A post that actually does deserve its own thread and it will, sadly, be buried for ever in the crap cascade that is the episode discussion thread. Alas!!

I'm just glad their boots didn't have laces!!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZNUdpril8U...nap-480505.png

http://io9.com/all-of-doctor-whos-bi...lar-1656439341

Pretty much sums it up 'nicely'.

What makes you say that they are an outdated trope? Not exactly the same thing but the Iron Man films seem to be doing rather well.

Even though the effects don't hold up now. I actually found the original Cybermen walking in front of St. Paul's scene far more impressive than the version re-created last week.

I agree with sonicsocks says too about the design of the Cybermen. I found the Borg in Star Trek looked far more sinister as cyborgs go.

There's lots of great ideas and analysis there. And also a lot that people obviously didn't pick up by watching it which is a fault of the writer, not the viewer. It's the writer's job to get these things across with clarity (show don't tell!) and I think for me this series has just highlighted that characters really aren't Moffat's strong point hence why attempting a character led series felt flat for me

In an earlier episode we saw the grandson of Clara and Danny. Presumably she's pregnant now otherwise that episode couldn't have happened.

I'm sure it's possible that Danny will be resurrected but in a different time, ie the future. Although I don't know how he'd get hold of the tin soldier. That would be a good twist for the Christmas special.

Spot on Jimbo, I absolutely agree with the sentiments in your post.
I've been a big fan for 41 of my 47 years, and I have always enjoyed Doctor Who.
I'm not shallow, not a sheep, not a Moffat boot-licker, I'm a regular person who generally enjoys a generally enjoyable TV programme.

I genuinely can't see what people get out of ripping each episode apart and finding fault with everything. It's not like your views will change anything. The programme is made, finished, broadcast - Moffat isn't going to re-edit the thing just to satisfy rabid angry fans. How negative, how miserable, how empty are these people's lives if they want to spend hours and hours painstakingly picking apart a TV show that mostly gives enjoyment to millions across the world. Yes, discussion can be fascinating, but posts saying things like "That Was Crap" add nothing to this forum, and achieve nothing either, other than satisfying the poster's ego. If you think it was crap at least have the sense to back up your point of view.

Yes, there are always faults, in everything we see and do, every day of the year. Nothing is perfect.

But Doctor Who is a lovingly made programme, helmed by dedicated and passionate people and it appeals to people young and old, worldwide. I can't think of a single other TV programme with such a vast appeal as Doctor Who, and I'm proud to be a fan of this show.

And I'm disappointed by the extreme negativity and hatred directed at the show by some people who claim to be fans. I genuinely don't understand why, if you hated something so much, you'd masochistically put yourself through the sheer torture of watching every week. There's hundreds of TV shows I don't like, but I don't waste my life bitching about them on internet forums. I simply don't watch. I really cannot understand the need for some 'fans' to put themselves through hell each week and then bring down everyone who's enjoyed the show by their constant moaning.
Please, find something constructive to do with your lives.

It does indeed.

I have to say that I don't buy that the concept behind the Mastress picking Clara was that strong..I'd have left that alone if I was Moff..it was another over promise under deliver piece from him.

I really dont get this :

Missy's Cyber-zombies have flown up into the sky, all over the world, and exploded into black clouds of "Cyber-pollen" (don't ask), which has rained down onto the world's graveyards and assorted funeral parlors, reanimating the dead of humanity and turning them all into more Cyber-zombies. But the clouds are still there, and Danny reveals that the clouds are going to rain down more Cyber-pollen and kill all living humans, turning them into more Cyber-zombies.

The only way to stop the clouds from killing all of humanity is for the Doctor to accept Missy's "gift."

How would the Doctor accepting the gift stop the rain. I'm not clear on Missus argument here.

I hope he isn't. I liked Danny, but sometimes it would be nice if a dead character could stay dead. However, in a slightly hypercritical comment, I would like to see the Missy?Master back - she was deliciously evil

I really liked your whole post Gene as you highlighted some of the real weaknesses of the story. As much as I liked parts of the story mostly due to the main actors ( bar danny pink ) performances) the reasoning of the master/ missy wanting his friend back was quite odd/ weak.

