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Three phases out "The One Plan" and Unlimited tethering


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Old 10-11-2014, 17:55
moox
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You're right they want more money from their existing customers as they want more profit but good luck to them with that many customers would not be prepared to pay more for less.
That may well be true. The big sticking point for them seems to be the unlimited tethering - which is why new plans don't have it, regardless of price, and why they are forcing people off of it. Being able to make a profit / more of a profit is a plus too.

Also many Three customers can't even get 4G! so not only is good plan scrapped but also some of those can't get 4G while losing The One Plan. Good bye to Three I would say.
Well, no, it's a brand new technology for the UK. But they need money to build that network, and loads of people on cheap plans who aren't earning them much money isn't going to give them the capital needed to do that. Chicken and egg.


Well they should have never advertised as 1000gb unlimited should they? They can't question how that data is used the way they sold & advertised The One Plan.

They want to have their cake and eat it too!
I don't think they ever said 1000gb - they said all you can eat. But again, that doesn't imply permanent usage as a home connection (and IIRC the terms and conditions give them an out if you're a disproportionate load on the network - which the heavy tetherers / torrenters certainly are).


You have no idea what you are talking about. That’s sort of scare mongering wont scare me at all.

I work in financial services my friend and Direct Debit Indemnity Claim is in force just to stop companies like 3 or any other company who try to take more payment or amount not agreed in the first place.

So no one would be open to debt collectors or trashed credit if 3 or any other company break their part of Direct Debit contract. I have only mentioned one reason but there are 8 reasons why legally the customer or their bank can claim any DD payment under Direct Debit Indemnity Claim.

I challenge 3 to charge my account more or move me to other plan without my consent and to see if they get their payment. The Bank has to refund any DD payment as soon as it is requested by the account holder
And all 3 have to do is send you a letter saying "on this date we're doing this and charging this, if you don't cancel or request a downgrade we assume you agree" and that'll be that. This will undoubtedly happen when their terms and conditions/the law deem necessary - the text messages we're going to get are presumably a less formal warning to request a discussion. It's much cheaper to send a text now, get most of the customer base, and then only send letters to the stubborn or unaware.

You can cancel or recall the direct debit all you want, but if 3 are meeting their contractual obligations then refusing payment is going to cause you more trouble than it's worth.

And if you want to ignore these texts, go for it - but don't be surprised if you don't get as good a retention deal as someone more proactive may have got. And it's your choice - either work with 3 now and get a decent outcome, or be belligerent and get a PAC code, choice of non-discounted plans and debt collectors

In regards the One Plan you are right it may be going away so is three’s profit. I can’t see how One Plan Customer would be happy to pay more for less. They may remove this plan but that will cost them.
Again, if they're losing money or not making much profit, they won't be so worried about the loss. They want profits. Why would they accept a loss for any longer than they need to?
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Old 10-11-2014, 17:57
toofast
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Thanks very much chamsters that was exactly what I was looking for in terms of info.

So a recap of my story:
Called 3 today as I'm on holiday and plenty of time to shop around if I'm not happy with what I hear. On the £15 sim only one plan which ran out 12/10/14 said friends had been contacted and they had to move plans or leave. I asked how that would affect me as I'm out of contract.
She said the plan was no longer being offered to new customers but I could continue on the plan and would not be asked to leave or anything.

Just been in shop at White Rose and they said £15 one plan was a great old plan..... they can't offer me any special deals to change and basically just hang on to plan as long as possible.

Went home and read 'chamsters' comments and rang the 0800 number and spoke to a very nice man
Said what I had heard about the text and one plan being phased out and I was very concerned.
He said I would have eventually got a text as they were contacting people in phases and everyone out of contract would eventually get a text.
He first looked at my plan and saw I had £10 discount then without any haggling offered me unlimited minutes text & data + the 08 numbers + 4gb tethering etc for the same £15 I'm currently paying and on a rolling basis.
I'm well pleased...I hope that helps others.

