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Doctor Who - S8E12 - Death in Heaven - 8th Nov '14 - BBC One (HD) @ 8:00pm |
| View Poll Results: What did you think of the episode? | |||
| Excellent |
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162 | 40.60% |
| Good |
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92 | 23.06% |
| Average |
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76 | 19.05% |
| Bad |
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36 | 9.02% |
| Poor |
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33 | 8.27% |
| Voters: 399. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in? | |||
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#1001 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
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If you prioritise plot intricacy over character, yes, I imagine you might come away disappointed.
Ironically, this is exactly what Moffat has been criticised for in the past. The guy just can't win. |
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#1002 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,888
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It just stretched things too far, having a substance transported by rain that can turn a human corpse into a fully-formed cyberman. Why could you not have a string of funeral parlours & mortuaries that were secretly engineering the corpses? Much more believable. It shows how the series seems increasingly to be migrating from the territory of science into that of magic & myth.
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#1003 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,733
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Quote:
It just stretched things too far, having a substance transported by rain that can turn a human corpse into a fully-formed cyberman. Why could you not have a string of funeral parlours & mortuaries that were secretly engineering the corpses? Much more believable. It shows how the series seems increasingly to be migrating from the territory of science into that of magic & myth.
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#1004 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,888
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If the Master was genuinely vaporised, I'll eat my hat. Of course he/she lived to fight another day.
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#1005 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London, England, UK
Posts: 1,682
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Stupid question, did we ever find out who Dr Skorosa was?
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#1006 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 254
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Stupid question, did we ever find out who Dr Skorosa was?
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#1007 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edgware, Middlesex
Posts: 8,277
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well the borg in startrek can seem to do it and convert people over a short time so in sci fi its not an unheard of idea but under current knowledge of physics i'd say its pretty much impossible just like time travel
The Borg convert people through the use of materials and implants they have already manufactured. They are not creating super-strong metallic exo-skeletons and complicated circuitry out of thin air (or earth and soil, in this case). Even the replicators of Star Trek are assumed to be converting energy into matter using the power of a warp engine to fuel them. The worst part, though, is not whether it is possible it is the fact that once you make something like that possible, why even bother? If you can turn corpses into cybermen you can turn anything into cybermen. You don't need the corpses at all. In fact, you don't even need an army of cybermen you just need the rain and you can conquer any race (including the Daleks) with one hand tied behind your back! If the Time Lords had that kind of technology what possible threat could even the Daleks have been? |
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#1008 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Edgware, Middlesex
Posts: 8,277
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Quote:
It just stretched things too far, having a substance transported by rain that can turn a human corpse into a fully-formed cyberman. Why could you not have a string of funeral parlours & mortuaries that were secretly engineering the corpses? Much more believable. It shows how the series seems increasingly to be migrating from the territory of science into that of magic & myth.
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#1009 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,514
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My feelings exactly. They just seem to be sacrificing credibility for spectacle, lately, and I really wish they'd stop going so over the top.
What about the Tardis towing the earth back in series 4? There are many examples of spectacle over so-called credibility throughout the RTD era. Nothing has changed. |
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#1010 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Taedet animam meam vitae
Posts: 40,368
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My feelings exactly. They just seem to be sacrificing credibility for spectacle, lately, and I really wish they'd stop going so over the top.
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#1011 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 3,703
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#1012 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 254
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Naughty step! Now!!
![]() ![]() Seriously though, I do agree with Adam - what was the point of naming the character "Dr Skarosa"? More mischievous fan-baiting? I was also curious about "Xylo Jones" - as far as I could tell, the only other Cyber-convert whose name plaque we saw on-screen. |
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#1013 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 13,888
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Stupid question, did we ever find out who Dr Skorosa was?
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what was the point of naming the character "Dr Skarosa"? More mischievous fan-baiting?
