Everyone seems to refer to Peter's version as the 12th incarnation. But by and large this is incorrect seeing as we saw John Hurt's version in the Christmas special. That means that Peter is playing not the 12th but the 13th. Technically the 14th if you count the aborted regeneration.

What does everybody else think? And John Hurt's War Doctor acknowledged he was the Doctor again after the events.

The Hurt version is officially The War Doctor I see what you mean but if we went by that then Eccleston would become 10 -Tennant would become 11 and Smith 12 and if you include Tennant's 2nd regeneration then Smith would be 13.

He's called the 12th Doctor outside the show as he's the 12th (Main) Actor to have played the role.


Within the show he's 13th Incarnation of the Time Lord known as the Doctor but the 1st Incarnation of a 2nd Regeneration Cycle since the 10th Doctor (Tennant) used up 2 Regenerations while remaining the same Incarnation.

Also as the 2nd regeneration started with a regeneration (instead of being born) then there will only be 12 incarnations in the 2nd regeneration cycle.

I need a calculator......

Unless they have given him unlimited like he hinted at

If it bothers you that much, just pretend he's counting in base Eleven, and War is an extra digit between Eight and Nine.

Seven regenerations down the line, we'll have a Warteenth Doctor

14 Lives, 13 Faces, 12 Doctors, is the best way to go about this.

The War Doctor granted did acknowledge himself to be The Doctor regenerated shortly after, perhaps this is what triggered it but The Doctor still views those days as not being The Doctor.

The 10th Doctor used a regeneration to keep him the way he was, hence the 13 faces rather than 14. As he didn't change, he wasn't a 'new' Doctor and doesn't count.

Capaldi is recognised as the 12th doctor.

Sigh


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=moffat+12th+doctor

I did quite like the War Doctor but from an in universe perspective I don't see why he wouldn't be counted as an official 'numbered' Doctor. I can see why Nine and Ten would have ignored him but since Eleven and Twelve now know that he didn't really do anything it doesn't really make sense that he would still be ostracised.

It's kind of the same thing with the Doctor still being called the Last of the Time Lords this series. Well, you wouldn't be if you got off your backside and went looking for them, Doc!

Well, because he himself doesn't class himself as the Doctor. I'm referring specifically to the War Doctor himself. Yes, by the end of the episode he knew he hadn't done anything and could start referring to himself as the Doctor. But as soon as he goes back into his own time, he forgets the actions (as did 10), so he reverts back to the whole 'I am not The Doctor' way of thinking.

INCARNATION ..................................... NAME
1st .........................................................The First Doctor
2nd .......................................................The Second Doctor
3rd ........................................................The Third Doctor
4th ........................................................The Fourth Doctor
("Projection" of the 5th .................... The "Watcher")
5th ........................................................The Fifth Doctor
6th ........................................................The Sixth Doctor
7th ........................................................The Seventh Doctor
8th ........................................................The Eighth Doctor
9th ........................................................The "War Doctor"
10th ......................................................The Ninth Doctor
11th .......................................................The Tenth Doctor (i) (pre-metacrisis regeneration)
12th ......................................................The Tenth Doctor (ii) (post-metacrisis regeneration)
13th ......................................................The Eleventh Doctor
14th (or 1st of second life cycle) ...The Twelfth Doctor

(??th...................................................... The "Curator")

As I mentioned before - bib - he forgets it all when he goes back to his own timestream.

Besides, here is the Doctor's own view:

I assume the Valeyard is not regarded as an actual number, more as a potential?

For me, he is the 13th

In The Trial Of A Time Lord, The Master descibes him as an "amalgam" of the darker sides of the Doctor's nature "...somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnations...".

This means the "Dream Lord" element of the Doctor's consciousness would fit as an origin for the Valeyard, so all he needs following Amy's Choice (S5) is a body.

As the "Human Doctor" was created and said goodbye to prior to Series 5, then despite being created just moments after the Doctor entered his twelfth incarnation (the post-metacrisis version of the Tenth Doctor), I don't think as some have suggested that he has the potential to become the Valeyard.

My own personal view on this is that the Dream Lord may have "jumped ship" so to speak during the suspiciously long scan in The Rebel Flesh (S6a) and is somewhere among the gloop that remains of the Ganger Doctor waiting to hijack a body as the Master was prone to doing post-Delgado.

Of course it could be that the Dream Lord still resides within the Doctor somewhere waiting for a chance to escape.




Dig your heels in if you like but he isn't....

The Day Of The Doctor and The Time Of The Doctor clearly state that The War Doctor is the Ninth incarnation and there were two incarnations called The Tenth Doctor.

You have to look at the "incarnation" and the "name" as being completely different things.

In The Trial Of A Time Lord, The Master descibes him as an "amalgam" of the darker sides of the Doctor's nature "...somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnations...".

This means the "Dream Lord" element of the Doctor's consciousness would fit as an origin for the Valeyard, so all he needs following Amy's Choice (S5) is a body.

As the "Human Doctor" was created and said goodbye to prior to Series 5, then despite being created just moments after the Doctor entered his twelfth incarnation (the post-metacrisis version of the Tenth Doctor), I don't think as some have suggested that he has the potential to become the Valeyard.

My own personal view on this is that the Dream Lord may have "jumped ship" so to speak during the suspiciously long scan in The Rebel Flesh (S6a) and is somewhere among the gloop that remains of the Ganger Doctor waiting to hijack a body as the Master was prone to doing post-Delgado.

Of course it could be that the Dream Lord still resides within the Doctor somewhere waiting for a chance to escape.





No they don't, They refer to him as "The Twelfth Doctor" ..... It's not the same thing



Dig your heels in if you like but he isn't....

The Day Of The Doctor and The Time Of The Doctor clearly state that The War Doctor is the Ninth incarnation and there were two incarnations called The Tenth Doctor.

You have to look at the "incarnation" and the "name" as being completely different things.




So to re-iterate ...

Quite simple realy, he's the 14th incarnation but only the 12th to call himself Doctor.

14th incarnation
13th to call himself The Doctor

...because 2 incarnations called themselves "The Tenth Doctor" ...
.. He's a different "incarnation" from Journeys End onwards because he "regenerated and kept the same face"

( and only 1 incarnation DIDN'T call himself the Doctor so the number of incarnations who did can only be 1 less than the total number of incarnations )

As far as I'm concerned - he is Dr 12!!

I go by appearances on TV - he is 12!

OK - |I'll have to accept Moffats version of being 13 or 14, whatever!

But in my eyes - there have been 12 Doctors. End of matter!!

The War doctor was a slip-in-time, David Tennant's misdemeaneour was his own fault!

Matt Smith was stupid by becoming over 1000 years old.

And Steven Moffat was stupid by doing such silly "Timey" crap get-outs !!!

The other thing that convinced me that Capaldi is Doctor 13 was at the end of The Day Of The Doctor when Matt Smith's Doctor mentioned he had a dream where all the Doctors get together. We saw John Hurt's version there with all of them. So he must count as an incarnation.

Of course they both count as incarnations. And regenerations. That means nothing to the Doctor. Remember, Smith's incarnation always said he was the eleventh, despite knowing full well about War and 10.5. And it's not like it's ever mattered to him, it's just a description.

12, because the numbering is more to do with the actors who have played the role than anything in-show, as then Moffat or the next writer could make up all kind of plot gubbins for the next special and then suddenly we're on the 47th Doctor and have no idea how to explain it to casual or non-Who fans.

"He's actually the 14th Doctor because of a fake regeneration and an incarnation he didn't acknowledge" must sound nerdy, trainspotterish in the extreme to anyone who isn't a fan of the show.

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