Dancing is like learning to ride a bicycle, once you know how to do it you never forget it, and even when you have been trained for years in different styles other than ballroom you have a huge advantage once you get back to it over the average none dancer. Anybody trying to deny this advantage is deluding themselves.
Mark Wright - How is he a 'novice' when he attended Sylvia Young stage school?
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Originally Posted by dippydancing:
“And -serious question, not being facetious- do viewers get equally cross about contestants having performance backgrounds on the likes of X Factor or Britain's Got Talent? I don't watch them so I don't know.”
“And -serious question, not being facetious- do viewers get equally cross about contestants having performance backgrounds on the likes of X Factor or Britain's Got Talent? I don't watch them so I don't know.”
As I've already stated - unlike some, I don't have an issue at all with contestants on Strictly (I don't watch the others either) having previous experience, a performance background or earlier training per se. What I do find disingenuous and therefore slightly dishonest is someone who has had that experience / background / training being held up as a complete novice who has never danced a step for the sake of a "journey" narrative. It's not the prior experience or advantage that it may or may not imbue that's the problem, it's the show's insistence on presenting Mark in terms of "wow, Mark is on a such a journey! Unlike some of the other contestants, he is a complete novice! Look at his remarkable improvement from never-having-danced-at-all to competent jiver!"
I don't get the Mark Love, yes he has a lovely smile but he smiles the whole dance he is like some wind up doll. His jive was dancy but didn't have any wow factor and I felt it lacked something
People saying he might do an Abbey?? Please god no his EGO would explode across the floor!
People saying he might do an Abbey?? Please god no his EGO would explode across the floor!
Mark isnt Eistein, that is evident.
But he is reality tv savvy. He may not be able to create the conspiracy, but he certainly knows the advantage of being considered a novice.
But he is reality tv savvy. He may not be able to create the conspiracy, but he certainly knows the advantage of being considered a novice.
You can get away with being a ringer on Strictly. It happens every year. What you can't get away with is being much better than the other ringers in your series.
A lot of people makes absolute fools of themselves over this issue and I suggest that the best way to avoid doing so is to take a soft line on past experience.
A lot of people makes absolute fools of themselves over this issue and I suggest that the best way to avoid doing so is to take a soft line on past experience.
[quote=mad_madge_morri;75466542]Darcey's a novice too. She has very limited experience of ballroom and latin. At Stage School Mark maybe, did the basics of ballroom as did I in school, but there's no way I am a pro dancer. Can't dance a step in actual fact! Stage school dancing is nothing compared to ballroom training. It's a bit like taking someone who swims a bit on holiday and now and again in the town swimming pool and comparing them to an Olympic free style medal winner.[/QUOTE]
This is true but if you were to add a non swimmer/scared of water candidate to the mix you would expect the person who swims a bit on holiday to do better wouldn't you?
Me neither as it happens.
However I do have this to add to the pot. We are engaged most years by a University to teach AT to students in their school of acting. We get 5 weeks of 3 hour sessions with these young actors (including a break) so a max of 15 hours.
I also help teach adult evening classes for normal people who get a similar amount of time. They get 1 hour instruction of the demonstrate, explain, copy type, 1 hour assisted practice and up to an hour of practise to music in a sort of faux social dance set up.
The young actors learn at breath-taking speed. They take a little while to cotton on to the frame and walk of AT and often have never danced with a partner. But after the first session their improvement is so rapid. After 2 lessons they are ahead of where most ordinary adult learners would be in 6 months. By the end of the course most are better than I am - alas!
I have no idea where this takes the debate - nowhere possibly.
But there is plenty they don't need to be told - such as working with music, finding the beat, moving with grace, or told twice - such as stepping on the balls of the feet, keeping their necks long, closing steps etc.
This is true but if you were to add a non swimmer/scared of water candidate to the mix you would expect the person who swims a bit on holiday to do better wouldn't you?
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“I don't care, and I never have cared.”
“I don't care, and I never have cared.”