I was also curious about "Xylo Jones" - as far as I could tell, the only other Cyber-convert whose name plaque we saw on-screen. |
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#1014 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 3,703
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With pleasure
![]() Seriously though, I do agree with Adam - what was the point of naming the character "Dr Skarosa"? More mischievous fan-baiting? I was also curious about "Xylo Jones" - as far as I could tell, the only other Cyber-convert whose name plaque we saw on-screen. Moffat certainly knows how to generate debate and discussion, diatribes, dissension and other words with a D... |
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#1015 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,132
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So Clara's speach […] where she said she trusted the Doctor, best friend, etc etc, she was lying?
As for Clara's speech to Danny, I thought that was an attempt to tell if he was the real Danny, why else would she speak so positively about the Doctor at that moment? |
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#1016 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,049
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If the Master was genuinely vaporised, I'll eat my hat. Of course he/she lived to fight another day.
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#1017 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London
Posts: 14,737
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It could be argued that Clara has been given reason to not totally have faith in the Doctor. She's had a much more independent/ abandoned by the Doctor story arc this season. He's failed to save the day on a number of occasions and she's had to do it herself. She also knows him far deeper than any of his other companions - except maybe Susan and Romana. If there is arrogance and a certain toughness it's earned.
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#1018 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,069
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I think you're probably right. A name like that can only cause fans to go into theorising overdrive, and Moffat knows it. And, of course, it worked. And, we're still talking about it.
Moffat certainly knows how to generate debate and discussion, diatribes, dissension and other words with a D... |
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#1019 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,601
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The Borg convert people through the use of materials and implants they have already manufactured. They are not creating super-strong metallic exo-skeletons and complicated circuitry out of thin air (or earth and soil, in this case). |
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#1020 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Posts: 1,054
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That was deliciously dark stuff. Michelle Gomez was brilliant, totally twisted and manipulative. Terrific performance by Capaldi. The end scene between The Doctor and Clara was poignant.
I'm kind of going to ignore The Brig as a Cyberman thing, because I really didn't like it. Moffatt had written a nice, sweet little line a couple of years ago allowing the Brigadier to fade away and for his passing to be felt keenly by The Doctor. And then Moff has his body bastardised by the Cybermen & Missy and his consciousness reactivated and he thinks that's a fitting tribute? ![]() Remind him never to ask him to read the eulogy at my funeral if I pop off in the next few years. I've defended you many times over the years ignored some of the more nonsensical things you've done, but after this? F**k off Moff. |
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#1021 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kent, Uk
Posts: 16,161
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So no-one would have asked ...
"If all the corpses were being turned into Cybermen, what about The Brigadier?" At least Kate Stewart knew her father hadn't become a mindless Cyberman but had saved her and fought on until the end. What was the fate of all the other dead human companions of the Doctor? |
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#1022 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Harrow, Middlesex
Posts: 2,445
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Well words are one thing; attitude (and actions) are another. I'd rather have a friend who treated me with respect and never said nice things to me, than a friend who said nice things to me and treated me with disrespect.
As for Clara's speech to Danny, I thought that was an attempt to tell if he was the real Danny, why else would she speak so positively about the Doctor at that moment? When CyberDanny then meets Clara in the graveyard, remember Clara still doesn't know who this Cyberman is, she basically makes a statement about how important the Doctor is to her, more important than anyone else. Basically she is saying this to protect her ass, and make sure the Cyberman doesn't kill her. She is hoping that if the cyberman realises she is important to the Doctor, so she may be kept alive and used as bait. Unfortunately it is Danny and he takes it the wrong way. He is already struggling to come to terms with the fact he is dead, trapped in a metal body, but now also the girl he loves says the only person important to her in the world is the Doctor - basically can someone just finish the job and pull out my emotions please - thats what Danny was thinking. |
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#1023 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Deep Space Nine
Posts: 1,855
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So no-one would have asked ...
"If all the corpses were being turned into Cybermen, what about The Brigadier?" At least Kate Stewart knew her father hadn't become a mindless Cyberman but had saved her and fought on until the end. What was the fate of all the other dead human companions of the Doctor?
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#1024 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,355
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Quote:
If you prioritise plot intricacy over character, yes, I imagine you might come away disappointed.
Ironically, this is exactly what Moffat has been criticised for in the past. The guy just can't win. |
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#1025 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kent, Uk
Posts: 16,161
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Cyber Adric! Now that would be a story.
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