Just got a text whilst typing this to say
'Your new plan and allowances will start on your next bill date. To check when this is, go to your My3 account and click on Check Allowances'.
It now says
Sim All-you-can-eat Data, All-you-can-eat Minutes - 12 Months
Texts All-you-can-eat
Minutes All-you-can-eat
Data All-you-can-eat

Don't know whether that means 12 month contract?

Either way I'm very happy as I never wanted to leave 3, love my unlimited data, never much tether & kept my payment the same...well done 3....relief....sorted
Why on earth are you so keen to change your plan before Three have contacted you regarding the changes? That's weird.
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Old 10-11-2014, 17:58
moox
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Why on earth are you so keen to change your plan before Three have contacted. That's weird.
It's going to happen sooner or later - and the offer that poster has got is probably about the best that's going to happen, so if you can get it now, why not?

If you're not a heavy tetherer then an extra month of unlimited tethering is not really a big deal.
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:03
Old Endeavour
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Question: How do they know it's 'tethered' data that you are using? I mean if you tether the phone to a PC via Bluetooth or USB cable, it's still using the phones network to get the data just like the phone would itself. Is there extra info sent in the data package to tell that it isn't the phone, but a connected device that has requested the data?

And so why hasn't some clever whiz kid designed and App or plugin box to disguise this?
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:03
chamsters
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Quick question on tethering, If i tether my phone to a windows/apple laptop then I understand that will/could be picked up on quite rapidly.

But what if you have an android phone tethered to an android or IOS tablet or phone via bluetooth, or wifi?
hit or miss here. I managed to tether while traveling with my girlfriend's android. But moment we hooked up an iPad it shouted at us.

Not sure how it works, but my best guess so far is that same device type (phone, not tablet) might go under the radar. A tablet would be picked up, as would a PC.
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:05
wavejockglw
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Good old 3 who shot themselves in the foot!

Surely heads must roll, whoever decided to discontinue with One Plan must get the sack!
That is an interesting question but a more appropriate one might be to ask why they launched a tariff that included unlimited tethering when they knew that was unsustainable in the medium to long term. With growing demand for data (3 should know all about market trends as they are one of the most experienced mobile telcos worldwide) on smartphones and a hard core using 3 as a fixed line alternative this triumph of marketing of product had to come to a sticky end. Some said they would never change the terms they offered when they replaced the One Plan for new customers but as average consumption grew there was little choice but to act to manage the capacity available to make handset use reliable for those paying around the same as on other networks for high spec/high cost mobiles, which is where the margin on 24 month contracts is now.

3 may have made a costly error with the One Plan and time will tell if the gains made will result in retention when the plan is phased out. Customers can still use data on handsets unlimited and perhaps that will be sufficient for a significant proportion who joined 3 with the One Plan. Perhaps now that the tethering issues is being addressed 3 can place more emphasis on rolling-out 4G as they run the risk of being left behind the others at the rate they are presently deploying it at.
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:07
moox
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Question: How do they know it's 'tethered' data that you are using? I mean if you tether the phone to a PC via Bluetooth or USE cable, it's still using the phones network to get the data just like the phone would itself. Is there extra info sent in the data package to tell that it isn't the phone, but a connected device that has requested the data?
When you load a web page, the web browser sends a "user agent" to the server, which tells it the browser type/name, the operating system it is being run on, screen resolution and so on. So if they're seeing requests coming from a Windows or Mac then it's likely to be from a user who is tethering.

They could also look at the time to live in the IP packet header. This is a counter that gets decremented for each router the packet passes through, and the phone while tethering counts as a router. So 3 could spot that.

They could also look at the IMEI of the device that the SIM is inserted into, which among other things tells them what type of device is in use. Phone SIMs should not be in tablets or mobile broadband devices. They could go a step further, and note that a SIM inserted into a Samsung phone should not appear to be sending/receiving traffic aimed for an iPhone or iPad.