Me neither as it happens.
However I do have this to add to the pot. We are engaged most years by a University to teach AT to students in their school of acting. We get 5 weeks of 3 hour sessions with these young actors (including a break) so a max of 15 hours.
I also help teach adult evening classes for normal people who get a similar amount of time. They get 1 hour instruction of the demonstrate, explain, copy type, 1 hour assisted practice and up to an hour of practise to music in a sort of faux social dance set up.
The young actors learn at breath-taking speed. They take a little while to cotton on to the frame and walk of AT and often have never danced with a partner. But after the first session their improvement is so rapid. After 2 lessons they are ahead of where most ordinary adult learners would be in 6 months. By the end of the course most are better than I am - alas!
I have no idea where this takes the debate - nowhere possibly.
But there is plenty they don't need to be told - such as working with music, finding the beat, moving with grace, or told twice - such as stepping on the balls of the feet, keeping their necks long, closing steps etc.
I was taught ballroom dancing by Lend Goodman when I was a kid and now, 40 years later, were I to take part in SCD. I'd probably be nearly up to the standard of the dancers pretty quick because of it.
When I say dancers, I do actually mean Judy.
When I say dancers, I do actually mean Judy.
[quote=An Thropologist;75467776]
Ah youth is always a plus.
And 'actors' need to be able to move well, able to learn things quickly, and tend to be show offs an' all, so it's all good for the dancing.
They have an advantage, but there ye go.
Originally Posted by mad_madge_morri:
“Darcey's a novice too. She has very limited experience of ballroom and latin. At Stage School Mark maybe, did the basics of ballroom as did I in school, but there's no way I am a pro dancer. Can't dance a step in actual fact! Stage school dancing is nothing compared to ballroom training. It's a bit like taking someone who swims a bit on holiday and now and again in the town swimming pool and comparing them to an Olympic free style medal winner.[/QUOTE]
This is true but if you were to add a non swimmer/scared of water candidate to the mix you would expect the person who swims a bit on holiday to do better wouldn't you?
Me neither as it happens.
However I do have this to add to the pot. We are engaged most years by a University to teach AT to students in their school of acting. We get 5 weeks of 3 hour sessions with these young actors (including a break) so a max of 15 hours.
I also help teach adult evening classes for normal people who get a similar amount of time. They get 1 hour instruction of the demonstrate, explain, copy type, 1 hour assisted practice and up to an hour of practise to music in a sort of faux social dance set up.
The young actors learn at breath-taking speed. They take a little while to cotton on to the frame and walk of AT and often have never danced with a partner. But after the first session their improvement is so rapid. After 2 lessons they are ahead of where most ordinary adult learners would be in 6 months. By the end of the course most are better than I am - alas!
I have no idea where this takes the debate - nowhere possibly. But there is plenty they don't need to be told - such as working with music, finding the beat, moving with grace, or told twice - such as stepping on the balls of the feet, keeping their necks long, closing steps etc.”
“Darcey's a novice too. She has very limited experience of ballroom and latin. At Stage School Mark maybe, did the basics of ballroom as did I in school, but there's no way I am a pro dancer. Can't dance a step in actual fact! Stage school dancing is nothing compared to ballroom training. It's a bit like taking someone who swims a bit on holiday and now and again in the town swimming pool and comparing them to an Olympic free style medal winner.[/QUOTE]
This is true but if you were to add a non swimmer/scared of water candidate to the mix you would expect the person who swims a bit on holiday to do better wouldn't you?
Me neither as it happens.
However I do have this to add to the pot. We are engaged most years by a University to teach AT to students in their school of acting. We get 5 weeks of 3 hour sessions with these young actors (including a break) so a max of 15 hours.
I also help teach adult evening classes for normal people who get a similar amount of time. They get 1 hour instruction of the demonstrate, explain, copy type, 1 hour assisted practice and up to an hour of practise to music in a sort of faux social dance set up.
