen in New Who are just shit.

Yes, and as a direct comparison to the Cybermen waking up scene last night a good contrast would be The Daleks waking up in that scene from Asylum of The Daleks. Something to do with 'eggs'.
That was done so well, and the moment they woke up was truly chilling. That was a good payoff to a build-up I thought.

Tomb of the cybermen is on later today on UK drama. That's how the Cybermen should be used. Their use in the new series particularly in death in heaven is pathetic. Enjoyed the series up to in the forest of the night but feel its ruined by the two part finale. Too much death and nonsense in it.

I have missed half the series because I got bored but decided to tune in to the final.

Really wish I'd not bothered.

Have to say, Michelle Gomez was outstanding. Seriously loved her, she stole every scene with ease. And I still love Peter and Jenna.

But the writing is just cringeworthy. Astoundingly so. Moffat seems to have disappeared so far up his own arse and be so full of himself he has forgotten this show doesn't just exist in his head. People actually watch this and pay money to do so. If I were him I'd honestly feel ashamed to have had the BBC spend the millions on it that they have. Surely he can't have watched that back and thought 'Yes, that's excellent!' I've seen better stories in my 7 year old cousins homework book.

Cyber men, not one, but two ignoring their programming and saving their loved ones. Are we to assume the rest had no loved ones at all? Or is it just that those two were just super special?

One of the classic who villains turned into puppets doing an flight attendant run through. Are we in future supposed to find them scary? If so how? Surely one amongst them will have a loved one? And love saves all apparently.

And why the cybermen? Zero reasons given as to why Missy decided to make a cyberman army. Seemingly just an excuse to have them on screen. And turn them into pointless robots.

Danny Pink was a complete waste of screen time. He was the ultimate in boring with zero redeeming qualities. Even as a cyber an he was an uninteresting, arrogant gobshite. Calling the Doctor an officer? The man had just spent a thousand years fighting on the front line of a war. And yet because Danny spent a few years in the army he feels qualified to judge a man that's a few thousand years old and has saved more people and worlds than Danny could even comprehend? Shut up you prattling idiotic moron.

And the love story between Danny and Clara was utterly unbelievable. Look at Amy and Rory. Fan or not you actually believed they truly loved each other. Rory had waited his entire life for Amy and when it came down to it Amy chose him over everyone and everything. Maybe I don't find it believable because I am genuinely dumbfounded as to what Clara found likeable about someone with zero personality? My dog has more charm and charisma. And yet we're expected to believe he was the love of her life and she's utterly devastated. And that his live for her was so strong even cyberman programming couldn't undo it. Oh shut up.

St George's Hall is bigger on the inside? I actually cringed.

A boy who in Danny's own words 'died a long time ago' made flesh again by a bracelet? Sent over from Danny from what we are to assume is the afterlife? Erm. Okay.

The entire thing was absolutely awful, I mean genuinely dire. And it's a shame because the cast deserve so much better.

When I think back to the likes of Stolen Earth and Journeys end as finales. It saddens me just how far down the show has sunk.

Okay, sorry for the rant. And I realise I am in the minority. But I am honestly upset to see what was once my absolute favourite TV show turned into whatever the hell that was.

yep here is the thread, WHERES THE POLL

I like the way Good and Evil are now mixed up and intertwined. Nothing is entirely one or the other. Its a maturity to the myth of the hero.

And i like the fact Moffat has used more women directors in one series than were used in the entire run of 50years! Thats a real achievement and rectifies one of the major criticisms against the show. Its long overdue.

Its been a great series, one of the best, and Capaldi stands up there as one of the best, given this is his initiatory year!

Hmm the more I think about the finale the more I'm very disappointed with it.

Anyway just about to see Interstellar, hopefully that's good!

I enjoyed it, The Iron-Cybermen tearing apart the plane, The Master/Missy actually being a killer without reason, plot wise it was actually fairly basic, people questioning Why certain things just need to look at Missy, she did this as a birthday present, what a crazy psycho, the ending did drag on slightly, but it was worth it for the "I found Gallifrey" scene, Murray Gold knocked it out of the park for the music in that scene, especially when The Doctor starts hitting the TARDIS control panel in anger.

The Cybermen have always been rubbish. Humans converted into cyborgs is now such a boring trope idea that it's extremely difficult to make it interesting.

The scary, exciting part about Cybermen is when they activate and that was done wonderfully in Dark Water, as it was in Tomb of the Cybermen. After that they're just metal men stomping around in a vaguely stupid looking way. What remaining fear factor they may have remaining is crushed entirely by our familiarity with them.

Moffat gave them the best possible treatment. But they're a dud. They've been an outdated, played-out concept since the 1970s.

Cybermen are boring, boring, boring. If they'd never been created by Kitt Peddler and Gerry Davis in the 60s they wouldn't be created now because the idea would be thrown out for being old and tired. Their use by date was long, long ago.

For about the first 47 minutes of the 56 minute show I was really enjoying it, but there was too much stuff that simply didn't make sense after the "You win/I know" exchange. I'd give it three out of five.

Much like RTD at The Stolen Earth/Journey's End, I think we are at the point of diminishing returns for Moffat plotting Dr Who.

Sorry if it's been posted earlier, by did they ever explain why Cyber-Pink needed his emotions turned off? Wouldn't this be the default setting for all new cyber men?

I don't mean why did it need turning off to access the ' hive mind ', I'm willing to just accept that, by why it wasn't off from the moment of creation.

Overall, I enjoyed Dark Water/Death In Heaven and I'm really looking forward to the Christmas episode!

Only two things displeased me with DIH:

1. It wasn't really explained how the Master's bracelet allowed a long-dead boy to come back to life.

2. I didn't like the Brig coming back as a Cyberman. It seemed very forced and unnecessary. They should've left the reference to the Brigadier with the portrait on the plane.