And there are services that clearly wouldn't be accessed on a phone - e.g. Windows Update, the desktop iTunes store and others.

It's definitely not foolproof but they just need to make it enough of a nuisance that most people would either not bother trying, or would upgrade their account to include tethering.
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:12
Old Endeavour
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When you load a web page, the web browser sends a "user agent" to the server, which tells it the browser type/name, the operating system it is being run on, screen resolution and so on. So if they're seeing requests coming from a Windows or Mac then it's likely to be from a user who is tethering.

They could also look at the time to live in the IP packet header. This is a counter that gets decremented for each router the packet passes through, and the phone while tethering counts as a router. So 3 could spot that.

They could also look at the IMEI of the device that the SIM is inserted into, which among other things tells them what type of device is in use. Phone SIMs should not be in tablets or mobile broadband devices. They could go a step further, and note that a SIM inserted into a Samsung phone should not appear to be sending/receiving traffic aimed for an iPhone or iPad.

And there are services that clearly wouldn't be accessed on a phone - e.g. Windows Update, the desktop iTunes store and others.

It's definitely not foolproof but they just need to make it enough of a nuisance that most people would either not bother trying, or would upgrade their account to include tethering.
Interesting! So why hasn't some clever person invented an app or other device that fakes all the correct info into the packets to that of the correct phone it should be coming from?
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:16
wavejockglw
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And so why hasn't some clever whiz kid designed and App or plugin box to disguise this?
Because whilst it might be a useful thing for some it would be self-defeating eventually as congestion would render the mobile network useless for anyone on it.

On networks charging for data by the GB 4G is slowing down due to increased consumption on the limited bandwidth available. Creating an app to allow users to workaround tethering would simply be resolved by limits being applied to data use in general. Networks can't sell expensive contracts when crippled with capacity issues caused by congestion. As sure as night follows day if such a development arose it would be defeated with the withdrawal of any form of unlimited data use.
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:16
moox
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Interesting! So why hasn't some clever person invented an app or other device that fakes all the correct info into the packets to that of the correct phone it should be coming from?
There are apps that do that (particularly for the US, where the networks aren't anywhere near as generous on tethering as 3 are). Whether or not they work well I don't know as I've never used them.

Another way around it is to use a VPN, which as it is encrypted makes it harder/impossible for 3 to work out what you're doing. But they could get around that by simply throttling all VPN traffic.
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:23
Richard_T
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hit or miss here. I managed to tether while traveling with my girlfriend's android. But moment we hooked up an iPad it shouted at us.

Not sure how it works, but my best guess so far is that same device type (phone, not tablet) might go under the radar. A tablet would be picked up, as would a PC.
Hypothetical question ( as I dont think it would be practical ) Phone with Three sim, tethered to another phone via Blue tooth, secondary phone providing a wifi hotspot
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:25
wavejockglw
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Another way around it is to use a VPN, which as it is encrypted makes it harder/impossible for 3 to work out what you're doing. But they could get around that by simply throttling all VPN traffic.
Love it...... even before the changes happen workarounds are appearing and that might be good news for a short time for a few but will likely lead to the reduction of benefits for the many in the future as the network will act to conserve it's bandwidth.

Greed by a few is what killed the One Plan and temporary workarounds by a few will be what kills 'Unlimited Data' for the majority of 3 customers eventually.
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:27
moox
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Love it...... even before the changes happen workarounds are appearing and that might be good news for a short time for a few but will likely lead to the reduction of benefits for the many in the future as the network will act to conserve it's bandwidth.

Greed by a few is what killed the One Plan and temporary workarounds by a few will be what kills 'Unlimited Data' for the majority of 3 customers eventually.
Appearing? VPN technology isn't new - and 3 are fully aware of it. I'm reasonably sure that 3 already throttle VPN usage, based on my own experience (which was not to circumvent any of 3's restrictions, just so you can rest easy).

