The morning after and still no poll. Whats going on??

Anyway, when the eventual poll does appear, I think I'll be voting 'good'. It was an interesting episode overall, and was exciting, but had more than a few patchy dialogue moments which fall apart the more I think about them which stop me from going any higher.

I've loved the Moffat era and Dark Water was incredible.

However, I found Death In Heaven to be really flat. There were a few good moments - Doctor realising who he is, Missy's scenes - but I was disappointed. After last week's build up I was expecting it to go somewhere, that moment to happen but it never really did.

The Cybermen conversion was good but then they didn't do much, the CyberBrig just didn't sit right with me and the goodbye with Clara was very sudden but I expect she'll be back.

I reckon I need to watch it again to try and find some more positives.

That should have been the story though quixoctduck.

Humanity finding the flaw in The Master's whole uploading/downloading shenanigins. The conscious minds of everyone that has ever lived being the virus in the Nethersphere.

Instead what we got was typical of Moffat's characters, especially his arc characters. They simply are not 'real' people. Danny Pink, given the short time he has known her, loves Clara Oswald more than anyone has ever loved another person that has ever lived...EVER...apart from the Brig that is, who loves his daughter more than any other father could possibly love their daughter.

... and both soldiers with a link to the Doctor.

I only watched the last episode this morning, as I was out last night. One question: the Doctor went to Gallifrey and opened the door to blackness. What was that all about? Did the Master destroy Gallifrey? Or was it only night-time?

Liked the reference to Thunderbirds - or rather, Captain Scarlet. "Bow ties are cool". Clara saying she always liked the 23rd of November. The Bond-like skydive with Bond-ish music. The portrait of the Brigadier in the plane. The moment when Kate realised that if the dead are rising, so might her father. And, of course, the Doctor's final salute to his old friend.

Didn't like Osgood being killed off. Really unnecessary.

And the brig loves that Danny love clara. Also Clara loves that Kate loves her father the brig so much.

Hi this is my 1st post as Im normally quite happy just to read others opinions but I was SO disappointed with that finale I feel I have to express that!

I've been a massive doctor who fan since Tom baker yrs and adored Eccleston, Tennant and Smith playing the doctor but confess not keen on Capaldi! Wasn't even sure i wud watch the series but he's grown on me ( he will never be my fave tho)and I've really enjoyed every episode- until the finale! Sooo disappointed I was really expecting some sort of twist with Clara and I still don't get why missy put them together?? It's the most underwhelmed I've felt with a final which is why ive posted! Obviously everyone has there own opinion so wanted to express mine. Thanks

I find the professional reviews on the Guardian, Independent and Telegraph websites to be generally warmer, interesting to read and better written than some of the posts on this site and would recommend reading those instead! On a separate note am a bit disappointed I missed the credit change and image of Clara's eyes in the credits. That passed me. Also, while I was sorry to think that this might be Clara's last appearance, have picked up on the fact that she might be in Xmas episode so that's good (this forum does have some uses).

Well, had a rewatch and would vote, if possible, Good. Very enjoyable and the positives outweighed the negatives. Capaldi, Coleman et al were very good, but think Michelle Gomez was the standout. The Osgood scene was genuinely quite disturbing. It was terribly sad seeing the Doctor and Clara lying to each other, both for the best of reasons, in their 'farewell' scenes. And Capaldi's dialogue free performance as the Doctor followed the Master's coordinates and found nothing gave me a shiver.

Voted Dark Water excellent and didn't think this was as effective generally, but it was blinking good fun with enough great moments to make me grin, from the opening titles on. (Capaldi has been singing Coleman's praises so sure would've been cool with the billing and the eyes! Only once, mind. Actually, he's so cool it might've been his idea.)

Sent over from the powering down Nethersphere (as said in the episode).

The Minds of all the Cybermen reverted back to the Nethersphere when their bodies were destroyed but the Nethersphere was shutting down so they would all be gone soon.

The Bracelet was Timelord tech that converted a physical object into Data so it could enter the Nethersphere and vice versa when leaving the Nethersphere.



See above





Missy told him it would be at those co ordinates but when he went there it was just empty space so she had been lying.

No idea, they seem to ignoring poll requests this week.

For what it's worth this is how the poll on GB is looking atm:

10 - 27.77%
9 - 21.13%
8 - 17.62%
7 -10.23%
6 - 5.33%
5 - 3.25%
4 - 2.32%
3 - 5.45%
2 - 2.75%
1 - 4.14%

Oh the explanations are definitely there. They're just shoddy and frankly daft. It was all a matter of convenience rather than giving the universe of the show some weight and logic.