BIB Really liked your idea, much stronger than the actual story we got . The doctor is a good man and not an idiot with a box despite what the script said ! I'm disappointed that we didn't get to know why the Master changed gender or how he escaped Gallifrey too.

The recruitment of Clara by the Master seems like a tagged on idea this year as last season with the 'impossible girl' story she went to great lengths to help the Doctor
and there's no foreshadowing of the 'control freak' Clara we got this year.

Oh, absolutely. It's not an iconic moment that will never be bettered for nothing. Plus, Invasion had the immortal line from the Doctor "Look, Jamie, sandwiches". Still makes me laugh every time I hear it.

After the excellent Dark Water I am not sure where to begin with Death in Heaven. I think about what I want to write but for some reason I am unable to get beyond 'an insulting, illogical, poorly plotted and written mess'

I found myself watching this episode as I would an episode of The Apprentice, mouth open at the sheer incompetence of it all, especially the excruciating, clichéd and wooden CyberDanny scenes. Awful.

Beyond Michelle Gomez stunning 'Im going to kill you in a minute' scene and Capaldi's Doctor smashing the crap out of the TARDIS console the rest was an absolute disaster on all levels.

I love that our so-called "old Doctor" has been so action hero

Nothing changes.

That's a good read. And what a great screen cap!

Seb: Squeeeeee!

Master (peed off, thinks) Won't bother with the say something nice routine this time. I'll just kill him."

Overall impressed with it 12 had his light bulb moment."I'm an idiot!". Missy was a great baddie somehow I doubt we have seen the last of her!. Poor Osgood and Danny.Brave and kind of him to sacrafice going back to Clara so the boy could return to life and his parents. Hope 12 and Clara have a good christmas. Thought the creatures in the railer looked a bit like the xenomorphs from Allien. 12 has teamed up with father christmas guess it will have extra jingle bells this year!. Look forward to it allready.

I thought it was the pollen/rain? I don't think blood was in the plot at all.

I chuckled aloud a few times when I saw your error being pointed out. I kept stopping then thinking about it again and laughing. What is wrong with me?

I did wonder both of those things too, especially as most people are probably buried near their families, but I guess we didn't see every Cyberman. Maybe there were other Cybermen who also broke orders. Idk though, I don't like Cybermen having feelings. It made sense at first with Danny as he hadn't deleted his feelings but post-inhibitor Danny and the Brig don't to me.

Where's the poll?

Explained at the end of the episode in the Christmas preview...'North'

I do wish people would watch properly before asking daft questions...

Five whole paras criticising the critics for criticising, namecalling them "moaning, miserable, empty, bitching, negative masochists". Irony fans are LOVING that!

What you missed in your spittle-flecked rant is that most who loathed this finale were big fans of previous eps in this latest series. But to recognise that light and shade negates your polarised either/or stance doesn`t it?

Hmmm... Missy's bracelet is probably based on Gallifreyan tech, and the Galifreyan Matrix hard drive is definitely based on it. We already know that Gallifreyan tech can turn data into physical objects and vice versa (e.g. the TARDIS interior.)

So the bracelet created the living physical body for the virtual reality boy in the hard drive. However, the bracelet must've been configured specifically for Missy's body pattern (it was mentioned in dialogue that she used it to transfer herself physically in and out of the virtual reality) and so that's probably why it could only be used once to create a body for someone else.

(The other possibility is that it was a faulty bracelet, like the TARDIS's faulty chameleon circuit, and when the Master tried to transfer himself out of the sphere after his first visit, he was as surprised as anyone to find that he was now in a woman's body! )

Aye up, the paragraph police are out again...

Loved your 'runny dead dog poo' post BTW!!

You've not spent much time exploring the rest of the Digital Spy Forums then. The Doctor Who board is restrained and cheerful compared to all the bitterness and hatred on some of the the reality TV forums.