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Favourite Dances of the Series So Far?
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henrywilliams58
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by bendymixer:
“I haven't really liked many AT's on the show and salsa and AT are never very authentic on SCD but the latin and ballroom dances are much more authentic

I wasnst keen on what I saw tonight on ITT but know its early days but not a great fan of Kristina's routines if Im honest”

For those that have not seen much AT compare this

Jason Donovan and Kristina Rihanoff - Argentine Tango

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YgAN8bRUgs

With my favourite couple Noelia Hurtado y Carlos Espinoza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2VR-eouF6g

I am pretty much trying to emulate Carlos Espinoza in style if not quite yet in end product. He is known as The Messi of Tango.
Pauline_Tynan
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by dippydancing:
“I agree with most of the dances mentioned so far (less so Frankie's tango- the music really spoils my enjoyment of a fantastic dance), but for sheer entertainment I've re-watched Alison & Aljaz's foxtrot more times than I care to count.”

Jake and Janettes Salsa is a standout- no one expected that. - I also liked their jive.
I liked some of Marks dances also

Pixie is an excellent dancer - her performances just don't move me - maybe it is her over-confidence. Frankie is much more likable
Serenity.
13-11-2014
No contest for me - Jake & Janette's salsa. For a week two performance that was absolutely incredible. His jive was great too. He's gone a bit downhill since then but hopefully we'll see some more impressive performances from him soon.
Serenity.
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“I know. I saw a bit on ITT tonight. It was a series of sacadas and ganchos all obviously faked. But the judges won't notice.”

Genuine question - why were they faked?
holly berry
13-11-2014
Jake and Janette's salsa. Still enjoy watching it.
hannah
13-11-2014
Jake & Janette Salsa
jtnorth
13-11-2014
Jake and Janette's salsa. Still the wow dance.
Steve and Ola's waltz
Sunetra and Brendan ballroom where she was in the red dress with the feathers (just to show off my deep understanding of the dances there)
Simon and Kristina's quickstep.
Frankie and Kevin's waltz

I feel mean not picking a dance by Pixie or Caroline as they are both consistently so good and I like them both, but I can't pick out one dance that is the one where they really made the show for me. But I think they will as the series goes on.
Chiltons Cane
13-11-2014
Pretty much all of Pixies dances especially that foxtrot and tango.
Jakes salsa.
Marks Samba.
TerryM22
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by Chiltons Cane:
“Pretty much all of Pixies dances especially that foxtrot and tango.
Jakes salsa.
Marks Samba.”

I do like Pixie
fatskia
13-11-2014
Jake and Janette's Salsa - brought Jake the dancer to life.

Alison and Alijaz Foxtrot - not because of the dancing but because of the ingenious choreography.

Sunetra and Brendan's American Smooth - it's her style and Brendan's choreography caught that.

Caroline and Pasha's Sadiscomba - I like watching Caroline enjoying dancing.

Steve and Ola's Paso Doble - His favourite song and his favourite dance and Ola choreographed the two conflicting things together very well to allow him to do it his way.
henrywilliams58
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by Serenity.:
“Genuine question - why were they faked?”

Just to provide a holding answer until Anthro' spots this and elaborates / corrects ...

Argentine Tango is totally led and followed. All the moves have to be instigated by a movement of the torso (not arms) of the leader. So even if there is rough choreography and the follower is aware of that choreography and has practised the dance before with the leader, she can never give the impression of being pre-aware of the lead and "going off on one" without the lead.

So if you see Kristina make an action ask yourself "What action with his torso did Simon / Jason do to generate that action of Kristina?". The answer will be "nothing" so the conclusion is "It is all fake".

I see AT as very much like dressage or driving a Porsche on an autobahn or a racehorse on the flats. They are all lead and follow. Can't have the horse or the car "going off on one" without being led / driven.