The young actors learn at breath-taking speed. They take a little while to cotton on to the frame and walk of AT and often have never danced with a partner. But after the first session their improvement is so rapid. After 2 lessons they are ahead of where most ordinary adult learners would be in 6 months. By the end of the course most are better than I am - alas!
I have no idea where this takes the debate - nowhere possibly.
But there is plenty they don't need to be told - such as working with music, finding the beat, moving with grace, or told twice - such as stepping on the balls of the feet, keeping their necks long, closing steps etc.”
Ah youth is always a plus.
And 'actors' need to be able to move well, able to learn things quickly, and tend to be show offs an' all, so it's all good for the dancing.
They have an advantage, but there ye go.
[quote=Rhumbatugger;75467950]
Indeed. And sadly wasted on the young! 
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“
Ah youth is always a plus.
And 'actors' need to be able to move well, able to learn things quickly, and tend to be show offs an' all, so it's all good for the dancing.
They have an advantage, but there ye go.
”
“
Ah youth is always a plus.
And 'actors' need to be able to move well, able to learn things quickly, and tend to be show offs an' all, so it's all good for the dancing.
They have an advantage, but there ye go.
”
Indeed.
And sadly wasted on the young!
Originally Posted by DiamondBetty:
“'TOWIED' behind a motorbike”
“'TOWIED' behind a motorbike
”
<groan>
Actually - if the new definition of 'novice' is 'not been formally trained in Latin or Ballroom specifically' - doesn't that also apply to some of the pro's as well?
<runs>
Originally Posted by dippydancing:
“And -serious question, not being facetious- do viewers get equally cross about contestants having performance backgrounds on the likes of X Factor or Britain's Got Talent? I don't watch them so I don't know.”
“And -serious question, not being facetious- do viewers get equally cross about contestants having performance backgrounds on the likes of X Factor or Britain's Got Talent? I don't watch them so I don't know.”
Some do, but I think it's more when TPTB try to pass off a contestant with a professional background as 'Joe Bloggs who works in KFC and dreams of being a singer/dancer/whatever'.
An example of how 'honesty is the best policy' is DVO's ex-husband, Lee Mead - he competed in the BBC show Any Dream Will Do (the search to find someone to play Joseph in the West End) and was open about his professional experience from the get-go. Whilst there were some people who complained about Lee's performing experience, many more didn't (and there was no backlash by people who felt they'd been decieved, because Lee and the ADWD bods were honest from the start). Lee won the competition and the role of Joseph.
As it's easy enough to google someone to find information about them, it's daft to try and decieve the public, as DVO found out to her cost!
Originally Posted by coppertop1:
“http://www.syts.co.uk/page/?title=Fu...e+School&pid=6
Here you go, do the maths yourself, 2 days a week for 10 years for 1/3 rd being dance adds up to me as:
Quite a lot really
”
“http://www.syts.co.uk/page/?title=Fu...e+School&pid=6
Here you go, do the maths yourself, 2 days a week for 10 years for 1/3 rd being dance adds up to me as:
Quite a lot really
”
Except that 2 days a week covered
training in the performing arts (drama, dance and singing) whilst developing their individual performance skills.
And other alumni:
Emma Bunton
Kara Tointon
Letitia Dean
Louisa Lytton
Matt DiAngelo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_...Theatre_School
As an aside, there are also some surprising names there too:
Adam Woodyatt (a dancer????
)Dean Gaffney (an actor???? Must have spent all of his time at the dancing classes
)Jamie Borthwick
Keeley Hawes
Natalie & Nicole Appleton
Perry Fenwick (wouldn't have seen him as having any sort of dance experience)
Danniella Westbrook
Samantha Janus (Womack)
Tamzin Outhwaite
Originally Posted by attackmusic:
“Exactly. All the others have been honest about it, but Mark doesn't correct anyone who says he is a novice. You have to remember, this guy comes from reality tv. He knows how to play the game. He was awful on TOWIE, cheating on his girlfriend, calling her fat, being awful to supposed best friends. This reinvention as sensitive, humble Mark doesn't wash with me but people seem to be fooled.”
