......Are we safe to Assume that was Missy?
So. The hand with the nailpolish on at the Master's Funeral Pyre....
No, pretty sure we are safe to assume that was Lucy saxon's prison wardress that ordained his resurrection in End of Time Part 1.
It was Lucy.
I have no idea where this Missy has come from, I wonder if Moffat has even decided that yet?
I have no idea where this Missy has come from, I wonder if Moffat has even decided that yet?
Originally Posted by alienpanda:
“......Are we safe to Assume that was Missy?”
“......Are we safe to Assume that was Missy?”
No, I think that it was his wife Lucy's.
The Master was around again after that and saved the Doctor's life.
Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn:
“It was the governess. Lucy was shocked to see she had it.”
“It was the governess. Lucy was shocked to see she had it.”
Exactly.
It wasclearly explained in End of time part 1 in the resurrection scene. Lucy was in Prison for 'killing' Harold Saxon. The Governor of the Prison was part of some kind of 'Master' religious sect. She took the ring fromn the funeral pyre, she used Lucy to revive him. Lucy was horrified at it all and died in the process.
I don't want to be harsh but don't people watch what is transmitted?
ETA - that was harsh. And easy to miss if you haven't seen EOT1 or only seen it once drunk on xmas day 5 years ago. That said, i've only seen it once, drunk, 5 years ago and I remember...
Originally Posted by 2shy2007:
“It was Lucy.
I have no idea where this Missy has come from, I wonder if Moffat has even decided that yet?”
“It was Lucy.
I have no idea where this Missy has come from, I wonder if Moffat has even decided that yet?”
It's an incarnation of the Master - sometime within the 11 we didn't see between delgado and Pratt, sometime between Ainley and snake in the Mcgann movie, sometime during the time War pre jacobi or sometime post Simm after escaping through the crack at Trenzaore (most likely). Loads of possibilities, might be explained, doesn't actually need to be. The master / Mistress has always defied regeneration rules.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“It's an incarnation of the Master - sometime within the 11 we didn't see between delgado and Pratt, sometime between Ainley and snake in the Mcgann movie, sometime during the time War pre jacobi or sometime post Simm after escaping through the crack at Trenzaore (most likely). Loads of possibilities, might be explained, doesn't actually need to be. The master / Mistress has always defied regeneration rules.”
“It's an incarnation of the Master - sometime within the 11 we didn't see between delgado and Pratt, sometime between Ainley and snake in the Mcgann movie, sometime during the time War pre jacobi or sometime post Simm after escaping through the crack at Trenzaore (most likely). Loads of possibilities, might be explained, doesn't actually need to be. The master / Mistress has always defied regeneration rules.”
I generally agree with this, but just a small quibble - you seem to be assuming that Delgado played the first incarnation of the Master. It ain't necessarily so.
Originally Posted by JohnnyForget:
“I generally agree with this, but just a small quibble - you seem to be assuming that Delgado played the first incarnation of the Master. It ain't necessarily so.”
“I generally agree with this, but just a small quibble - you seem to be assuming that Delgado played the first incarnation of the Master. It ain't necessarily so.”
Wasn't the whole point that he was in fact the last and wanted more regenerations
Originally Posted by JohnnyForget:
“I generally agree with this, but just a small quibble - you seem to be assuming that Delgado played the first incarnation of the Master. It ain't necessarily so.”
“I generally agree with this, but just a small quibble - you seem to be assuming that Delgado played the first incarnation of the Master. It ain't necessarily so.”
Actually i'm not - i've always assumed he was at least the second given Hartnell having to regenerate due to the body 'growing thin' and them being the same age plus probably more given what the time lord says about him using regeneration as disgusies - at least in tje boon of Terror of the Autons. I did think about saying one of the 11 incarnations we don'( see other than delgado and Pratt rather than between delgado and Pratt but then didn't bother to make the distinction. I'll know better next time!!!!
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“Wasn't the whole point that he was in fact the last and wanted more regenerations”
“Wasn't the whole point that he was in fact the last and wanted more regenerations”
Pratt / Beevers the 13th master as appeared in Deadly Assasin and Keeper of traken was. But the only Master we saw prior to that was Delgado so 11 incarnations unaccounted for on screen.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“Exactly.
It wasclearly explained in End of time part 1 in the resurrection scene. Lucy was in Prison for 'killing' Harold Saxon. The Governor of the Prison was part of some kind of 'Master' religious sect. She took the ring fromn the funeral pyre, she used Lucy to revive him. Lucy was horrified at it all and died in the process.
I don't want to be harsh but don't people watch what is transmitted?
ETA - that was harsh.”
“Exactly.