Similar with conducting an orchestra. Does the orchestra play the music from memory of a CD or follow the present conductor's possibly fuzzy and incoherent lead / interpretation? Does the football team follow the coach's strategy and tactics or do its own thing?

I posted these two youtube earlier in this thread for illustration of the difference between a 40 point (but absolute rubbish) SCD AT and a real one.

Compare

Jason Donovan and Kristina Rihanoff - Argentine Tango

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YgAN8bRUgs

With my favourite couple Noelia Hurtado y Carlos Espinoza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2VR-eouF6g

[Sorry if this interpretation seems misogynistic or offensive in any way ]
holly berry
13-11-2014
That's why I like Queer Tango because who leads / follows isn't determined by gender stereotypes and can be danced by anyone, queer or not
attackmusic
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by Pauline_Tynan:
“Jake and Janettes Salsa is a standout- no one expected that. - I also liked their jive.
I liked some of Marks dances also

Pixie is an excellent dancer - her performances just don't move me - maybe it is her over-confidence. Frankie is much more likable”

Is there anytime on here or facebook when you don't whine about how you don't like Pixie? When has she been arrogant or over confident? Never. Your projection just proves what is wrong with certain viewers when it comes to a certain type of female on this show. Bored of it.

Anyway:
Jake and Janette's Salsa
Pixie and Trent have had many standouts, but my favourite was the Samba
Frankie has had many standouts too, but her tango was my favourite.

Those are my three picks though Caroline has done some wonderful dances too
henrywilliams58
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by holly berry:
“That's why I like Queer Tango because who leads / follows isn't determined by gender stereotypes and can be danced by anyone, queer or not ”

There is a lot of it about apparently. I have not been to one and as I like to dance Milonguero style (very close with small subtle movements as opposed to open and flashy) I'm not doing that with a bloke.

I might dance with blokes at classes if there is a shortage of females but would never do it at a Milonga (social dance).

It is useful to learn to follow (as a habitual leader) to identify what lead generates a follower reaction as a means of improving the leader torso instruction.

It is also a bit like chess. Think of what the desired follower's reaction and steps you seek to generate; then think through and perform the leader movements to generate the desired follower's reactions.

But in a social dance I am not interested in following a male or indeed a female. Each to their own tastes.
lewismacf
13-11-2014
Scot mills samba runs away from forum
An Thropologist
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by Serenity.:
“Genuine question - why were they faked?”

It's quite complicated to explain to someone who doesn't dance AT but I will give it a go.

There are basic principles at play in AT (the physics if you like) One of these is that the dance works on the basis that the couple share an axis. They lean into one another so that they in effect create a balance point that is sort of in space between the two of them.

Another principle of the dance is that each step is concocted by the man taking the lady just far enough from that axis or balance point that she is forced to put her foot down to save herself from toppling over. So when dancing as a partner you feel, comfortable then less comfortable then OMG intolerable I am going to fall, I have to put my foot down! Another rule is that the lady NEVER has her weight on both feet. As soon as her free leg hits the floor she switches her weight to it.

The skill of the lead is to engineer that discomfort so that the lady puts her foot where he plans. It takes a lot of skill and experience to do this.

The step on ITT were a series of displacements called sacadas. In real life the man will take the lady off her axis point, under control, until she has to place her weight on the free foot. Because he has complete control over the timing and location he knows just when her standing foot will release and he places his foot in the space she vacated. It happens so quickly and smoothly that an optical illusion is created and it looks like they are kicking each others feet out of the way. But really there is NO KICKING!

The gancho or hook is the bit where the leg bends during displacements. This happens because - as the follower releases the weight from her standing leg, the man when moving in, to take up the footprint she is vacating, gently applies pressure to her thigh with his thigh. This forces her leg out at an angle. and you get the illusion of him kicking her leg out of the way so it flies out at an angle.

To someone who knows AT it was fairly obvious in that training VT that Simon was merely following steps. So he was placing his foot according to the directions of the routine and kicking on the beat as directed etc.