“Exactly. All the others have been honest about it, but Mark doesn't correct anyone who says he is a novice. You have to remember, this guy comes from reality tv. He knows how to play the game. He was awful on TOWIE, cheating on his girlfriend, calling her fat, being awful to supposed best friends. This reinvention as sensitive, humble Mark doesn't wash with me but people seem to be fooled.”
I'm not fooled either. He has danced before and should admit to it. Anyway it is obvious he has been trying to hide the fact, being awful for a few weeks and then suddenly 2nd. Very suspicious.
Originally Posted by yellowlabbie:
“Anyway it is obvious he has been trying to hide the fact, being awful for a few weeks and then suddenly 2nd. Very suspicious.”
“Anyway it is obvious he has been trying to hide the fact, being awful for a few weeks and then suddenly 2nd. Very suspicious.”
Obvious to people who are automatically suspicious, but where's the real proof? There is none.
Because people don't find "their dance" do they? Or don't suddenly click with the dancing lark (never happened before on Strictly of course).
Originally Posted by yellowlabbie:
“I'm not fooled either. He has danced before and should admit to it. Anyway it is obvious he has been trying to hide the fact, being awful for a few weeks and then suddenly 2nd. Very suspicious.”
“I'm not fooled either. He has danced before and should admit to it. Anyway it is obvious he has been trying to hide the fact, being awful for a few weeks and then suddenly 2nd. Very suspicious.”
I don't think it's Mark alone. His background is in 'scripted reality' TV and I'm sure the producers and he sat down to map out how his 'narrative' would work. He's their ideal contestant: he'll be compliant because he knows how reality TV works; he's already developed his role via TOWIE and IAC; he can pull in Nanny Pat (and her sausage plait) as and when, and it's about time the 'journey' contestant was pulled out again 'cause the viewers will have forgotten all about it since the last time.
Originally Posted by *Topaz*:
“At the end of the day - if he spent so much of his youth training in the performing arts - 10 years - then he's hardly a dance 'novice' though, I don't care whether he didn't do Latin or Ballroom - the training would come in handy for something like strictly -the producers are practically bigging him up as someone who's never danced before in their life who's having miraculous transformation into a dancer on strictly - which is rubbish!”
“At the end of the day - if he spent so much of his youth training in the performing arts - 10 years - then he's hardly a dance 'novice' though, I don't care whether he didn't do Latin or Ballroom - the training would come in handy for something like strictly -the producers are practically bigging him up as someone who's never danced before in their life who's having miraculous transformation into a dancer on strictly - which is rubbish!”
I agree with you and do wish someone would point it out on ITT or somewhere.
I am sick to death of Mark Wright - he is a conceited, little boy who has had a charmed life. I couldn't believe the latest Interflora ad - there he is!
The only people on Strictly who have had NO dance or movement training (for dance) are Alison, Judy and Steve - and Simon - I think. They are the ones having the journey.
Originally Posted by Muggsy:
“I don't think it's Mark alone. His background is in 'scripted reality' TV and I'm sure the producers and he sat down to map out how his 'narrative' would work. He's their ideal contestant: he'll be compliant because he knows how reality TV works; he's already developed his role via TOWIE and IAC; he can pull in Nanny Pat (and her sausage plait) as and when, and it's about time the 'journey' contestant was pulled out again 'cause the viewers will have forgotten all about it since the last time.”
“I don't think it's Mark alone. His background is in 'scripted reality' TV and I'm sure the producers and he sat down to map out how his 'narrative' would work. He's their ideal contestant: he'll be compliant because he knows how reality TV works; he's already developed his role via TOWIE and IAC; he can pull in Nanny Pat (and her sausage plait) as and when, and it's about time the 'journey' contestant was pulled out again 'cause the viewers will have forgotten all about it since the last time.”