It wasclearly explained in End of time part 1 in the resurrection scene. Lucy was in Prison for 'killing' Harold Saxon. The Governor of the Prison was part of some kind of 'Master' religious sect. She took the ring fromn the funeral pyre, she used Lucy to revive him. Lucy was horrified at it all and died in the process.
I don't want to be harsh but don't people watch what is transmitted?
ETA - that was harsh.”
It really wasn't.
There's a significant number of people who miss important details because they're too busy giving a live commentary on an episode on here.
Originally Posted by kitkat1971:
“Pratt / Beevers the 13th master as appeared in Deadly Assasin and Keeper of traken was. But the only Master we saw prior to that was Delgado so 11 incarnations unaccounted for on screen.”
“Pratt / Beevers the 13th master as appeared in Deadly Assasin and Keeper of traken was. But the only Master we saw prior to that was Delgado so 11 incarnations unaccounted for on screen.”
Possibly twelve - I believe the assumption is that Pratt/Beevers were playing the same, degraded, final incarnation of the Master, the same as played previously by Delgado.
So, eleven or twelve unaccounted for, who could have existed before or after Delgado.
Originally Posted by Mark.:
“It really wasn't.
There's a significant number of people who miss important details because they're too busy giving a live commentary on an episode on here.”
“It really wasn't.
There's a significant number of people who miss important details because they're too busy giving a live commentary on an episode on here.”
Well, that is a whole different issue. Perhaps goes back to paying full attention - my question of whether people are actually watching properly.
Do you know what, I might have to pull out End of Time Part 1 to rewatch (even though I hated it) to make sure it was as obvious as I remember it being!
Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn:
“Possibly twelve - I believe the assumption is that Pratt/Beevers were playing the same, degraded, final incarnation of the Master, the same as played previously by Delgado.
So, eleven or twelve unaccounted for, who could have existed before or after Delgado.”
“Possibly twelve - I believe the assumption is that Pratt/Beevers were playing the same, degraded, final incarnation of the Master, the same as played previously by Delgado.
So, eleven or twelve unaccounted for, who could have existed before or after Delgado.”
Yes I assume Pratt/Beevers are the same incarnation. He got a life force boost from the Eye of Harmony at the end of Deadly Assasin which kept him going long enough to get to traken and set up his scheme there.
Rightly or wrongly i've also always assumed that it was a different incarnation to delgado rather than just an aged, degraded version of him. I've always liked the idea that he kept regenerating to try and escape the Daleks after Frontier In Space and finally he/she just burnt out from doing it too many times, too quickly.
Then of course there is the whole issue of where the Master executed by the Daleks that becomes the snake that becomes Eric Roberts fits into it all. Might be Ainley (so Tremas' body) but there is also a theory he is one of the 11 (-'m still saying 11) incarnations of the original span and that is where the descent to the 13th began.....
Really the Master is a free for all!
Really the Master is a free for all!
Someone needs to update this, but that fact aside its still a great compilation of the Masters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsIrGUV4ew
Fro about 37 seconds onwards it lists the periods each actor played the role
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsIrGUV4ew
Fro about 37 seconds onwards it lists the periods each actor played the role
For reference, this was the last time we saw The Master.
God, that reveal was such an anti-climax for me. The scene with the female hand picking up the ring provoked so much discussion and theorizing ... only for it to turn out to be a character we'd never met, and who had no connection to the mythology of the show beyond her role in the ressurection of The Master.
Originally Posted by SillyBillyGoat:
“God, that reveal was such an anti-climax for me. The scene with the female hand picking up the ring provoked so much discussion and theorizing ... only for it to turn out to be a character we'd never met, and who had no connection to the mythology of the show beyond her role in the ressurection of The Master.”
“God, that reveal was such an anti-climax for me. The scene with the female hand picking up the ring provoked so much discussion and theorizing ... only for it to turn out to be a character we'd never met, and who had no connection to the mythology of the show beyond her role in the ressurection of The Master.”
I agree, it was a bit of a cop out, but it was very clearly shown to be the Prison Governor so I'm baffled as to why people are now suggesting that it was Missy. It wasn't. There's no ambiguity at all.
Originally Posted by adams66:
“I agree, it was a bit of a cop out, but it was very clearly shown to be the Prison Governor so I'm baffled as to why people are now suggesting that it was Missy. It wasn't. There's no ambiguity at all.”
“I agree, it was a bit of a cop out, but it was very clearly shown to be the Prison Governor so I'm baffled as to why people are now suggesting that it was Missy. It wasn't. There's no ambiguity at all.”
I think perhaps because it was disappointing, the fan theories and assumptions are more memorable than what actually happened.