Its a subtle difference particularly as AT is all about optical illusion in the first place. But to anyone who has learned AT, even to an improvers level, it is clear that the natural physics or dynamic on which the dance depends is not being used. Instead the steps are just placed because that's what the choreography says.

Really hard to describe I am afraid.
henrywilliams58
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“ ...

The skill of the lead is to engineer that discomfort so that the lady puts her foot where he plans. It takes a lot of skill and experience to do this.

...

Another rule is that the lady NEVER has her weight on both feet. As soon as her free leg hits the floor she switches her weight to it.

Really hard to describe I am afraid.”

Pretty good explanation. Except I couldn't possibly contemplate engineering discomfort to a woman. Just the promise of comfort ....

Some nice moves (Voleos / Boleos = flights) are generated when the weight and direction of movement is switched a micro-second before her free leg hits the floor and her leg flies / flicks back in a beautiful arc.

The leader also (almost) never has his weight on both feet. i.e. I can't think of when / how he can have his weight on both feet after embracing.
An Thropologist
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by henrywilliams58:
“Pretty good explanation. Except I couldn't possibly contemplate engineering discomfort to a woman. Just the promise of comfort ....

Some nice moves (Voleos / Boleos = flights) are generated when the weight and direction of movement is switched a micro-second before her free leg hits the floor and her leg flies / flicks back in a beautiful arc.

The leader also (almost) never has his weight on both feet. i.e. I can't think of when / how he can have his weight on both feet after embracing.”

I can think of a number of steps where we teach the man to plant this weight on both feet pro temps to provide maximum stability - anywhere when he is about to take the lady's entire weight such as volcada. I also know one step when the lady has her weight on both feet. However it is the general rule and applied to the sequence we saw in the training clip so I decided not to complicate an already confusing bit of writing with exceptions.
daziechain
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by henrywilliams58:
“Just to provide a holding answer until Anthro' spots this and elaborates / corrects ...

Argentine Tango is totally led and followed. All the moves have to be instigated by a movement of the torso (not arms) of the leader. So even if there is rough choreography and the follower is aware of that choreography and has practised the dance before with the leader, she can never give the impression of being pre-aware of the lead and "going off on one" without the lead.

So if you see Kristina make an action ask yourself "What action with his torso did Simon / Jason do to generate that action of Kristina?". The answer will be "nothing" so the conclusion is "It is all fake".

I see AT as very much like dressage or driving a Porsche on an autobahn or a racehorse on the flats. They are all lead and follow. Can't have the horse or the car "going off on one" without being led / driven.

Similar with conducting an orchestra. Does the orchestra play the music from memory of a CD or follow the present conductor's possibly fuzzy and incoherent lead / interpretation? Does the football team follow the coach's strategy and tactics or do its own thing?

I posted these two youtube earlier in this thread for illustration of the difference between a 40 point (but absolute rubbish) SCD AT and a real one.

Compare

Jason Donovan and Kristina Rihanoff - Argentine Tango

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YgAN8bRUgs

With my favourite couple Noelia Hurtado y Carlos Espinoza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2VR-eouF6g

[Sorry if this interpretation seems misogynistic or offensive in any way ]”

You cannot expect a celeb to master an AT in four days .. so it's totally unfair to compare.

Having said that I didn't think much of your example .. it didn't wow me at all.

I admit though ... I know nothing about it or what to look for.
An Thropologist
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by daziechain:
“You cannot expect a celeb to master an AT in four days .. so it's totally unfair to compare.

Having said that I didn't think much of your example .. it didn't wow me at all.

I admit though ... I know nothing about it or what to look for.”

Well between you and me, I do know what to look for and it didn't blow my socks off either.

It crossed my mind last night to ask Henry why this one in particular floats his boat but decided against it. He is entitled to like what he likes.

