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It's unlikely Missy stole a body
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James Frederick
03-11-2014
I have read many times that the reason The Master is now in a female body is he stole it however The Doctor confirmed that Missy had two hearts so if he did he would have somehow have to find a Time Lady to do this.

Another thing is he only stole bodies as he was out of regenerations unless he/she has used hem all up since we last saw The Master --Missy is only the 3rd body in a new regeneration cycle so 9 more regenerations are possible.
philster37
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“I have read many times that the reason The Master is now in a female body is he stole it however The Doctor confirmed that Missy had two hearts so if he did he would have somehow have to find a Time Lady to do this.

Another thing is he only stole bodies as he was out of regenerations unless he/she has used hem all up since we last saw The Master --Missy is only the 3rd body in a new regeneration cycle so 9 more regenerations are possible.”

Ahhh, yes, but that's all we've seen on screen. Who knows what happened at the end of The End Of Time when the Master seemingly followed Rassilon back into the Time War on Gallifrey. He could have forfeited his remaining regenerations as punishment for using the last of his energies in that act of defiance against the High Council. He was already unstable at that point anyway, so I suspect all this will become clearer this week. That is, of course, if this incarnation follows on from the John Simm version.

The Master can, and will steal bodies. It wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest he stole one from a dying Time Lady (two hearts).
James Frederick
03-11-2014
If he stole a Time Ladies body then to please the people who don't like gender change then all her remaining regenerations will be female also as he will just get the bodies she would have had.

If he did change gender there a 50/50 chance the next Master will be male.
johnnysaucepn
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“If he stole a Time Ladies body then to please the people who don't like gender change then all her remaining regenerations will be female also as he will just get the bodies she would have had.”

Moffat has been quite comfortable with the idea that Time Lords and Ladies can change gender, perhaps gender is a choice rather than a biological essential, and most Time Lords choose to have male bodies because that's what they (and us) are used to.

I think the reason the body-theft idea is compelling is that the last time we saw the Master he was trapped in a body that couldn't regenerate - and I don't imagine Rassilon and co. would just patch him up in a fresh body and let him escape the Time Lock again. Perhaps he had already installed the Nethersphere during his Saxon tenure and uploaded his mind long ago.

There is, of course, a Time Lady that could conceivably have been outside the universe when the rest of the Time Lords were eradicated from it... Perhaps the next episode will have an ever bigger reveal - that someone wants their body back...

There's other possibilities, of course - that the extra heartbeat is a fake, or that Missy is just a robot shell.
jpl
03-11-2014
The Doctor has said previously he could always recognise a time lord no matter if they've changed. With Missi he didn't even recognise she was a timelord let alone her identity. So to me there is something else at play in hiding the Master plus when she killed Dr Chang there appeared to be a bracelet on her wrist that seemed out of place, possibly this was causing a distortion.

Whatever I think there is more to this than the Master simply changing gender as there is many questions.

How did he escape Galifrey? How did he get a body that could regenerate after the condition he was in at the end of time? How did he manage to hide from the Doctor. previously the watch hid him? Was the change in gender a choice or a consequence of what happened?

So a lot to be explained/glossed over/ignored in the next episode but i'm looking forward to it.
johnnysaucepn
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by jpl:
“The Doctor has said previously he could always recognise a time lord no matter if they've changed. With Missi he didn't even recognise she was a timelord let alone her identity. So to me there is something else at play in hiding the Master plus when she killed Dr Chang there appeared to be a bracelet on her wrist that seemed out of place, possibly this was causing a distortion.”

Perhaps the bracelet is creating the suppression field, who knows?

Quote:
“How did he escape Galifrey? How did he get a body that could regenerate after the condition he was in at the end of time? How did he manage to hide from the Doctor. previously the watch hid him? Was the change in gender a choice or a consequence of what happened?”

Going to be pedantic here - the watch contained the Master's Time Lord identity. It was the fact that he had changed his body to be human that concealed his 'signature'. When he reverted to his Time Lord body, it was his creation/adaptation of the satellite network that concealed him from the Doctor. So, something that took a huge effort before is apparently trivial now.
James Frederick
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn:
“Perhaps the bracelet is creating the suppression field, who knows?


Going to be pedantic here - the watch contained the Master's Time Lord identity. It was the fact that he had changed his body to be human that concealed his 'signature'. When he reverted to his Time Lord body, it was his creation/adaptation of the satellite network that concealed him from the Doctor. So, something that took a huge effort before is apparently trivial now.”

There could have been something in "St Paul's" that suppressed her she could have been working on it years.

Plus the fact as said The Doctor never was good at stuff like that
jpl
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn:
“Going to be pedantic here - the watch contained the Master's Time Lord identity. It was the fact that he had changed his body to be human that concealed his 'signature'. When he reverted to his Time Lord body, it was his creation/adaptation of the satellite network that concealed him from the Doctor. So, something that took a huge effort before is apparently trivial now.”

That's what I meant, It seemed to take a lot of effort to hide from the doctor so I think there must be more at play
Shawn_Lunn
03-11-2014
I really hope we see a Simm/Gomez regeneration scene.
johnnysaucepn
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by Shawn_Lunn:
“I really hope we see a Simm/Gomez regeneration scene.”

Actually, I hope Missy is a, well, miss-direction, and Seb is really the Master all along. Seems like the sort of disguise he'd do!
Corwin
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by jpl:
“The Doctor has said previously he could always recognise a time lord no matter if they've changed.”