It's something that definitely can become an issue with sci-fi writing - you CAN just keep making things up to solve any problem. You can always say 'there's a device that does that!' But at some point you do go beyond the audience's suspension of disbelief. The device was little more than a McGuffin to allow Moffat to have the plot he wanted and whilst that doesn't leave plot holes it does leave the thing feeling rather shallow and dissatisfying.

Why thank you, a positive reaction to one of my posts - that's being framed and going on my wall

I find it ironic that the more an episode is hated on here, the more it is liked by the general viewing public.

I agree with all your post but especially the bit in bold. What an awful end for such an iconic figure as the Brig. I am full sure if Sarah-Jane was dead on the show he would have done it (or something equally awful) to her too.


This is what I have hated most about this series. Yes, I do know that it was deliberate and meant to be an exploration of the Doctor having an army but never getting his hands dirty but never before has the Doctor been so uninvolved and I think he did more harm than good to his characterisation.


BIB - I thought it was a strategic mistake because it reminded us of what the Doctor was like when he did give a damn and it made me sad that so much has changed and not in a good way.


That was not my sole intention sitting down to watch this finale. I was excited and I wanted to love it. I was very sad that I didn't and felt very flat after it.


I already knew he was on board for series 9 but I hope with all my heart that it will be his last.

Be fair, it had already been established many times over that Gallifreyan tech can convert data to physical matter and vice versa (e.g. the TARDIS interior) and that the Master is an expert in this sort of thing (he physically landed his TARDIS in the virtual reality of the Matrix in TOATL).

It's not a case of "just keep making things up", but "just keep following what has already been established."

With all the real problems of this episode, it seems a bit silly to complain about one of the fan-pleasing continuity references that Moffat actually got right.

We've tracked down the missing poll and it should now be accepting your votes. The delay is because we were under the impression you guys were adding the polls (as per previous weeks) but that doesn't seem to have been the case here.

Hardly an emotionless, controlled Cyberman but acting more like a professional soldier in full body armour.

He managed to save the daughter he loved then went on to help out his friend by saving the Doctor from the torment and guilt of having to pull the trigger himself. Whereas, he knew what needed to be done and did the deed.

And to top it all to receive the one thing he had always wanted, a salute of respect, from the Doctor who was probably saddened that he had not managed to say goodbye before the Brig died,

Thank you DS Forum Support for the Poll!

I voted Excellent.

Where's the poll response for 'just shite'

It's like the writers got together and created an arc story and the forgot to write most of it in the scripts and left it in their heads. Or got carried away with a story line and found the round pegs didn't fit the square holes and jammed them in any which way.

Why was Clara so agitated when speaking to Danny in the first scene of the previous episode, why did she only want to speak to him on the phone and get so determined about saying I love you and he'd be the last person she'd say that too... (Aside from the fact when she has kids, no doubt she would tell them she loved them) she could have waited till he turned up - rendering the whole story line not fitting.

Missy choosing Clara - why? Why Clara? The doctor would have appeared as soon as the cyber men were released, no need for the whole Danny arc. And why did Missy need to go up and down his timeline to meet dead people? What was the point if Danny was the key to some convoluted plot.

Clara's scenes saying she was the doctor - pointless. And her wanting to switch off Danny's emotions, okay... So turn him into a full cyberman...if she really loved him, she could have out him out his misery in total.

Danny's special acrobatics early in the season, their grandchild in the future refered to his grandparents as time travelled - Danny never time travelled... The solider called blue... Just the writers showing a lack of imagination.

Whatever the Arc was, it's like each episode writer missed or changed the story line... Leaving a bizarre, convoluted mess.

Oh and missy as Mary Poppins... Wtf?

Oh and what did 3W stand for?

Not to me. I thought that the child had been blown up.




The next day, my opinions are the same, about last week's programme and about yesterday's.

I never post an opinion until after I have watched a programme.

I didn't like the thought of the Brigadier as a cyberman either.

The whole point of Missy's plan was to embarrass and humiliate the Doctor. As far as Missy was concerned, Clara was just a suitable control freak who would nag the Doctor into doing unDoctorish things, such as switching on Danny's limiter. That's also why Missy needed the whole Danny arc.

Bringing back a child that Danny regretted killing rather than coming back himself and continuing to live with the guilt.

Yeah, I liked that bit as well. I was pleased they didn't magic Danny back to
life at the end, as that would have undermined the whole storyline.

He may have done all that but he was a ****** Cyberman

Not a good end imho. Moffat should have had the whatsits to leave Kate dead rather than besmirch the memory of the Brig. I'd rather the Doctor had saluted the portrait and left it at that.

Plus by him killing Missy it is just one more example of someone else doing the Doctor's dirty work for him. The Doctor should have killed Missy and he should have done it without any prompting from Saint Clara.

Oh, I know this one!