But ultimately if people want to try to find workarounds then that's up to them, just as it is up to 3 to deal with that. It's a bit pious to suggest that people shouldn't be aware.

I doubt that unlimited data will disappear - while the tethering users are probably small (but have a big impact on the network), people do join 3 explicitly for unlimited data, and removing that on a wide scale really will cause massive churn. It's a much bigger selling point than tethering was, and worth dealing with the issues that 3 has (in building coverage problems, sub-par performance) in order to get it.
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:31
Alex_1
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It's going to happen sooner or later - and the offer that poster has got is probably about the best that's going to happen, so if you can get it now, why not?

If you're not a heavy tetherer then an extra month of unlimited tethering is not really a big deal.
Thanks moox just about sums it up. Maybe later on it will be more difficult to get the same deal. I'd rather know where I stand sooner than later
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:34
Old Endeavour
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Because whilst it might be a useful thing for some it would be self-defeating eventually as congestion would render the mobile network useless for anyone on it.

On networks charging for data by the GB 4G is slowing down due to increased consumption on the limited bandwidth available. Creating an app to allow users to workaround tethering would simply be resolved by limits being applied to data use in general. Networks can't sell expensive contracts when crippled with capacity issues caused by congestion. As sure as night follows day if such a development arose it would be defeated with the withdrawal of any form of unlimited data use.
Yes that is all very fair comment and sense, but you don't expect the selfish user to think of anyone but themselves, so I just wondered why someone hadn't invented such a device to counter being found out.
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Old 10-11-2014, 18:54
Daveoc64
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What makes them think customers will be happy to pay nearly double what they are paying now and still end up with less?
The simple mistake all of your posts in this thread have made is that you seem to think there is an alternative.

Which other network is offering unlimited data with unlimited tethering?

Oh wait... none of them.

I'm not aware of any network in the world with the same offering that Three had. It broke the mold by offering unlimited data AND tethering - two features that "high end" users want.

No network can offer me unlimited data on my phone and still let me tether - so I'm sticking with Three.

... and I'm also saving money, because you don't need to get Three's most expensive plan to have unlimited data and tethering anymore.
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Old 10-11-2014, 19:04
wavejockglw
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The simple mistake all of your posts in this thread have made is that you seem to think there is an alternative.

Which other network is offering unlimited data with unlimited tethering?

Oh wait... none of them.

I'm not aware of any network in the world with the same offering that Three had. It broke the mold by offering unlimited data AND tethering - two features that "high end" users want.

No network can offer me unlimited data on my phone and still let me tether - so I'm sticking with Three.

... and I'm also saving money, because you don't need to get Three's most expensive plan to have unlimited data and tethering anymore.
"Which other network is offering unlimited data with unlimited tethering?"

That speaks for itself!

I'm not aware of any network in the world with the same offering that Three had. It broke the mold by offering unlimited data AND tethering - two features that "high end" users want. (sic)

High-End users? Costly users or perhaps liabilities that others are happy not to do business with?

The finite bandwidth issue has had it's first casualty (The One Plan) and perhaps not it's last as consumption increases and capacity is needed to provide data to the 'average' smartphone user. Business is business......
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Old 10-11-2014, 19:08
Everything Goes
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Interesting! So why hasn't some clever person invented an app or other device that fakes all the correct info into the packets to that of the correct phone it should be coming from?
Such an app was invented a while ago to get around tethering detection PDANET / FoxFIi for example.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...?id=com.pdanet
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Old 10-11-2014, 19:10
moox
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The finite bandwidth issue has had it's first casualty (The One Plan) and perhaps not it's last as consumption increases and capacity is needed to provide data to the 'average' smartphone user. Business is business......
They would have to think carefully about doing that. Pretty much their only USP is unlimited data and lower prices, so removing that would remove pretty much all of their customers' reasons for staying with them. Why stick with 3 when the other networks offer in-building coverage, 2G backup and similar plans for a similar cost?