Don't get me wrong its perfectly good AT. I wasn't expecting Henry to pick a clip brimming with flash and trash. Tricks are really not what AT is about. However I am not feeling much from this performance except clean, accurate dancing.

The sizzle for me comes in the musical interpretation and the frisson between the couple and this didn't convey either especially to me. Of course its subjective and just because it doesn't light my fire doesn't mean it isn't going to light any bodies.

But since you have raised the point I am curious Henry. What is it about this clip and this couple, of all the examples on the net, that makes it your number 1 pick?
Serenity.
13-11-2014
Thanks for your answers - I appreciate the time you put in. I have never danced AT but it is one of my favourites to watch, so your points will give me more of an idea of what to look out for. I hope Pixie & Trent and Caroline & Pasha get to do an AT because I think it will really suit them - Caroline will get the smouldering sexiness of the dance, and Pixie will nail the technical aspects (well, as much as you can in four days!)

Out of interest, did you see the AT danced by Gilles Marini and Cheryl Burke on Dancing with the Stars? With my non-expert hat on, I thought that was amazing. But that might just be because of Gilles.....😳
henrywilliams58
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“ I can think of a number of steps where we teach the man to plant this weight on both feet pro temps to provide maximum stability - anywhere when he is about to take the lady's entire weight such as volcada. I also know one step when the lady has her weight on both feet. However it is the general rule and applied to the sequence we saw in the training clip so I decided not to complicate an already confusing bit of writing with exceptions. ”

That's brings back something funny from a couple of weeks ago. A woman suddenly planted her bum on my upper thigh to do a sentada (Woman sits on leaders lap or hip with bended leg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figures...go_sentada.jpg

I must have mis-communicated a lead. Luckily I reacted and shared her weight with my arm around her waist or she could have broken my leg ...
henrywilliams58
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by daziechain:
“You cannot expect a celeb to master an AT in four days .. so it's totally unfair to compare.

Having said that I didn't think much of your example .. it didn't wow me at all.

I admit though ... I know nothing about it or what to look for.”

I am not surprised by that reaction at all. Milonguero style AT is for dancing not watching. Looks like nothing is happening right? It is all micro movements on the inside. Bliss.

Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“ ...

But since you have raised the point I am curious Henry. What is it about this clip and this couple, of all the examples on the net, that makes it your number 1 pick?”

Think ducks gliding over water and it is all happening under water / between the couple for themselves and not for viewers. I really chose it not only because Milonguero style is the way I like to dance but also for the contrast with the SCD showdance style AT.

A more open embrace (Salon style) will show more perhaps flash and trash movement to viewers.

I'll find a few. Most of the youtube clips are Salon style. I was being a bit mischievous as well in posting an extreme Milonguero Style example.
An Thropologist
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by henrywilliams58:
“That's brings back something funny from a couple of weeks ago. A woman suddenly planted her bum on my upper thigh to do a sentada (Woman sits on leaders lap or hip with bended leg)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figures...go_sentada.jpg

I must have mis-communicated a lead. Luckily I reacted and shared her weight with my arm around her waist or she could have broken my leg ...”



Worst dance mishaps is a good idea for a thread.

All mine have been in salsa! OMG just remembering some of them.
daziechain
13-11-2014
Originally Posted by henrywilliams58:
“I am not surprised by that reaction at all. Milonguero style AT is for dancing not watching. Looks like nothing is happening right? It is all micro movements on the inside. Bliss.
Think ducks gliding over water and it is all happening under water / between the couple for themselves and not for viewers. I really chose it not only because that's the way I like to dance but also for the contrast with the SCD showdance style AT.

A more open embrace will show more perhaps flashy movement to viewers.”

You see to me it's like he's trying to push her over and she's trying to resist This is very much an amateurs pov though.

A display like that .. by a less competent dancer .. would probably fail to connect with the Strictly audience .. subtlety is lost on most of us My fave on Strictly was Kara and Artem's .. though also loved Harry and Aliona's ... thoughts?
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