I am sure you are right. I don't care if they have danced before but to pretend that you haven't and with his desperation to win, all that ridiculous crying etc, it makes me very queazy.
Can I ask where the evidence is that he went to Sylvia Young?
If he was signed to Tottenham as a youth player he must have been fairly good and with several days of training plus matches each week, then I can't imagine how he had enough time.
If he was signed to Tottenham as a youth player he must have been fairly good and with several days of training plus matches each week, then I can't imagine how he had enough time.
Originally Posted by yellowlabbie:
“I am sure you are right. I don't care if they have danced before but to pretend that you haven't and with his desperation to win, all that ridiculous crying etc, it makes me very queazy.”
“I am sure you are right. I don't care if they have danced before but to pretend that you haven't and with his desperation to win, all that ridiculous crying etc, it makes me very queazy.”
Agreed. I think he is being pushed as the journey contestant but I would rather anyone else won to be honest. Perhaps he has really changed from his TOWIE days but I'm not convinced.
Originally Posted by spider9:
“Can I ask where the evidence is that he went to Sylvia Young?
If he was signed to Tottenham as a youth player he must have been fairly good and with several days of training plus matches each week, then I can't imagine how he had enough time.”
“Can I ask where the evidence is that he went to Sylvia Young?
If he was signed to Tottenham as a youth player he must have been fairly good and with several days of training plus matches each week, then I can't imagine how he had enough time.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrit...r-andre-281738
http://www.reveal.co.uk/showbiz-cele...-together.html
http://metro.co.uk/2012/02/02/towies...r-film-305696/
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s143/...oUAssQ839cgc87
Originally Posted by nyannie:
“I agree with you and do wish someone would point it out on ITT or somewhere.
I am sick to death of Mark Wright - he is a conceited, little boy who has had a charmed life. I couldn't believe the latest Interflora ad - there he is!
The only people on Strictly who have had NO dance or movement training (for dance) are Alison, Judy and Steve - and Simon - I think. They are the ones having the journey.”
“I agree with you and do wish someone would point it out on ITT or somewhere.
I am sick to death of Mark Wright - he is a conceited, little boy who has had a charmed life. I couldn't believe the latest Interflora ad - there he is!
The only people on Strictly who have had NO dance or movement training (for dance) are Alison, Judy and Steve - and Simon - I think. They are the ones having the journey.”
Other than his attendance of Anna Scher, which as far as I can see is a drama school not a stage school, I have yet to see anyone provide any evidence that Jake has had any dance training despite asking several times.
Don't get me wrong, I can't bear Mark and it pains me to stick up for him, but going to Sylvia Young's kind of could mean anything. Could mean he was there full time five days a week, in which case he's bound to have done a fair whack of dance and he's lying through his teeth pretending to be an absolute beginner. But it could also mean he just went to Saturday classes and those classes might have only have been acting, in which case, fair enough - probably helped him learn how to do all that fake crying though!
But that said to me there's a huge difference between "never danced before" and "never done this kind of dancing before" and I don't personally feel he's being entirely honest, but then I don't like him so i like to believe the worst!
Anna Scher meanwhile, totally different kind of place - that's after school type acting classes. Highly respected, but purely acting.
But that said to me there's a huge difference between "never danced before" and "never done this kind of dancing before" and I don't personally feel he's being entirely honest, but then I don't like him so i like to believe the worst!
Anna Scher meanwhile, totally different kind of place - that's after school type acting classes. Highly respected, but purely acting.
Originally Posted by dander:
“I can't bear Mark ...............I don't like him so i like to believe the worst.....”
“I can't bear Mark ...............I don't like him so i like to believe the worst.....”
Does he get your dander up?
Originally Posted by dander:
“But it could also mean he just went to Saturday classes and those classes might have only have been acting, in which case, fair enough - probably helped him learn how to do all that fake crying though!”
“But it could also mean he just went to Saturday classes and those classes might have only have been acting, in which case, fair enough - probably helped him learn how to do all that fake crying though!”
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