It'd be more likely that the heavy users get targeted rather than the blanket approach that we are seeing here.
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Old 10-11-2014, 19:25
heidtheba
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Phony as an add on on Firefox used to spoof phone to a different device and make it appear as a desktop , iPhone etc.

Don't know if still on the go.
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Old 10-11-2014, 19:31
JFC
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I will certainly be considering my position come renewal in March. I use about 20gb a month as I cannot have a landline here so 4GB is no good for me.

If they were to give a reasonable tethering allowance I would stay like a shot.
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Old 10-11-2014, 19:37
moox
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I will certainly be considering my position come renewal in March. I use about 20gb a month as I cannot have a landline here so 4GB is no good for me.

If they were to give a reasonable tethering allowance I would stay like a shot.
Reasonable is debatable - if 3 intend for it to be occasional use, 4GB is more than plenty.

Since you appear to be using it as a permanent connection (which it was never sold as) then you're not going to be happy with any of the offers, except for when they finally get around to overhauling their mobile broadband tariffs. But they won't be as cheap as the one plan is. All of the plans have 4GB of tethering or no tethering at all.

And you're not going to find much else on the other networks without serious money.
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Old 10-11-2014, 19:57
M_M2
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If it's classified as a phone then it's a phone.. The amount of data transfered will be still far less compared to the data transfered via tethering.



If only Three could have predicted the future or had the ability to time travel into the past.

One learns from mistakes and this is one of them.
What did they need to learn? There was no need to predict the future, the writing was on the wall when all the other networks were running away from offering unlimited data. Data appears to be the cash cow for the networks.
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Old 10-11-2014, 19:58
JFC
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Reasonable is debatable - if 3 intend for it to be occasional use, 4GB is more than plenty.

Since you appear to be using it as a permanent connection (which it was never sold as) then you're not going to be happy with any of the offers, except for when they finally get around to overhauling their mobile broadband tariffs. But they won't be as cheap as the one plan is. All of the plans have 4GB of tethering or no tethering at all.

And you're not going to find much else on the other networks without serious money.
It was sold as unlimited and that was what I signed up for and was using it for. So if there is a better deal (or combination of deals) I will be offski. otherwise I will stay put

You are probably right, there may not be a better deal but we will see in five months time.
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Old 10-11-2014, 20:28
sdduk
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They are presumably wanting to dump the One Plan because it either isn't profitable or it isn't profitable enough to do the things they want to do (e.g. 4G). If they're losing money they will have little problem saying goodbye to you - especially if you are one of those of the permanent tetherers who are proud of their high usage.



Same thing.



3 never sold it as a permanent home connection. They sold it on the basis that you didn't have to count every kilobyte or worry about the bill. All you can eat buffets tend not to like it if you're doing something outside the norm, too.



Which is why they are honouring it - they're letting people stay until their contracts are up, and then changing your plan (and since the minimum term is up, you're free to leave). At no point did they say that they will let you stay on the plan forever.



And by doing that you're opening yourself up to debt collectors and trashed credit reports. 3 aren't stupid - they'll give the minimum possible notice required to those who are too stubborn to sort something out. But instead of getting a better deal today, you'll probably get offered any of the current plans with no discount. Expect a letter or something on the 5th of December, as that's a month.

Either way, ignoring them is not going to result in you keeping your plan if they want rid of them. If you're getting a discount on what is already an unsustainably cheap plan, you're even more likely to get told to go away. The One Plan is going away whether you act petulant or not.

This is ultimately about making things more difficult for yourself - this isn't political revolution, this is a mobile phone service. Some perspective is needed.

Finally, please note that there are several threads on this topic, we don't need another.
Nice One Moox well said i agree with you

What most people like the OP forget is if they decide to leave 3 really ain't that bovvered because another two will join in there place because theres no better new deals out then them.
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