He didn't recognise Drax in The Armageddon Factor though Drax knew who the Doctor was straight away.


Nor did the First Doctor have any idea who the Master was in The Five Doctors (though that can be explained by the Master being in a non Time Lord body, same for all the times the 5th Doctor was fooled by the Masters disguises).
JCR
03-11-2014
I'd laugh if there's no explanation for it. She should shout "I'm the Master- I always come back" and leave it at that.
James Frederick
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by JCR:
“I'd laugh if there's no explanation for it. She should shout "I'm the Master- I always come back" and leave it at that. ”

Well there wouldn't need to be a explanation we know Time Lords and Ladies and change gender so that's what will have happened and I hope it is I really don't want them to back track after finally doing it.
Jethryk
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“Well there wouldn't need to be a explanation we know Time Lords and Ladies and change gender so that's what will have happened and I hope it is I really don't want them to back track after finally doing it.”

When have we seen this?
Jethryk
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn:
“Moffat has been quite comfortable with the idea that Time Lords and Ladies can change gender, perhaps gender is a choice rather than a biological essential, and most Time Lords choose to have male bodies because that's what they (and us) are used to.

I think the reason the body-theft idea is compelling is that the last time we saw the Master he was trapped in a body that couldn't regenerate - and I don't imagine Rassilon and co. would just patch him up in a fresh body and let him escape the Time Lock again. Perhaps he had already installed the Nethersphere during his Saxon tenure and uploaded his mind long ago.

There is, of course, a Time Lady that could conceivably have been outside the universe when the rest of the Time Lords were eradicated from it... Perhaps the next episode will have an ever bigger reveal - that someone wants their body back...

There's other possibilities, of course - that the extra heartbeat is a fake, or that Missy is just a robot shell.”

That's quite plausible. Romana seemed to have a choice and the Time Lords gave The 2nd Doctor a choice. Seems reasonable that Time Lords/Ladies would normally stick to the gender they were born into but they could change if they wanted to.

(Better than a random act anyway)
Jethryk
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“I have read many times that the reason The Master is now in a female body is he stole it however The Doctor confirmed that Missy had two hearts so if he did he would have somehow have to find a Time Lady to do this.

Another thing is he only stole bodies as he was out of regenerations unless he/she has used hem all up since we last saw The Master --Missy is only the 3rd body in a new regeneration cycle so 9 more regenerations are possible.”

The Doctor's half human but he has two hearts.
James Frederick
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by Jethryk:
“When have we seen this?”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PDyuGoKypk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...jrS-uhuo#t=196
Jethryk
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PDyuGoKypk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...jrS-uhuo#t=196”

Again when have we seen this?


Second one even implies that it is not normal to change gender, but an added extra the Sisterhood is offering, but even so we still did not see it.
James Frederick
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by Jethryk:
“Again when have we seen this?


Second one even implies that it is not normal to change gender, but an added extra the Sisterhood is offering, but we did not see it.”

I never said we saw it I said we know it can happen

The Corsair is now cannon he/she changed genders without any help

I didn't see it that way they gave many examples old -young ect it was just one of the many choices he had

We know Time Lords and Ladies can even take on none human regenerations so a gender chnage is not to much of a stretch.
Saruya
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn:
“Actually, I hope Missy is a, well, miss-direction, and Seb is really the Master all along. Seems like the sort of disguise he'd do!”

Isn't Seb purely a digital assistant?
Jethryk
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“I never said we saw it I said we know it can happen

The Corsair is now cannon he/she changed genders without any help

I didn't see it that way they gave many examples old -young ect it was just one of the many choices he had

We know Time Lords and Ladies can even take on none human regenerations so a gender chnage is not to much of a stretch.”

The Doctor lies is also canon.

The Doctor is half human is also canon.
James Frederick
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by Jethryk:
“The Doctor lies is also canon.

The Doctor is half human is also canon.”

He wouldn't lie at that moment had no need to besides

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Corsair

The Fourth Doctor also mentioned it maybe not on screen but you can't say every time was a lie or doesn't count.

As for his half human I was always ok with that
Jethryk
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by James Frederick:
“He wouldn't lie at that moment had no need to besides

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Corsair

The Fourth Doctor also mentioned it maybe not on screen but you can't say every time was a lie or doesn't count.

As for his half human I was always ok with that”

Aah that's definetly not canon.

Hey if they come up with a good explaination I'll be fine with it but at the moment we
have 26 time lord incarnations seen on screen (without a gender change versus one off hand comment (which could be a lie).
James Frederick
03-11-2014
Originally Posted by Jethryk:
“Aah that's definetly not canon.

Hey if they come up with a good explaination I'll be fine with it but at the moment we
have 26 time lord incarnations seen on screen (without a gender change versus one off hand comment (which could be a lie).”

And what if they explanation is like I said Time Lords and Ladies can just do that

So far we have not seen a Time Lord or Lady change their skin colour doesn't mean they have to explain it if the next Doctor is black Asian Chinese or whatever
Mulett
03-11-2014
Do we know for sure that when the Master has stolen bodies in the past (Tremas or Bruce the ambulance driver) the resulting meld is a one-hearted human?

I had the impression Anthony Ainley's Master no longer had the ability to regenerate, but did he have just the one heart too?
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